The Death of a Presidency

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama isn't every president, he is the Messiah.

I have not now, nor ever, believed that myself. He's fairly incompetent in matters related to governing. It is truly unfortunate his opponents were terrible candidates.

It doesn't matter what you believe to Obama, all that matters is what he believes.

“I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters,” Mr. Obama told Patrick Gaspard, his political director, at the start of the 2008 campaign, according to The New Yorker. “I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m going to think I’m a better political director than my political director.”

 

[oreo]

O.K. I have had enough--I don't talk about RELIGION on this thread. We have a thread topic here that should be debated--and if you religious nut cases want to start your own thread under religion--go do it.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this thread topic. It's all about political ideology--where Obama is trying to take over 6% of this nations economy called Obamacare, and why it's not working, which will eventually collapse under it's own weight.

Now if you don't have enough intelligence to stay with the thread topic--and have to revert to something else like your personal views on religion, you really have no business being on this thread--PERIOD.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

O.K. I have had enough--I don't talk about RELIGION on this thread. We have a thread topic here that should be debated--and if you religious nut cases want to start your own thread under religion--go do it.

Religion has nothing to do with this thread topic.

Yet the defenders of Obama keep bringing it up.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Him being wrong does not make you right, does it?

Feel free to pretend you won this debate, just don't try to actually argue with me about what the Bible teaches.

What is it you disagree with? The idea we are commanded, by God, to use our wealth and gifts to help others and support the spreading of the Gospel? Or do you object to the idea that we are called upon to be obedient to the authorities of the world God uses to further his will? Because neither of these are subtle or isolated parts of the Bible we are talking about here.

 

[oreo]

O.K. I have had enough--I don't talk about RELIGION on this thread. We have a thread topic here that should be debated--and if you religious nut cases want to start your own thread under religion--go do it.

Religion has nothing to do with this thread topic.

Yet the defenders of Obama keep bringing it up.

IGNORE THEM--liberals have always used tactics such as this to get YOU off topic. The reason they're doing it, is because they cannot defend Obama lying to the American public over 40 times about being able to keep their insurance. They can't defend him on the higher premiums after he promised that a families premium would be lowered by $2500.00 a year.

They can't defend single men having to pay for pre-natal care, they can't defend 5 million Americans getting cancellation letters from their insurers. They can't defend Bill Clinton coming out and slapping Obama around on his broken promises. They can't defend the problems with the Federal Government's Obamacare website. They can't defend all the distortions that are wrapped up in Obamacare.

Don't Play their game. IGNORE THEM--and keep reminding them that they voted for this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Him being wrong does not make you right, does it?

Feel free to pretend you won this debate, just don't try to actually argue with me about what the Bible teaches.

What is it you disagree with? The idea we are commanded, by God, to use our wealth and gifts to help others and support the spreading of the Gospel? Or do you object to the idea that we are called upon to be obedient to the authorities of the world God uses to further his will? Because neither of these are subtle or isolated parts of the Bible we are talking about here.

I disagree with anyone, repeat anyone, that tries to use the Bible to justify their politics. You are doing that, and trying to argue with me about it. Fuck off.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

O.K. I have had enough--I don't talk about RELIGION on this thread. We have a thread topic here that should be debated--and if you religious nut cases want to start your own thread under religion--go do it.

Religion has nothing to do with this thread topic.

Yet the defenders of Obama keep bringing it up.

IGNORE THEM--liberals have always used tactics such as this to get YOU off topic. The reason they're doing it, is because they cannot defend Obama lying to the American public over 40 times about being able to keep their insurance. They can't defend him on the higher premiums after he promised that a families premium would be lowered by $2500.00 a year.

They can't defend single men having to pay for pre-natal care, they can't defend 5 million Americans getting cancellation letters from their insurers. They can't defend Bill Clinton coming out and slapping Obama around on his broken promises. They can't defend the problems with the Federal Government's Obamacare website. They can't defend all the distortions that are wrapped up in Obamacare.

Don't Play their game. IGNORE THEM--and keep reminding them that they voted for this.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

 

[Chris]

Obama saved us from a second Great Depression with the Stimulus, saved the auto industry from collapse, brought unemployment down to 7.3%, passed healthcare reform and Wall Street banking reforms, saw the stock market soar and housing rebound, saved the Gulf Coast economy after oil spill, got bin Laden, got Ghaddafi, secured WMDs from Syria, passed START, ended the Iraq war, accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan, created over 11 million private sector jobs, 49 months of economic growth . . . ALL without any help from the Republican Party.

Obama has done a very good job

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama saved us from a second Great Depression with the Stimulus, saved the auto industry from collapse, brought unemployment down to 7.3%, passed healthcare reform and Wall Street banking reforms, saw the stock market soar and housing rebound, saved the Gulf Coast economy after oil spill, got bin Laden, got Ghaddafi, secured WMDs from Syria, passed START, ended the Iraq war, accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan, created over 11 million private sector jobs, 49 months of economic growth . . . ALL without any help from the Republican Party.

Obama has done a very good job

The delusional idiot is back.

 

[Chris]

Obama's accomplishments...

1. Passed Health Care Reform
2. Passed the Stimulus
3. Passed Wall Street Reform
4. Ended the War in Iraq
5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan
6. Eliminated Osama bin laden
7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry
8. Recapitalized Banks
9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi
11. Told Mubarak to Go
12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies
13. Improved America’s Image Abroad
14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending
15. Created Race to the Top
16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards
17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis
18. Passed Mini Stimuli
19. Began Asia “Pivot
20. Increased Support for Veterans
21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran
22. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants
23. Passed Credit Card Reforms
24. Eliminated Catch-22 in Pay Equality Laws
25. Protected Two Liberal Seats on the U.S. Supreme Court
26. Improved Food Safety System
27. Achieved New START Treaty
28. Expanded National Service
29. Expanded Wilderness and Watershed Protection
30. Gave the FDA Power to Regulate Tobacco
31. Pushed Federal Agencies to Be Green Leaders
32. Passed Fair Sentencing Act
33. Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense
34. Began Post-Post-9/11 Military Builddown
35. Let Space Shuttle Die and Killed Planned Moon Mission.
36. Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology
37. Crafting Next-Generation School Tests.
38. Cracked Down on Bad For-Profit Colleges
39. Improved School Nutrition
40. Expanded Hate Crimes Protections
41. Avoided Scandal
42. Brokered Agreement for Speedy Compensation to Victims of Gulf Oil Spill
43. Created Recovery.gov
44. Pushed Broadband Coverage
45. Expanded Health Coverage for Children.
46. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide
47. Expanded Stem Cell Research
48. Provided Payment to Wronged Minority Farmers
49. Helped South Sudan Declare Independence
50. Killed the F-22

 

[JoeB131]

[

I am not talking about the story you now claim you meant, I am talking about what you actually typed. You said the Pharisees were complaining about the Temple Tax, which was implemented by the Pharisees themselves. You then claimed that Jesus told them to render unto Caesar, which he didn't.

You made a mistake, I called you on it, and you have been running around pretending you are smart enough to cover it up. This has nothing to do with discrepancies between translations, it is entirely about you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. If Obama, who you think is smarter than anyone on the planet, couldn't cover up his lie/misstatement/total incompetency, what makes you think you can?

No, I was talking about a VERY specific story, the one that is known to most people about "render unto Caesar what is Caesars", not some obscure story about Magic FIshes. (In fact, this story appears ONLY in Matthew. The same guy who had zombies running around on the day of Jesus' death.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and don't whing about it. I know this is horrible to Teabaggers, who seem to think that the Federal Government is far worse than Rome.

So let's review. You claimed that Jesus never said "render unto Ceaser", after which i cited it in THREE Gospels. You claimed Jesus got the Temple Tax from a Magic Fishy, when the KJV lists as a "tribute", and had nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point was- 1) Jesus said the wealthy weren't getting into his Heaven and 2) you need to pay your taxes and not whine about it...

For the record, I don't think Jesus actually existed.

 

[JoeB131]

O.K. I have had enough--I don't talk about RELIGION on this thread. We have a thread topic here that should be debated--and if you religious nut cases want to start your own thread under religion--go do it.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this thread topic. It's all about political ideology--where Obama is trying to take over 6% of this nations economy called Obamacare, and why it's not working, which will eventually collapse under it's own weight.

Now if you don't have enough intelligence to stay with the thread topic--and have to revert to something else like your personal views on religion, you really have no business being on this thread--PERIOD.

I think the relevence is that a lot of you people who oppose ObamaCare go around claiming to be good Christians and totally down with Jesus.

And yet when I ask you where Jesus would let poor people starve or told folks they didn't have to pay their taxes, the best you all could come up with is a story about a magic fish that had coins in it.

Okay, here's the thing Health Care is 16% of the economy, and the government is already deeply involved. Without the system of taxes and corporate welfare and government programs, the medical system would collapse if it were just left up to the "Capitalists".

 

[Geaux4it]

Obama's accomplishments...

1. Passed Health Care Reform
2. Passed the Stimulus
3. Passed Wall Street Reform
4. Ended the War in Iraq
5. Began Drawdown of War in Afghanistan
6. Eliminated Osama bin laden
7. Turned Around U.S. Auto Industry
8. Recapitalized Banks
9. Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”
10. Toppled Moammar Gaddafi
11. Told Mubarak to Go
12. Reversed Bush Torture Policies
13. Improved America’s Image Abroad
14. Kicked Banks Out of Federal Student Loan Program, Expanded Pell Grant Spending
15. Created Race to the Top
16. Boosted Fuel Efficiency Standards
17. Coordinated International Response to Financial Crisis
18. Passed Mini Stimuli
19. Began Asia “Pivot
20. Increased Support for Veterans
21. Tightened Sanctions on Iran
22. Created Conditions to Begin Closing Dirtiest Power Plants
23. Passed Credit Card Reforms
24. Eliminated Catch-22 in Pay Equality Laws
25. Protected Two Liberal Seats on the U.S. Supreme Court
26. Improved Food Safety System
27. Achieved New START Treaty
28. Expanded National Service
29. Expanded Wilderness and Watershed Protection
30. Gave the FDA Power to Regulate Tobacco
31. Pushed Federal Agencies to Be Green Leaders
32. Passed Fair Sentencing Act
33. Trimmed and Reoriented Missile Defense
34. Began Post-Post-9/11 Military Builddown
35. Let Space Shuttle Die and Killed Planned Moon Mission.
36. Invested Heavily in Renewable Technology
37. Crafting Next-Generation School Tests.
38. Cracked Down on Bad For-Profit Colleges
39. Improved School Nutrition
40. Expanded Hate Crimes Protections
41. Avoided Scandal
42. Brokered Agreement for Speedy Compensation to Victims of Gulf Oil Spill
43. Created Recovery.gov
44. Pushed Broadband Coverage
45. Expanded Health Coverage for Children.
46. Recognized the Dangers of Carbon Dioxide
47. Expanded Stem Cell Research
48. Provided Payment to Wronged Minority Farmers
49. Helped South Sudan Declare Independence
50. Killed the F-22

And that's called a list of accomplishments?

LMAO

-Geaux

 

[Oldstyle]

Obama saved us from a second Great Depression with the Stimulus, saved the auto industry from collapse, brought unemployment down to 7.3%, passed healthcare reform and Wall Street banking reforms, saw the stock market soar and housing rebound, saved the Gulf Coast economy after oil spill, got bin Laden, got Ghaddafi, secured WMDs from Syria, passed START, ended the Iraq war, accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan, created over 11 million private sector jobs, 49 months of economic growth . . . ALL without any help from the Republican Party.

Obama has done a very good job

Take off the rose colored glasses, Chris! Seriously...

The stimulus was so ineffective that the Obama Administration had to invent a new economic statistic "jobs created or saved" to hide how bad it was at creating jobs.

He "saved" UAW benefits...the auto industry could have simply reorganized under bankruptcy with the same results except we the taxpayers wouldn't be out the billions that we still are on the GM deal.

He spent a trillion in badly conceived stimulus only to have unemployment remain at essentially the same level as when he started...meaning we've had the longest stretch of high unemployment since the Great Depression under this President.

The stock market has "soared" because of the 85 billion in quantitative easing we've pumped into the market each month, creating another massive bubble that will burst at the first sign of the Fed weaning us off all that free money.

Obama screwed the Gulf economy because he and the folks he appointed stonewalled drilling permits in the Gulf for years following the Gulf oil spill despite pleas from Democratic and Republican leaders from the Gulf...one more example of his letting ideology take sway over real leadership.

They got Osama bin Laden because of information obtained by the "torture" of captured terrorists by Bush. Without that Barry wouldn't have had a clue where ObL was.

Obama created 11 million new jobs? Where did you pull THAT number from? It's not even close to being accurate. When you factor in how many of those jobs are part time rather than full time (because of ObamaCare?) the number of jobs that he HAS created begins to look more and more abysmal. All one has to do is look at the total workforce participation numbers for Obama's five years to see that he's NOT putting people back to work!

 

[Dr.Traveler]

do it.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this thread topic. It's all about political ideology--where Obama is trying to take over 6% of this nations economy called Obamacare, and why it's not working, which will eventually collapse under it's own weight.

Taking over that would involve implementing a single payer system, something that unfortunately would have made more sense than the mess we ended up with. What's he's doing is arguably worse in that he's forcing participation in a part of the economy that doesn't actually produce any addition material wealth, simply provide legalized betting against disaster. That is arguably worse than what you're all talking about because it's turned what was once an elastic quantity into an inelastic quantity.

 

[birddog]

Obama saved us from a second Great Depression with the Stimulus, saved the auto industry from collapse, brought unemployment down to 7.3%, passed healthcare reform and Wall Street banking reforms, saw the stock market soar and housing rebound, saved the Gulf Coast economy after oil spill, got bin Laden, got Ghaddafi, secured WMDs from Syria, passed START, ended the Iraq war, accelerated the end of the war in Afghanistan, created over 11 million private sector jobs, 49 months of economic growth . . . ALL without any help from the Republican Party.

Obama has done a very good job

HUH?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[

I am not talking about the story you now claim you meant, I am talking about what you actually typed. You said the Pharisees were complaining about the Temple Tax, which was implemented by the Pharisees themselves. You then claimed that Jesus told them to render unto Caesar, which he didn't.

You made a mistake, I called you on it, and you have been running around pretending you are smart enough to cover it up. This has nothing to do with discrepancies between translations, it is entirely about you not knowing what the fuck you are talking about. If Obama, who you think is smarter than anyone on the planet, couldn't cover up his lie/misstatement/total incompetency, what makes you think you can?

No, I was talking about a VERY specific story, the one that is known to most people about "render unto Caesar what is Caesars", not some obscure story about Magic FIshes. (In fact, this story appears ONLY in Matthew. The same guy who had zombies running around on the day of Jesus' death.

Jesus said to pay your taxes and don't whing about it. I know this is horrible to Teabaggers, who seem to think that the Federal Government is far worse than Rome.

So let's review. You claimed that Jesus never said "render unto Ceaser", after which i cited it in THREE Gospels. You claimed Jesus got the Temple Tax from a Magic Fishy, when the KJV lists as a "tribute", and had nothing to do with the point I was making.

The point was- 1) Jesus said the wealthy weren't getting into his Heaven and 2) you need to pay your taxes and not whine about it...

For the record, I don't think Jesus actually existed.

I quoted your fucking post, you said the Pharisees where whining about the Temple Tax, they weren't. That makes you wrong, even if what you thought you were saying was right. The fact that you refuse to admit you fucked up even when I put the eivdence in front of your face makes it worse.

For the record, the opinions of assholes only matter to assholes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The health care problem could be fixed if we got serious tort reform. Provided insurance that did not cover routine health care. Allow insurance to be sold across state lines. Costs would drop significantly. Then we wouldn't need obamacare.

Why we even have insurance that covers routine doctor visits is ridiculous anyway. Your auto insurance doesn't cover wiper blades or oil changes.

Frankly, we should also stop mandating that EVERY insurance policy has to cover EVERY damned thing under the sun. Let insurance companies have more room to innovate and tailor policies to what the consumers actually WANT to have. If a healthy 24-year-old wants to get just catastrophic coverage, fine. Make that available. We live in a nation of 300 million people, and I will never for the life of me understand why leftists think they were all stamped out by cookie cutters in a factory somewhere, and therefore all want, need, and like the same things.

OK, everyone is bitchin' that birth control and abortion has to be covered. Yet if I read the material correctly or even understand it a little bit health care plans are tailored to the person. For example if you smoke you are going to pay more. Therefore a 62 year old man has no need for birth control or abortion so even if covered his cost should be less. If that is how the damn thing works. The whole Obamacare centers around what health care always centers around. Not health care but MONEY. Everyone could have the palladium policies if they can afford them. But what if they can only afford the bronze policy? Does that mean they mis-out on some sort of care? Or merely that their deductible is higher?

What I personally think the government should have done is start offering health care in competition with the insurance companies. Kinda like what Medicaid and Medicare is all about. But instead of like today those two programs taking people the insurance companies don't want be in competition for the rest. I think that would naturally drive down prices.

They also should not have gotten in bed with the drug companies but that is another story.

I didn't say anything about birth control and abortion. I said it would be a good idea not to legally require every single insurance policy to cover every single possible contingency, whether the policy holder wants it or not. Let's just say that I'm not the least bit concerned about my prostate health, hmmm?

And I can't imagine what makes you think health insurance is "tailored" to anyone or anything except leftist do-gooders' intentions.

Furthermore, it is not the government's job to compete with anyone. In fact, competition is rather the antithesis of what government is and does. Medicaid and Medicare don't exist to compete, which can be seen by the fact that Medicare is a de facto monopoly now. Once you are eligible for it, your only other choice is to pay for everything out-of-pocket.

I have no idea what "get in bed with the drug companies" means, other than "I was told that drug companies are evil, and so I assume any association with them is evil as well. Buzzwords!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

.

I don't claim to be an expert on the Bible -- or anything close -- but this conversation begs a question. First of all, I have no idea whether the Bible is some kind of truth or simple mythology, but since both ends of the spectrum use it as a political tool it doesn't really matter. So:

It looks to me like Jesus made it clear that we should help each other, and that riches are not necessarily a good thing. Can we stipulate to that?

Here's the question, a serious one: When I see these quotes, it seems clear that Jesus is telling us to help each other. Fine. Obviously. But liberals use these examples to justify wealth distribution imposed and implemented by government. Are there examples of Jesus supporting such a practice? Did he say that the government should take from one to give to the other?

Again, serious question.

.

No, we can NOT stipulate to your half-assed, self-admittedly murky misunderstandings about Christianity. How about instead of "I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about, but here's a statement, and we'll just call that the benchmark", you try, "Could someone explain to me Christianity's position on these issues I know nothing about"?

When you ask rather than arrogantly proclaiming, I will be happy to explain to you where you went so egregiously wrong that you made an utter and complete fool out of yourself. Until then, I will just tell you that I am laughing at how idiotic you sound.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Him being wrong does not make you right, does it?

Feel free to pretend you won this debate, just don't try to actually argue with me about what the Bible teaches.

What is it you disagree with? The idea we are commanded, by God, to use our wealth and gifts to help others and support the spreading of the Gospel? Or do you object to the idea that we are called upon to be obedient to the authorities of the world God uses to further his will? Because neither of these are subtle or isolated parts of the Bible we are talking about here.

I'm just observing at this point, but I think the part that's being disagreed with is the idea that money being taken from my paycheck by someone else and sent to the government, whether I want it to be or not and without my ever having even seen it, qualifies as "giving".

Okay, carry on.