The Death of a Presidency

[JoeB131]

You would agree that something that never happened proves you right?

The Pharisees were actually trying to get Jesus to openly commit treason by saying that giving tribute to Caesar was wrong. When the Pharisees demanded the Temple Tax from Jesus he used it as an opportunity to teach his disciples a lesson, and told Peter to go fishing and get the tax from the mouth of the first fish he caught.

What does the fact that it never happened prove? Remember when I told you you weren't smart enough to use the Bible to defend your position? You really should have listened.

Okay, here are the bible verses about that incident.

Matthew Chapter 22

Nothing about Magic Fish with Coins.

SAB, Mark 12

Sorry, still no magic fishies...

SAB, Luke 20

Nope, no magic fishies there, either.

And the story isn't even mentioned in John. So there you go.

In fact, all three accounts (which are really just Matt and Luke plagarizing from poor Mark) have Jesus getting into a discussion with the Sadduces about whether there is an afterlife and who gets a woman who was widowed multiple times.

Still stupid I see.

The funniest part is none of those are about the temple tax, which makes you look even dumber than I thought you were.

This is where I kind of doubt your intelligence and sanity. Just go with ONE of them.

22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


Sorry, it was about the Temple Tax. There were no Magic Fishies with coins in them.

 

[The T]

Okay, here are the bible verses about that incident.

Matthew Chapter 22

Nothing about Magic Fish with Coins.

SAB, Mark 12

Sorry, still no magic fishies...

SAB, Luke 20

Nope, no magic fishies there, either.

And the story isn't even mentioned in John. So there you go.

In fact, all three accounts (which are really just Matt and Luke plagarizing from poor Mark) have Jesus getting into a discussion with the Sadduces about whether there is an afterlife and who gets a woman who was widowed multiple times.

Still stupid I see.

The funniest part is none of those are about the temple tax, which makes you look even dumber than I thought you were.

This is where I kind of doubt your intelligence and sanity. Just go with ONE of them.

22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


Sorry, it was about the Temple Tax. There were no Magic Fishies with coins in them.

Odd how a known Commie quotes the Bible as if he knew and belived what was in it in the first stead.

Give up Joey. You are a phony, and your intent is widely known. NO SALE.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How do you propose to have a nation if you can't force anyone to do anything?

How do you propose to have a nation when you force anyone to do anything?

Think about it.

He has ZERO concept of Liberty, Freedom.

Ok, you tell us how you raise an army to defend this nation without forcing anyone to pay taxes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Frankly, we should also stop mandating that EVERY insurance policy has to cover EVERY damned thing under the sun. Let insurance companies have more room to innovate and tailor policies to what the consumers actually WANT to have. If a healthy 24-year-old wants to get just catastrophic coverage, fine. Make that available. We live in a nation of 300 million people, and I will never for the life of me understand why leftists think they were all stamped out by cookie cutters in a factory somewhere, and therefore all want, need, and like the same things.

Insurance companies are in the business of giving you the least amount of coverage for the most amount of premium they can wring out of you. They need to be regulated with an iron fist.

In fact, there is really no need for a for profit health insurance industry. All health insurance, whether private or public, should be run on a mandate to break even, and nothing more.

Much in the way credit unions or electric cooperatives run.

How insanely ignorant.... insurance is a product like any else. They are in the business of offering competitive products at competitive rates. Yes, they have constraints and as such so limit coverages. However, when the state gets involved and starts mandating that they cover everything from pre-existing conditions to condoms, the price will rise.. dramatically.

How much would your car insurance cost you if you could buy a broken down jalopy, then purchase insurance that covers pre-existing damages all the way from body work to engine overhaul?

So...the pre-existing conditions guy who loses his job and his insurance with it, is what,

fucked? Tough luck you drew the short straw?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
God loves a cheerful giver. Emphasis on 'cheerful.' Someone who is being forced to give at the point of a gun is not cheerful and is therefore not giving God any of the glory. Giving isn't mandatory. You shouldn't force generosity out of people.

How do you propose to have a nation if you can't force anyone to do anything?

How do you propose to have a nation if you can force anyone to do anything?

You amaze me sometimes with the shit that comes out of you...

You want a nation where there is no such thing as law? Seriously? Virtually every law on the books ultimately forces someone to do something they won't do voluntarily.

Show me how that country works.

 

[JoeB131]

Still stupid I see.

The funniest part is none of those are about the temple tax, which makes you look even dumber than I thought you were.

This is where I kind of doubt your intelligence and sanity. Just go with ONE of them.

22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


Sorry, it was about the Temple Tax. There were no Magic Fishies with coins in them.

Odd how a known Commie quotes the Bible as if he knew and belived what was in it in the first stead.

Give up Joey. You are a phony, and your intent is widely known. NO SALE.

Oh, I've made my intent very clear.

Most of you phonies who use the Bible to rationalize your homophobia, greed, misogyny, racism and otherwise bad behavior haven't really read it that close.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and not whine about it.

Period.

He also said the rich should give all they own to the poor if they want to get into heaven.

He didn't say jack about abortion or the gays...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, here are the bible verses about that incident.

Matthew Chapter 22

Nothing about Magic Fish with Coins.

SAB, Mark 12

Sorry, still no magic fishies...

SAB, Luke 20

Nope, no magic fishies there, either.

And the story isn't even mentioned in John. So there you go.

In fact, all three accounts (which are really just Matt and Luke plagarizing from poor Mark) have Jesus getting into a discussion with the Sadduces about whether there is an afterlife and who gets a woman who was widowed multiple times.

Still stupid I see.

The funniest part is none of those are about the temple tax, which makes you look even dumber than I thought you were.

This is where I kind of doubt your intelligence and sanity. Just go with ONE of them.

22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


Sorry, it was about the Temple Tax. There were no Magic Fishies with coins in them.

Damn, even when I point out what you are doing wqrong, you keep doing it.

Let me walk you through this.

This is the post I responded to.

I would argue that Jesus saying "Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's" when the pharisees were whinging about paying the Temple Tax would be that.

Notice the part where you said they were whinging about the Temple Tax? Recall how I pointed out they weren't talking about the Temple Tax at that point, but about the tribute to Caesar?

This is the story about the Temple Tax, which is in Mathew 17:24-27

The Temple Tax

24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”
25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.
When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own children or from others?”
26 “From others,” Peter answered.
“Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him. 27 “But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

​

Did you notice that no one said anything about rendering unto Caesar? Did you see the part about going fishing and finding a coin in the mouth of a fish? Do you see why you shouldn't be using the Bible to make a point when you aren't smart enough to keep the stories straight?

Which brings me to my question that, since what you are using to justify your position DID NOT HAPPEN the way you claim, what did you just prove?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is where I kind of doubt your intelligence and sanity. Just go with ONE of them.

22:15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
22:16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. 22:22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.


Sorry, it was about the Temple Tax. There were no Magic Fishies with coins in them.

Odd how a known Commie quotes the Bible as if he knew and belived what was in it in the first stead.

Give up Joey. You are a phony, and your intent is widely known. NO SALE.

Oh, I've made my intent very clear.

Most of you phonies who use the Bible to rationalize your homophobia, greed, misogyny, racism and otherwise bad behavior haven't really read it that close.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and not whine about it.

Period.

He also said the rich should give all they own to the poor if they want to get into heaven.

He didn't say jack about abortion or the gays...

I don't use the Bible to rationalize anything, I use it to destroy idiots that think they are smart enough to use it to justify their slamming people that actually read it.

 

[The T]

Odd how a known Commie quotes the Bible as if he knew and belived what was in it in the first stead.

Give up Joey. You are a phony, and your intent is widely known. NO SALE.

Oh, I've made my intent very clear.

Most of you phonies who use the Bible to rationalize your homophobia, greed, misogyny, racism and otherwise bad behavior haven't really read it that close.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and not whine about it.

Period.

He also said the rich should give all they own to the poor if they want to get into heaven.

He didn't say jack about abortion or the gays...

I don't use the Bible to rationalize anything, I use it to destroy idiots that think they are smart enough to use it to justify their slamming people that actually read it.

And Joe is typical of those that use it for political purpose...and far from it's intent. I hope joe knows what will happen to him in the end for doing it. And it won't be nice...I wonder if he will use the same logic with God?

 

[The T]

Oh, and Joey? I know you as a Communist are itching to tell me there is NO GOD...just like your secularist pals belive...if that is so? WHY quote the Bible?

 

[JoeB131]

[

[/INDENT]Did you notice that no one said anything about rendering unto Caesar? Did you see the part about going fishing and finding a coin in the mouth of a fish? Do you see why you shouldn't be using the Bible to make a point when you aren't smart enough to keep the stories straight?

Which brings me to my question that, since what you are using to justify your position DID NOT HAPPEN the way you claim, what did you just prove?

Are you some fucking retard?

You are bringing up a COMPLETELY unrelated story to the one I've been discussing on this thread about how Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....

This is what I've been discussing with other people for TWO DAYS NOW.

Incidently, the King James Bible says,

17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

Not as you portrayed it as a "Temple Tax".


24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”

Wow, that's a pretty big discrepency in translations, isn't it?

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, and Joey? I know you as a Communist are itching to tell me there is NO GOD...just like your secularist pals belive...if that is so? WHY quote the Bible?

Sorry, not eveyone who thinks the working man needs to get a fair shake is a "communist".

There is no God, though.

I quote the bible because you have people like you and Quantum Needshismeds who probably have no idea what is actually in there. Or at least are working from weird translations.

 

[The T]

Oh, and Joey? I know you as a Communist are itching to tell me there is NO GOD...just like your secularist pals belive...if that is so? WHY quote the Bible?

Sorry, not eveyone who thinks the working man needs to get a fair shake is a "communist".

There is no God, though.

I quote the bible because you have people like you and Quantum Needshismeds who probably have no idea what is actually in there. Or at least are working from weird translations.

As I thought. WHY quote the bible if you don't belive Mr. Stalin? Son? Are you in for the shock of your life...or afterlife...and there is no escape for you unless you have a change of heart...I feel sorry for you.

And don't say you weren't warned.

 

[JoeB131]

[And Joe is typical of those that use it for political purpose...and far from it's intent. I hope joe knows what will happen to him in the end for doing it. And it won't be nice...I wonder if he will use the same logic with God?

You know what, you guys have been killing each other for thousands of years over what the Sky Pixie and the Naked Guy on a Stick really meant in the bible.

And God didn't say boo about it.

I refuse to believe the universe is so badly designed that the malignant diety of the Bible is actually in charge.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, and Joey? I know you as a Communist are itching to tell me there is NO GOD...just like your secularist pals belive...if that is so? WHY quote the Bible?

Sorry, not eveyone who thinks the working man needs to get a fair shake is a "communist".

There is no God, though.

I quote the bible because you have people like you and Quantum Needshismeds who probably have no idea what is actually in there. Or at least are working from weird translations.

As I thought. WHY quote the bible if you don't belive Mr. Stalin? Son? Are you in for the shock of your life...or afterlife...and there is no escape for you unless you have a change of heart...I feel sorry for you.

And don't say you weren't warned.

Any God who would send Ann Frank to Hell and Jeffrey Dahmner to heaven isn't worthy of anyone's worship.

 

[Zoom-boing]

By Templar Kormac

Still, Obama remained undeterred, unblemished. He had the entire media behind him, he could do no wrong. There was so much momentum from the passage of the law that it seemed as if Obama would be the proverbial Democratic version of Ronald Reagan. Obama appeared to be invincible. Nobody could stop him. But after all those years of broken promises and scandals, it would be the signature law that supposedly defined Obama's presidency which would be responsible for undoing it. Millions of people began losing their healthcare, and premiums began rising exponentially.

Irony, not just the opposite of wrinkly.



*snipped for brevity

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

[/INDENT]Did you notice that no one said anything about rendering unto Caesar? Did you see the part about going fishing and finding a coin in the mouth of a fish? Do you see why you shouldn't be using the Bible to make a point when you aren't smart enough to keep the stories straight?

Which brings me to my question that, since what you are using to justify your position DID NOT HAPPEN the way you claim, what did you just prove?

Are you some fucking retard?

You are bringing up a COMPLETELY unrelated story to the one I've been discussing on this thread about how Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....

This is what I've been discussing with other people for TWO DAYS NOW.

Incidently, the King James Bible says,

17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

Not as you portrayed it as a "Temple Tax".


24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”

Wow, that's a pretty big discrepency in translations, isn't it?

I am not talking about the story you now claim you meant, I am talking about what you actually typed. You said the Pharisees were complaining about the Temple Tax, which was implemented by the Pharisees themselves. You then claimed that Jesus told them to render unto Caesar, which he didn't.

You made a mistake, I called you on it, and you have been running around pretending you are smart enough to cover it up. This has nothing to do with discrepancies between translations, it is entirely about you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. If Obama, who you think is smarter than anyone on the planet, couldn't cover up his lie/misstatement/total incompetency, what makes you think you can?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

God loves a cheerful giver. Emphasis on 'cheerful.' Someone who is being forced to give at the point of a gun is not cheerful and is therefore not giving God any of the glory. Giving isn't mandatory. You shouldn't force generosity out of people.

You've really missed the point of several sections of the Gospel. God loves a cheerful giver because that means the person's focus is not on the accumulation of personal earthly wealth, but on the things above. That absolutely DOES NOT MEAN you aren't obliged to give if you do not want to. We are still judged by the Law, and that means we are still supposed to give away everything to help others in the service of God.

Being cheerful isn't meant to be a guide as to how much you give, as we are expected to give God our all. It's a reminder about where our focus should be. Interpreting that as some sort of excuse NOT to give is to sin and try to find our own justification for that sin.

Another non expert in the Bible wants to prove how stupid he is.

Read the quote from Templar up there, because that's the point I was addressing and he is quite clearly wrong. Giving to help others absolutely is part of how we follow Christ. Denying that means tossing out a fairly large chunk of the Gospel.

I'm not addressing the whole Government taxation angle, just the idea that Templar was making that "giving isn't mandatory." It absolutely is as a Christian and if you're debating that, then quite frankly you're wrong and trying to distort and/or ignore the Gospel.

As for the whole Government taxation issue, it's worth noting that the Jews under exile in the Old Testament, the Jews under Roman law in the Gospel, and the Christians in the early Church are all counselled to respect worldly authority as it is used by God to work his will. And again, that isn't opinion, that's just plain fact. Good luck reading any of the Old Testament histories, the prophets under the exile, the Epistles, or even the Gospels and trying to ignore or explain that away.

Now, as Christians we have an obligation to oppose the powers of the world when they try to ask us to conform or act in opposition to God's will. We are also not supposed to allow worldly authority to prevent us from working to spread the Gospel. But when it comes to day to day life, laws of the land, and yes taxes, it is fairly clear that we are to comply.

And again, saying that we should only give cheerfully is to drastically miss the point. I give away an amount of money equal to an iPad a month to support seminarians, missionaries, churches, and disaster relief/food banks. And some months my VERY sinful nature just rebels at the idea of doing that to the point it is painful to write those checks. Being cheerful is meant to remind me that these are the things I am supposed to want to do in order to further God's Kingdom on this Earth and that coveting that money for my own personal wealth is the sinful nature we work to be free of through our salvation in Christ Jesus. The obligation under the Law remains, cheerful or not. It is the sinful man that resists it.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Obama isn't every president, he is the Messiah.

I have not now, nor ever, believed that myself. He's fairly incompetent in matters related to governing. It is truly unfortunate his opponents were terrible candidates.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You've really missed the point of several sections of the Gospel. God loves a cheerful giver because that means the person's focus is not on the accumulation of personal earthly wealth, but on the things above. That absolutely DOES NOT MEAN you aren't obliged to give if you do not want to. We are still judged by the Law, and that means we are still supposed to give away everything to help others in the service of God.

Being cheerful isn't meant to be a guide as to how much you give, as we are expected to give God our all. It's a reminder about where our focus should be. Interpreting that as some sort of excuse NOT to give is to sin and try to find our own justification for that sin.

Another non expert in the Bible wants to prove how stupid he is.

Read the quote from Templar up there, because that's the point I was addressing and he is quite clearly wrong. Giving to help others absolutely is part of how we follow Christ. Denying that means tossing out a fairly large chunk of the Gospel.

I'm not addressing the whole Government taxation angle, just the idea that Templar was making that "giving isn't mandatory." It absolutely is as a Christian and if you're debating that, then quite frankly you're wrong and trying to distort and/or ignore the Gospel.

As for the whole Government taxation issue, it's worth noting that the Jews under exile in the Old Testament, the Jews under Roman law in the Gospel, and the Christians in the early Church are all counselled to respect worldly authority as it is used by God to work his will. And again, that isn't opinion, that's just plain fact. Good luck reading any of the Old Testament histories, the prophets under the exile, the Epistles, or even the Gospels and trying to ignore or explain that away.

Now, as Christians we have an obligation to oppose the powers of the world when they try to ask us to conform or act in opposition to God's will. We are also not supposed to allow worldly authority to prevent us from working to spread the Gospel. But when it comes to day to day life, laws of the land, and yes taxes, it is fairly clear that we are to comply.

And again, saying that we should only give cheerfully is to drastically miss the point. I give away an amount of money equal to an iPad a month to support seminarians, missionaries, churches, and disaster relief/food banks. And some months my VERY sinful nature just rebels at the idea of doing that to the point it is painful to write those checks. Being cheerful is meant to remind me that these are the things I am supposed to want to do in order to further God's Kingdom on this Earth and that coveting that money for my own personal wealth is the sinful nature we work to be free of through our salvation in Christ Jesus. The obligation under the Law remains, cheerful or not. It is the sinful man that resists it.

Him being wrong does not make you right, does it?

Feel free to pretend you won this debate, just don't try to actually argue with me about what the Bible teaches.