The Conversation We're NOT Having

[JoeB131]

Didn't use lethal force for anything having to do with the shoplifting. And it wasn't shoplifting but strong-armed robbery. He used his size and strength to physically intimidate the store employee. Another reason a gun should be available for every such employee. Woulda changed things a lot. The officer's righteous use of lethal force came about after Brown assaulted the officer. From that moment onwards, affecting the arrest included the option of lethal force. Running away, hands up, etc. doesn't enter into it. A lot of the tv commentary about this was ignorant of Missouri law.

You mean we are actually surprised that MO has crazy laws that pretty much treat a badge like a human hunting license?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Didn't use lethal force for anything having to do with the shoplifting. And it wasn't shoplifting but strong-armed robbery. He used his size and strength to physically intimidate the store employee. Another reason a gun should be available for every such employee. Woulda changed things a lot. The officer's righteous use of lethal force came about after Brown assaulted the officer. From that moment onwards, affecting the arrest included the option of lethal force. Running away, hands up, etc. doesn't enter into it. A lot of the tv commentary about this was ignorant of Missouri law.

You mean we are actually surprised that MO has crazy laws that pretty much treat a badge like a human hunting license?

Letting good vaniquish evil isn't crazy, it's just. Like 32 other states, Missouri has the quivilent of a 'stand your ground' law and it works for police as well as civilians.

 

[JoeB131]

Letting good vaniquish evil isn't crazy, it's just. Like 32 other states, Missouri has the quivilent of a 'stand your ground' law and it works for police as well as civilians.

I guess I have a different view on Good and Evil here.

Nothing Brown did was worth killing him over. And frankly, if a trained police officer can't handle an unarmed kid without shooting him dead, maybe he shouldn't be a police officer.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Letting good vaniquish evil isn't crazy, it's just. Like 32 other states, Missouri has the quivilent of a 'stand your ground' law and it works for police as well as civilians.

I guess I have a different view on Good and Evil here.

Nothing Brown did was worth killing him over. And frankly, if a trained police officer can't handle an unarmed kid without shooting him dead, maybe he shouldn't be a police officer.

Robbed a store. God killed the whole planet over robbery.

11. Now the earth was corrupt before God, and the earth became full of robbery.
- Bereishit 6
Genesis - Chapter 6 Parshah Bereishit and Noach - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

 

[JoeB131]

Robbed a store. God killed the whole planet over robbery.

God doesn't exist, and the Flood is a myth.

God also killed people for eating the wrong food, working on the wrong day, having the wrong kind of sex with the wrong people, and a bunch of other things.

So no, i don't think we need Officer Fife going around killing people because they stole a handful of cheap cigars.

Otherwise, I think we need to put a higher priority on the Bankers and Brokers who stole BILLIONS in the Crash of 2008.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Looking up the Genesis quote above, I'm struck with how the rationale God gives Noah for the Flood is all the robbery and violence filling the world. Kinda like how it is right now. And with cliate change, icecaps melting, and rising sea levels, it seems eerily familar.

 

[JoeB131]

Looking up the Genesis quote above, I'm struck with how the rationale God gives Noah for the Flood is all the robbery and violence filling the world. Kinda like how it is right now. And with cliate change, icecaps melting, and rising sea levels, it seems eerily familar.

6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

He doesn't specify "robbery" or "Violence".

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Looking up the Genesis quote above, I'm struck with how the rationale God gives Noah for the Flood is all the robbery and violence filling the world. Kinda like how it is right now. And with cliate change, icecaps melting, and rising sea levels, it seems eerily familar.

6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

He doesn't specify "robbery" or "Violence".

Does in an actual Torah as linked above. Bibles don't translate reliably well.

 

[JoeB131]

Does in an actual Torah as linked above. Bibles don't translate reliably well

I'm going with the King James Version. Because that was the one God totally wanted, really.

 

[R.D.]

.
.
.

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist?

You blew your entire post with that ONE statement. With that one statement, you revealed your own racism and cynicism. Ain't it a bitch when you think you've writing the perfect OP and then you blow it by adding your own racism, but you don't even realize that you've done it? Maaaaan... what a bitch...

I don't agree with your total thoughts, but I see he did hedge.

In the conversation he wants that sentiment doesn't actually exist

 

[dannyboys]

The negro race world wide is failing. It's imploding on itself in every way.
Nobody and no 'social programs' are ever going to help. They never have in the past.
No amount of money will help. It never has.
Now that life has become very 'dog-eat-dog' in every aspect of life only the smartest will survive.
The myth that if only the 'Makers' would pony up more money to be dumped down the inner city shitholes then the negroes would magically be able to improve their lot in life was a fucking wet-dream for LIB White-quilt soccer moms and race whores like Sharpton and LIB 'pyjama-boys'.
Are negroes who father a dozen kids suddenly going be act responsibly?
Is the general IQ of negroes suddenly going to increase barely above those with 'Special Needs'?
Are the thugs and gang-bangers suddenly going to literally pull their fucking pants up and do whatever it takes to live decent peaceful hard working lives while facing their responsibilities as men?
A decade from now the inner cities will still be jammed with negroes who are not capable of helping themselves and the other races will have 'moved on' from trying to help those who can not help themselves.
It's social Darwinism and it exists within every species on the planet. Why humans should think their species is immune to the laws of nature is a joke.

 

[Asclepias]

The most troubling thing to me about the whole Ferguson incident is the conversation we're not having and are not going to have.As racial activists turn Michael Brown into their modern day Emmett Till and imply that virtually any white police officer who shoots a black man for any reason is an intolerant racist who simply wanted to kill blacks, the real problems remain unaddressed. It is a symptom of a society which has jumped the tracks of civil discourse and has begun to devour itself from within.

People can second guess Officer Darren Wilson's choices all day long. It is regretful that Michael Brown is dead, but the choices which led to that are not solely on Officer Wilson. Numerous choices which were made by others long before that fateful incident are simply being ignored. We can't even have a rational level-headed conversation about them without someone inferring racism. The racial activists have so stigmatized this case that you can either assume the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture in solidarity or you're a deplorable racist bigot. All other conversations have been squelched and silenced. This, above all else, is to our own detriment as a civil society and the price will be paid.

It was not Officer Wilson who made the choice to impregnate Brown's mother and leave her to raise as son by herself. Officer Wilson did not deprive Micheal of a decent moral upbringing by a father who cared enough about his son to teach him proper behavior and respect for authority. Officer Wilson did not make that choice to abandon his responsibility as a parent to Micheal Brown. These choices were made long before Wilson ever came into the picture, but we can't have that conversation now.

We also can't have the conversation about how left-wing liberal policies have failed our education system or created dismal employment prospects for people of Brown's generation. No, that's all off the table now. Even though these choices played a role and ultimately led to the incident in question. We can't have the conversation about gangs and gangsters who have essentially taken control of the streets in many cities across America. We can't talk about the black-on-black violence that has become part of everyday life in ethnic urban America. No, you see, this would take too much away from the "racist white cops" narrative.

See, it's far too important to the race baiters and activists that we instill this insidious idea in the minds of America that we have a "racist white cop" problem. This has gone on since the Rodney King incident, and perhaps that was a case of racist white cops, but the only way we can deal with such things is by holding individuals accountable when that is the case. What is the alternative? Not to have any white people serve as officers of the law? Have some different standard of law apply to black thugs? Maybe it's to have some group like the Black Panthers handle law enforcement and protect the "rights" of the thugs to be thugs?

Before we resort to such bizarre extremes, it behooves us to examine the "other choices" and see if we can't find some remedies there first. A liberal friend of mine argued that recent psychological studies indicate there is a subconscious 'racism' happening among whites, even when they believe they are not being racist. Whites just tend to naturally discriminate against black people and they can't help it.... that was her argument. Well, if that is the case (which I highly doubt) it's even more the reason to instil the importance in black youth of showing respect for authority and not giving the appearance of confrontation. Why would you want to give a racist reason to kill you?

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist? Well, if the racism is subconscious and the white person can't do anything about it, then what else would be the alternative? Kill whitey? Racism is born from ignorance, we know this for a fact. So, are you better able to educate a racist if you are alive to do so or dead? No offense, but the current conversation we are having which the liberal racial activists are pushing the narrative on, has no clear solution that will work. It simply continues to divide us and cause more racial tension. We must ask, what is the underlying purpose of that?

You must be new to the board. This conversation is running rampant on several threads regardless of topic.

Well, no.... I'm actually not new to the board and it appears I've been here longer than you. I admit that I've not read through the entirety of all the threads but I am not seeing the threads about the topics raised in my OP. I see the conversations about whether Darren Wilson is a racist or whether he should have been indicted. I see conversations about what "other options" he may have taken. I see conversations about Michael Brown's civil rights. I see plenty of conversations about the evidence heard by the Grand Jury. But nope... not seeing the conversations about the alarming number of single-parent black youth, responsibility of black fathers, black-on-black crime, gangs and gangsters, the ever-failing liberal education system and lack of opportunity for minorities.

And I hate to break this to ya, but this board isn't a national conversation. We represent a very thin slice of the general public who have internet access and congregate at this site to bloviate about politics and such. So even IF the conversation has happened here, it's not what the OP is talking about. But you're not really here to have a conversation anyway, are you? This is your platform for denigrating others so you can feel good about yourself. I suspect the last thing in the world you would be interested in is an actual intelligent and objective conversation. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that at any time.

I don't know what threads you are reading but in most threads the topic eventually dissolves into the very points your OP is making. I realize this is not a national conversation. Were did you get the idea I thought it was? The issue I have with your points and you wanting to have a conversation is that you are not talking about the flip side. You are discussing issues in the Black community but ignoring the issues in the white community that have a direct effect on said issues in the Black community. You also are ignoring the issue the white community has regardless of Black people. You have drug issues. You have violence issues. You have depression and suicide issues. When you try to start a conversation with an air of superiority you cut all lines of communication.When you automatically assume that your desire to start a conversation is reciprocated then you insult. My stance is that unless you come to the table with the humble intention of listening to learn instead of talking to reprimand, then you like many others are only going to cause more problems between the races at worst or maintain the status quo at best..

 

[Boss]

.

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist?

You blew your entire post with that ONE statement. With that one statement, you revealed your own racism and cynicism. Ain't it a bitch when you think you've writing the perfect OP and then you blow it by adding your own racism, but you don't even realize that you've done it? Maaaaan... what a bitch...

Well it wasn't a statement, it was a question I assumed might be asked by some. If you can't follow a conversation why do you get involved in them? I'm not being cynical, perhaps I am being rhetorical? I am certainly not being racist and I don't see where anyone could derive such a thing from my post. But thank you for your opinion anyway.

 

[007]

.

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist?

You blew your entire post with that ONE statement. With that one statement, you revealed your own racism and cynicism. Ain't it a bitch when you think you've writing the perfect OP and then you blow it by adding your own racism, but you don't even realize that you've done it? Maaaaan... what a bitch...

Well it wasn't a statement, it was a question I assumed might be asked by some. If you can't follow a conversation why do you get involved in them? I'm not being cynical, perhaps I am being rhetorical? I am certainly not being racist and I don't see where anyone could derive such a thing from my post. But thank you for your opinion anyway.

If you can't write an OP without using blatantly racist comments, why do you think people will actually take you seriously?

 

[Boss]

The most troubling thing to me about the whole Ferguson incident is the conversation we're not having and are not going to have.As racial activists turn Michael Brown into their modern day Emmett Till and imply that virtually any white police officer who shoots a black man for any reason is an intolerant racist who simply wanted to kill blacks, the real problems remain unaddressed. It is a symptom of a society which has jumped the tracks of civil discourse and has begun to devour itself from within.

People can second guess Officer Darren Wilson's choices all day long. It is regretful that Michael Brown is dead, but the choices which led to that are not solely on Officer Wilson. Numerous choices which were made by others long before that fateful incident are simply being ignored. We can't even have a rational level-headed conversation about them without someone inferring racism. The racial activists have so stigmatized this case that you can either assume the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture in solidarity or you're a deplorable racist bigot. All other conversations have been squelched and silenced. This, above all else, is to our own detriment as a civil society and the price will be paid.

It was not Officer Wilson who made the choice to impregnate Brown's mother and leave her to raise as son by herself. Officer Wilson did not deprive Micheal of a decent moral upbringing by a father who cared enough about his son to teach him proper behavior and respect for authority. Officer Wilson did not make that choice to abandon his responsibility as a parent to Micheal Brown. These choices were made long before Wilson ever came into the picture, but we can't have that conversation now.

We also can't have the conversation about how left-wing liberal policies have failed our education system or created dismal employment prospects for people of Brown's generation. No, that's all off the table now. Even though these choices played a role and ultimately led to the incident in question. We can't have the conversation about gangs and gangsters who have essentially taken control of the streets in many cities across America. We can't talk about the black-on-black violence that has become part of everyday life in ethnic urban America. No, you see, this would take too much away from the "racist white cops" narrative.

See, it's far too important to the race baiters and activists that we instill this insidious idea in the minds of America that we have a "racist white cop" problem. This has gone on since the Rodney King incident, and perhaps that was a case of racist white cops, but the only way we can deal with such things is by holding individuals accountable when that is the case. What is the alternative? Not to have any white people serve as officers of the law? Have some different standard of law apply to black thugs? Maybe it's to have some group like the Black Panthers handle law enforcement and protect the "rights" of the thugs to be thugs?

Before we resort to such bizarre extremes, it behooves us to examine the "other choices" and see if we can't find some remedies there first. A liberal friend of mine argued that recent psychological studies indicate there is a subconscious 'racism' happening among whites, even when they believe they are not being racist. Whites just tend to naturally discriminate against black people and they can't help it.... that was her argument. Well, if that is the case (which I highly doubt) it's even more the reason to instil the importance in black youth of showing respect for authority and not giving the appearance of confrontation. Why would you want to give a racist reason to kill you?

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist? Well, if the racism is subconscious and the white person can't do anything about it, then what else would be the alternative? Kill whitey? Racism is born from ignorance, we know this for a fact. So, are you better able to educate a racist if you are alive to do so or dead? No offense, but the current conversation we are having which the liberal racial activists are pushing the narrative on, has no clear solution that will work. It simply continues to divide us and cause more racial tension. We must ask, what is the underlying purpose of that?

You must be new to the board. This conversation is running rampant on several threads regardless of topic.

Well, no.... I'm actually not new to the board and it appears I've been here longer than you. I admit that I've not read through the entirety of all the threads but I am not seeing the threads about the topics raised in my OP. I see the conversations about whether Darren Wilson is a racist or whether he should have been indicted. I see conversations about what "other options" he may have taken. I see conversations about Michael Brown's civil rights. I see plenty of conversations about the evidence heard by the Grand Jury. But nope... not seeing the conversations about the alarming number of single-parent black youth, responsibility of black fathers, black-on-black crime, gangs and gangsters, the ever-failing liberal education system and lack of opportunity for minorities.

And I hate to break this to ya, but this board isn't a national conversation. We represent a very thin slice of the general public who have internet access and congregate at this site to bloviate about politics and such. So even IF the conversation has happened here, it's not what the OP is talking about. But you're not really here to have a conversation anyway, are you? This is your platform for denigrating others so you can feel good about yourself. I suspect the last thing in the world you would be interested in is an actual intelligent and objective conversation. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that at any time.

I don't know what threads you are reading but in most threads the topic eventually dissolves into the very points your OP is making. I realize this is not a national conversation. Were did you get the idea I thought it was? The issue I have with your points and you wanting to have a conversation is that you are not talking about the flip side. You are discussing issues in the Black community but ignoring the issues in the white community that have a direct effect on said issues in the Black community. You also are ignoring the issue the white community has regardless of Black people. You have drug issues. You have violence issues. You have depression and suicide issues. When you try to start a conversation with an air of superiority you cut all lines of communication.When you automatically assume that your desire to start a conversation is reciprocated then you insult. My stance is that unless you come to the table with the humble intention of listening to learn instead of talking to reprimand, then you like many others are only going to cause more problems between the races at worst or maintain the status quo at best..

We've already established I am reading the threads on this board. I've also not avoided discussing any relative problems in the white community which lead to problems in the black community and you are free to explain what whites are doing to cause blacks to spawn one generation after another of fatherless children, promote gangs and gangsters through cultural glorification, or develop a seething disrespect for law enforcement. It would be interesting to hear your take on what the white community is doing to cause these things in the black community.

Simply stating there are drug, suicide, depression and violence issues is not telling us much. It's not an "air of superiority" to presume these things are not the fault of the white community, you need to explain how they are if that's what you believe. I personally believe these are problems which transcend racial boundaries and are ultimately the responsibility of the individual.

I also don't feel I am obligated to come to the table with a humble intention of listening and not talking, as that is not a conversation or how conversations work. I'm not here to fix the problems between races. I am pointing out how we're not having the conversation we should be having in light of Ferguson. And I am not talking about the conversation on this board but rather the nation as a whole.

 

[Boss]

.

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist?

You blew your entire post with that ONE statement. With that one statement, you revealed your own racism and cynicism. Ain't it a bitch when you think you've writing the perfect OP and then you blow it by adding your own racism, but you don't even realize that you've done it? Maaaaan... what a bitch...

Well it wasn't a statement, it was a question I assumed might be asked by some. If you can't follow a conversation why do you get involved in them? I'm not being cynical, perhaps I am being rhetorical? I am certainly not being racist and I don't see where anyone could derive such a thing from my post. But thank you for your opinion anyway.

If you can't write an OP without using blatantly racist comments, why do you think people will actually take you seriously?

This is now the 2nd time you've called my posts racist without indicating what exactly you mean. Until you can reasonably articulate what you mean, I can only assume you've misinterpreted something. I can assure you, there is absolutely no racist intention in anything I've posted. I can't read your mind, so I can't address whatever is stuck in your craw.

 

[Asclepias]

The most troubling thing to me about the whole Ferguson incident is the conversation we're not having and are not going to have.As racial activists turn Michael Brown into their modern day Emmett Till and imply that virtually any white police officer who shoots a black man for any reason is an intolerant racist who simply wanted to kill blacks, the real problems remain unaddressed. It is a symptom of a society which has jumped the tracks of civil discourse and has begun to devour itself from within.

People can second guess Officer Darren Wilson's choices all day long. It is regretful that Michael Brown is dead, but the choices which led to that are not solely on Officer Wilson. Numerous choices which were made by others long before that fateful incident are simply being ignored. We can't even have a rational level-headed conversation about them without someone inferring racism. The racial activists have so stigmatized this case that you can either assume the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture in solidarity or you're a deplorable racist bigot. All other conversations have been squelched and silenced. This, above all else, is to our own detriment as a civil society and the price will be paid.

It was not Officer Wilson who made the choice to impregnate Brown's mother and leave her to raise as son by herself. Officer Wilson did not deprive Micheal of a decent moral upbringing by a father who cared enough about his son to teach him proper behavior and respect for authority. Officer Wilson did not make that choice to abandon his responsibility as a parent to Micheal Brown. These choices were made long before Wilson ever came into the picture, but we can't have that conversation now.

We also can't have the conversation about how left-wing liberal policies have failed our education system or created dismal employment prospects for people of Brown's generation. No, that's all off the table now. Even though these choices played a role and ultimately led to the incident in question. We can't have the conversation about gangs and gangsters who have essentially taken control of the streets in many cities across America. We can't talk about the black-on-black violence that has become part of everyday life in ethnic urban America. No, you see, this would take too much away from the "racist white cops" narrative.

See, it's far too important to the race baiters and activists that we instill this insidious idea in the minds of America that we have a "racist white cop" problem. This has gone on since the Rodney King incident, and perhaps that was a case of racist white cops, but the only way we can deal with such things is by holding individuals accountable when that is the case. What is the alternative? Not to have any white people serve as officers of the law? Have some different standard of law apply to black thugs? Maybe it's to have some group like the Black Panthers handle law enforcement and protect the "rights" of the thugs to be thugs?

Before we resort to such bizarre extremes, it behooves us to examine the "other choices" and see if we can't find some remedies there first. A liberal friend of mine argued that recent psychological studies indicate there is a subconscious 'racism' happening among whites, even when they believe they are not being racist. Whites just tend to naturally discriminate against black people and they can't help it.... that was her argument. Well, if that is the case (which I highly doubt) it's even more the reason to instil the importance in black youth of showing respect for authority and not giving the appearance of confrontation. Why would you want to give a racist reason to kill you?

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist? Well, if the racism is subconscious and the white person can't do anything about it, then what else would be the alternative? Kill whitey? Racism is born from ignorance, we know this for a fact. So, are you better able to educate a racist if you are alive to do so or dead? No offense, but the current conversation we are having which the liberal racial activists are pushing the narrative on, has no clear solution that will work. It simply continues to divide us and cause more racial tension. We must ask, what is the underlying purpose of that?

You must be new to the board. This conversation is running rampant on several threads regardless of topic.

Well, no.... I'm actually not new to the board and it appears I've been here longer than you. I admit that I've not read through the entirety of all the threads but I am not seeing the threads about the topics raised in my OP. I see the conversations about whether Darren Wilson is a racist or whether he should have been indicted. I see conversations about what "other options" he may have taken. I see conversations about Michael Brown's civil rights. I see plenty of conversations about the evidence heard by the Grand Jury. But nope... not seeing the conversations about the alarming number of single-parent black youth, responsibility of black fathers, black-on-black crime, gangs and gangsters, the ever-failing liberal education system and lack of opportunity for minorities.

And I hate to break this to ya, but this board isn't a national conversation. We represent a very thin slice of the general public who have internet access and congregate at this site to bloviate about politics and such. So even IF the conversation has happened here, it's not what the OP is talking about. But you're not really here to have a conversation anyway, are you? This is your platform for denigrating others so you can feel good about yourself. I suspect the last thing in the world you would be interested in is an actual intelligent and objective conversation. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that at any time.

I don't know what threads you are reading but in most threads the topic eventually dissolves into the very points your OP is making. I realize this is not a national conversation. Were did you get the idea I thought it was? The issue I have with your points and you wanting to have a conversation is that you are not talking about the flip side. You are discussing issues in the Black community but ignoring the issues in the white community that have a direct effect on said issues in the Black community. You also are ignoring the issue the white community has regardless of Black people. You have drug issues. You have violence issues. You have depression and suicide issues. When you try to start a conversation with an air of superiority you cut all lines of communication.When you automatically assume that your desire to start a conversation is reciprocated then you insult. My stance is that unless you come to the table with the humble intention of listening to learn instead of talking to reprimand, then you like many others are only going to cause more problems between the races at worst or maintain the status quo at best..

We've already established I am reading the threads on this board. I've also not avoided discussing any relative problems in the white community which lead to problems in the black community and you are free to explain what whites are doing to cause blacks to spawn one generation after another of fatherless children, promote gangs and gangsters through cultural glorification, or develop a seething disrespect for law enforcement. It would be interesting to hear your take on what the white community is doing to cause these things in the black community.

Simply stating there are drug, suicide, depression and violence issues is not telling us much. It's not an "air of superiority" to presume these things are not the fault of the white community, you need to explain how they are if that's what you believe. I personally believe these are problems which transcend racial boundaries and are ultimately the responsibility of the individual.

I also don't feel I am obligated to come to the table with a humble intention of listening and not talking, as that is not a conversation or how conversations work. I'm not here to fix the problems between races. I am pointing out how we're not having the conversation we should be having in light of Ferguson. And I am not talking about the conversation on this board but rather the nation as a whole.

Your last paragraph renders your thread as a series of tired, over expressed statements. Basically you are just making the same statements others have made millions of times in other threads. If you believe that having a conversation is not a exercise in listening then no matter how much you talk you are a piss poor communicator. Now that you have explained this I see your intentions are merely to hear yourself talk. Thats one of the reasons we arent having conversations on this site or nationally.

 

[Boss]

The most troubling thing to me about the whole Ferguson incident is the conversation we're not having and are not going to have.As racial activists turn Michael Brown into their modern day Emmett Till and imply that virtually any white police officer who shoots a black man for any reason is an intolerant racist who simply wanted to kill blacks, the real problems remain unaddressed. It is a symptom of a society which has jumped the tracks of civil discourse and has begun to devour itself from within.

People can second guess Officer Darren Wilson's choices all day long. It is regretful that Michael Brown is dead, but the choices which led to that are not solely on Officer Wilson. Numerous choices which were made by others long before that fateful incident are simply being ignored. We can't even have a rational level-headed conversation about them without someone inferring racism. The racial activists have so stigmatized this case that you can either assume the "hands up, don't shoot" gesture in solidarity or you're a deplorable racist bigot. All other conversations have been squelched and silenced. This, above all else, is to our own detriment as a civil society and the price will be paid.

It was not Officer Wilson who made the choice to impregnate Brown's mother and leave her to raise as son by herself. Officer Wilson did not deprive Micheal of a decent moral upbringing by a father who cared enough about his son to teach him proper behavior and respect for authority. Officer Wilson did not make that choice to abandon his responsibility as a parent to Micheal Brown. These choices were made long before Wilson ever came into the picture, but we can't have that conversation now.

We also can't have the conversation about how left-wing liberal policies have failed our education system or created dismal employment prospects for people of Brown's generation. No, that's all off the table now. Even though these choices played a role and ultimately led to the incident in question. We can't have the conversation about gangs and gangsters who have essentially taken control of the streets in many cities across America. We can't talk about the black-on-black violence that has become part of everyday life in ethnic urban America. No, you see, this would take too much away from the "racist white cops" narrative.

See, it's far too important to the race baiters and activists that we instill this insidious idea in the minds of America that we have a "racist white cop" problem. This has gone on since the Rodney King incident, and perhaps that was a case of racist white cops, but the only way we can deal with such things is by holding individuals accountable when that is the case. What is the alternative? Not to have any white people serve as officers of the law? Have some different standard of law apply to black thugs? Maybe it's to have some group like the Black Panthers handle law enforcement and protect the "rights" of the thugs to be thugs?

Before we resort to such bizarre extremes, it behooves us to examine the "other choices" and see if we can't find some remedies there first. A liberal friend of mine argued that recent psychological studies indicate there is a subconscious 'racism' happening among whites, even when they believe they are not being racist. Whites just tend to naturally discriminate against black people and they can't help it.... that was her argument. Well, if that is the case (which I highly doubt) it's even more the reason to instil the importance in black youth of showing respect for authority and not giving the appearance of confrontation. Why would you want to give a racist reason to kill you?

Now, some will say, why should blacks have to behave a certain way to keep from being killed by a racist? Well, if the racism is subconscious and the white person can't do anything about it, then what else would be the alternative? Kill whitey? Racism is born from ignorance, we know this for a fact. So, are you better able to educate a racist if you are alive to do so or dead? No offense, but the current conversation we are having which the liberal racial activists are pushing the narrative on, has no clear solution that will work. It simply continues to divide us and cause more racial tension. We must ask, what is the underlying purpose of that?

You must be new to the board. This conversation is running rampant on several threads regardless of topic.

Well, no.... I'm actually not new to the board and it appears I've been here longer than you. I admit that I've not read through the entirety of all the threads but I am not seeing the threads about the topics raised in my OP. I see the conversations about whether Darren Wilson is a racist or whether he should have been indicted. I see conversations about what "other options" he may have taken. I see conversations about Michael Brown's civil rights. I see plenty of conversations about the evidence heard by the Grand Jury. But nope... not seeing the conversations about the alarming number of single-parent black youth, responsibility of black fathers, black-on-black crime, gangs and gangsters, the ever-failing liberal education system and lack of opportunity for minorities.

And I hate to break this to ya, but this board isn't a national conversation. We represent a very thin slice of the general public who have internet access and congregate at this site to bloviate about politics and such. So even IF the conversation has happened here, it's not what the OP is talking about. But you're not really here to have a conversation anyway, are you? This is your platform for denigrating others so you can feel good about yourself. I suspect the last thing in the world you would be interested in is an actual intelligent and objective conversation. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that at any time.

I don't know what threads you are reading but in most threads the topic eventually dissolves into the very points your OP is making. I realize this is not a national conversation. Were did you get the idea I thought it was? The issue I have with your points and you wanting to have a conversation is that you are not talking about the flip side. You are discussing issues in the Black community but ignoring the issues in the white community that have a direct effect on said issues in the Black community. You also are ignoring the issue the white community has regardless of Black people. You have drug issues. You have violence issues. You have depression and suicide issues. When you try to start a conversation with an air of superiority you cut all lines of communication.When you automatically assume that your desire to start a conversation is reciprocated then you insult. My stance is that unless you come to the table with the humble intention of listening to learn instead of talking to reprimand, then you like many others are only going to cause more problems between the races at worst or maintain the status quo at best..

We've already established I am reading the threads on this board. I've also not avoided discussing any relative problems in the white community which lead to problems in the black community and you are free to explain what whites are doing to cause blacks to spawn one generation after another of fatherless children, promote gangs and gangsters through cultural glorification, or develop a seething disrespect for law enforcement. It would be interesting to hear your take on what the white community is doing to cause these things in the black community.

Simply stating there are drug, suicide, depression and violence issues is not telling us much. It's not an "air of superiority" to presume these things are not the fault of the white community, you need to explain how they are if that's what you believe. I personally believe these are problems which transcend racial boundaries and are ultimately the responsibility of the individual.

I also don't feel I am obligated to come to the table with a humble intention of listening and not talking, as that is not a conversation or how conversations work. I'm not here to fix the problems between races. I am pointing out how we're not having the conversation we should be having in light of Ferguson. And I am not talking about the conversation on this board but rather the nation as a whole.

Your last paragraph renders your thread as a series of tired, over expressed statements. Basically you are just making the same statements others have made millions of times in other threads. If you believe that having a conversation is not a exercise in listening then no matter how much you talk you are a piss poor communicator. Now that you have explained this I see your intentions are merely to hear yourself talk. Thats one of the reasons we arent having conversations on this site or nationally.

Having a conversation is not an exercise in listening, it is an exercise in communicating which involves both listening and speaking. It involves all parties doing both because we aren't having a conversation if all we are doing is listening. If I am humbly listening and you are speaking, then I am hearing a lecture. I have no problem hearing lectures on topics that interest me, but that is not a conversation and should never be confused as one.

Also... I am not interested in your critique of my OP. If you don't like it you don't have to read it, but I didn't write it for your approval.

 

[Asclepias]

You must be new to the board. This conversation is running rampant on several threads regardless of topic.

Well, no.... I'm actually not new to the board and it appears I've been here longer than you. I admit that I've not read through the entirety of all the threads but I am not seeing the threads about the topics raised in my OP. I see the conversations about whether Darren Wilson is a racist or whether he should have been indicted. I see conversations about what "other options" he may have taken. I see conversations about Michael Brown's civil rights. I see plenty of conversations about the evidence heard by the Grand Jury. But nope... not seeing the conversations about the alarming number of single-parent black youth, responsibility of black fathers, black-on-black crime, gangs and gangsters, the ever-failing liberal education system and lack of opportunity for minorities.

And I hate to break this to ya, but this board isn't a national conversation. We represent a very thin slice of the general public who have internet access and congregate at this site to bloviate about politics and such. So even IF the conversation has happened here, it's not what the OP is talking about. But you're not really here to have a conversation anyway, are you? This is your platform for denigrating others so you can feel good about yourself. I suspect the last thing in the world you would be interested in is an actual intelligent and objective conversation. You're welcome to prove me wrong on that at any time.

I don't know what threads you are reading but in most threads the topic eventually dissolves into the very points your OP is making. I realize this is not a national conversation. Were did you get the idea I thought it was? The issue I have with your points and you wanting to have a conversation is that you are not talking about the flip side. You are discussing issues in the Black community but ignoring the issues in the white community that have a direct effect on said issues in the Black community. You also are ignoring the issue the white community has regardless of Black people. You have drug issues. You have violence issues. You have depression and suicide issues. When you try to start a conversation with an air of superiority you cut all lines of communication.When you automatically assume that your desire to start a conversation is reciprocated then you insult. My stance is that unless you come to the table with the humble intention of listening to learn instead of talking to reprimand, then you like many others are only going to cause more problems between the races at worst or maintain the status quo at best..

We've already established I am reading the threads on this board. I've also not avoided discussing any relative problems in the white community which lead to problems in the black community and you are free to explain what whites are doing to cause blacks to spawn one generation after another of fatherless children, promote gangs and gangsters through cultural glorification, or develop a seething disrespect for law enforcement. It would be interesting to hear your take on what the white community is doing to cause these things in the black community.

Simply stating there are drug, suicide, depression and violence issues is not telling us much. It's not an "air of superiority" to presume these things are not the fault of the white community, you need to explain how they are if that's what you believe. I personally believe these are problems which transcend racial boundaries and are ultimately the responsibility of the individual.

I also don't feel I am obligated to come to the table with a humble intention of listening and not talking, as that is not a conversation or how conversations work. I'm not here to fix the problems between races. I am pointing out how we're not having the conversation we should be having in light of Ferguson. And I am not talking about the conversation on this board but rather the nation as a whole.

Your last paragraph renders your thread as a series of tired, over expressed statements. Basically you are just making the same statements others have made millions of times in other threads. If you believe that having a conversation is not a exercise in listening then no matter how much you talk you are a piss poor communicator. Now that you have explained this I see your intentions are merely to hear yourself talk. Thats one of the reasons we arent having conversations on this site or nationally.

Having a conversation is not an exercise in listening, it is an exercise in communicating which involves both listening and speaking. It involves all parties doing both because we aren't having a conversation if all we are doing is listening. If I am humbly listening and you are speaking, then I am hearing a lecture. I have no problem hearing lectures on topics that interest me, but that is not a conversation and should never be confused as one.

Also... I am not interested in your critique of my OP. If you don't like it you don't have to read it, but I didn't write it for your approval.

Too many experts in the subject of conversations disagree with you. The biggest requirement for conversations is the skill of listening. Anyone that has ever risen above the level of common day laborer knows this.

Challenge 1 Deep Listening -- Empathy in Action

"Listen first and acknowledge what you hear, even if you don’t agree with it, before expressing your experience or point of view . In order to get more of your conversation partner’s attention in tense situations, pay attention first: listen and give a brief restatement of what you have heard (especially feelings) before you express your own needs or position. "

I never said you were interested or searching for approval. I didnt care if you were interested or not. i was going to make a critique of your OP since you posted it. If you felt my statement required your interest you may want to rethink why you assume anyone cares what you are interested in.

 

[Gracie]

Da Boss Rocks.