The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[Redfish]

BTW, was the whitehouse lit up in red, white, and blue yesterday? or still in rainbow?

I don't believe so, but that would be a great idea for Independence Day. In fact, I just mentioned that in another thread.

So you see Obama's agenda as being anti american when he lights up the people's house in rainbow colors but does not light it up in patriotic colors on July 4th?

Do you not see what is wrong with that?

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

 

[martybegan]

Actually there no difference, except that you are OK with one, and not the other because of your bigotry against religious people.

If there are physical differences between men and women, that means there are differences between SSM and OSM right?

Not in terms of the legal aspects, no.

Ah, more "if I think it's OK, it's OK" logic from Joe

 

[martybegan]

Again, that is forcing them. They shouldn't have to change what they do because of someone's hurt feelings.

If they promised a service and didn't provide it, they broke the law.

That would require an actual contract. Having a sign "we bake wedding cakes" is not a contract or a promise. If they decide AFTER the contract is signed to back out, then there is harm, and damages can result.

But not $135k in damages unless we are talking about a $135k cake.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't believe so, but that would be a great idea for Independence Day. In fact, I just mentioned that in another thread.

So you see Obama's agenda as being anti american when he lights up the people's house in rainbow colors but does not light it up in patriotic colors on July 4th?

Do you not see what is wrong with that?

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

 

[Redfish]

So you see Obama's agenda as being anti american when he lights up the people's house in rainbow colors but does not light it up in patriotic colors on July 4th?

Do you not see what is wrong with that?

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

 

[ChrisL]

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

 

[toxicmedia]

The bakery was not being discriminated against because of their religious beliefs. The bakery is not a religious institution.

You don't really grok Individual liberty.

An individuals right to refuse service to

The bakery was not being discriminated against because of their religious beliefs. The bakery is not a religious institution.

neither were the gay couple a religious institution, so what?

what should have happened is:

gay couple: we would like for you to bake us a wedding cake

baker: I do not want to do that because I do not believe in gay marriage, however, Tom the baker down the street is gay and he would be pleased to bake your cake

gay couple: thanks, we respect your beliefs and will go see Tom, have a nice day.

In Oregon, it is against the law for a business to refuse service based on race, sex, or sexual orientation. The bakery is a business. The people who run it, merely represent it

What a Special Snowflake place it must be. MOM!!!! Johnny won't play with me! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

What kind of person is so thin-skinned that she can't just find another bakery? It must suck to go through live with such an Aggrieved Boulder on one's Shoulder.

Listen, I'm not gay, but if I went to a bakery in San Francisco, and they refused to serve me because I'm straight, I would have just left.

I go to this great Korean supermarket where I live, and they ignore me, roll their eyes, and make me wait longer to be served than the parade of Asian old ladies that walk in front of me shaking their heads...but the food is awesome, and it's cheap, and they have stuff you can't get anywhere else.

So I get it.

I'm guessing you're not gay.

I'm guessing you're a white male.

So am I.

Guys like me and you have no idea what it's like for gays, or blacks, or Muslims.

I'm guessing you know very little about me. I am addressing this issue from perspective of Liberty, not based on a narrow identity.

The liberty to do what?

Break anti discrimination laws?

 

[toxicmedia]

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslims already have enough troubles right now with conservatives discriminating against them too.

Even if that did happen, what would that prove?

Maybe it would show yet another religious group discriminating against gays.

The founders did not intend freedom of religion to justify intolerance

 

[Seawytch]

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

Mike drop...

 

[boedicca]

You don't really grok Individual liberty.

An individuals right to refuse service to

neither were the gay couple a religious institution, so what?

what should have happened is:

gay couple: we would like for you to bake us a wedding cake

baker: I do not want to do that because I do not believe in gay marriage, however, Tom the baker down the street is gay and he would be pleased to bake your cake

gay couple: thanks, we respect your beliefs and will go see Tom, have a nice day.

In Oregon, it is against the law for a business to refuse service based on race, sex, or sexual orientation. The bakery is a business. The people who run it, merely represent it

What a Special Snowflake place it must be. MOM!!!! Johnny won't play with me! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

What kind of person is so thin-skinned that she can't just find another bakery? It must suck to go through live with such an Aggrieved Boulder on one's Shoulder.

Listen, I'm not gay, but if I went to a bakery in San Francisco, and they refused to serve me because I'm straight, I would have just left.

I go to this great Korean supermarket where I live, and they ignore me, roll their eyes, and make me wait longer to be served than the parade of Asian old ladies that walk in front of me shaking their heads...but the food is awesome, and it's cheap, and they have stuff you can't get anywhere else.

So I get it.

I'm guessing you're not gay.

I'm guessing you're a white male.

So am I.

Guys like me and you have no idea what it's like for gays, or blacks, or Muslims.

I'm guessing you know very little about me. I am addressing this issue from perspective of Liberty, not based on a narrow identity.

The liberty to do what?

Break anti discrimination laws?

The Freedom to be Left Alone and not to be forced to participate in things which violate one's religious beliefs.

Tolerance IS NOT Forced Participation & Compliance.

 

[toxicmedia]

An individuals right to refuse service to
In Oregon, it is against the law for a business to refuse service based on race, sex, or sexual orientation. The bakery is a business. The people who run it, merely represent it

What a Special Snowflake place it must be. MOM!!!! Johnny won't play with me! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

What kind of person is so thin-skinned that she can't just find another bakery? It must suck to go through live with such an Aggrieved Boulder on one's Shoulder.

Listen, I'm not gay, but if I went to a bakery in San Francisco, and they refused to serve me because I'm straight, I would have just left.

I go to this great Korean supermarket where I live, and they ignore me, roll their eyes, and make me wait longer to be served than the parade of Asian old ladies that walk in front of me shaking their heads...but the food is awesome, and it's cheap, and they have stuff you can't get anywhere else.

So I get it.

I'm guessing you're not gay.

I'm guessing you're a white male.

So am I.

Guys like me and you have no idea what it's like for gays, or blacks, or Muslims.

I'm guessing you know very little about me. I am addressing this issue from perspective of Liberty, not based on a narrow identity.

The liberty to do what?

Break anti discrimination laws?

The Freedom to be Left Alone and not to be forced to participate in things which violate one's religious beliefs.

Tolerance IS NOT Forced Participation & Compliance.

The laws created around us, are not carte blanche.

The freedom to violate the law is not guaranteed by the constitution.

If the area you live, and Oregon is not, a place that doesn't prohibit discrimination against gays...as a business, and an individual, you can refuse service to gays.

If the bakers don't approve of gays, they can do that in their church, and anywhere else they do not provide public accommodation.

How is the bakery refusing to serve gays, any different from lunch counters in the segregated south refusing service to blacks?

 

[boedicca]

What a Special Snowflake place it must be. MOM!!!! Johnny won't play with me! WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!

What kind of person is so thin-skinned that she can't just find another bakery? It must suck to go through live with such an Aggrieved Boulder on one's Shoulder.

Listen, I'm not gay, but if I went to a bakery in San Francisco, and they refused to serve me because I'm straight, I would have just left.

I go to this great Korean supermarket where I live, and they ignore me, roll their eyes, and make me wait longer to be served than the parade of Asian old ladies that walk in front of me shaking their heads...but the food is awesome, and it's cheap, and they have stuff you can't get anywhere else.

So I get it.

I'm guessing you're not gay.

I'm guessing you're a white male.

So am I.

Guys like me and you have no idea what it's like for gays, or blacks, or Muslims.

I'm guessing you know very little about me. I am addressing this issue from perspective of Liberty, not based on a narrow identity.

The liberty to do what?

Break anti discrimination laws?

The Freedom to be Left Alone and not to be forced to participate in things which violate one's religious beliefs.

Tolerance IS NOT Forced Participation & Compliance.

The laws created around us, are not carte blanche.

The freedom to violate the law is not guaranteed by the constitution.

If the area you live, and Oregon is not, a place that doesn't prohibit discrimination against gays...as a business, and an individual, you can refuse service to gays.

If the bakers don't approve of gays, they can do that in their church, and anywhere else they do not provide public accommodation.

How is the bakery refusing to serve gays, any different from lunch counters in the segregated south refusing service to blacks?

It's a terrible law. Forced participation is not Tolerance. It is totalitarian.

 

[martybegan]

So you see Obama's agenda as being anti american when he lights up the people's house in rainbow colors but does not light it up in patriotic colors on July 4th?

Do you not see what is wrong with that?

Look, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that because I support equal rights and privileges for all American citizens, that I am an Obama supporter. You couldn't BE more wrong. I am not a liberal. I am more a libertarian.

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

Just not to their face, you prefer to let government do your dirty work.

 

[martybegan]

If you wre libertarian you wouldn't support the government telling private bisinesses who the must serve.

You're more of a liberal than a libertarian. The later believe in freedom, not in having government make life fair.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

That's not for refusing service. In fact they decided to not pay the driver.

He's being actually fined for their hurt feelings.

 

[boedicca]

The Prog-Social Justice Snowflakes are Neo-Fascists. All dissent must be eliminated; and anything which is not expressly permitted is forbidden.

Hopenchange!

 

[toxicmedia]

Listen, I'm not gay, but if I went to a bakery in San Francisco, and they refused to serve me because I'm straight, I would have just left.

I go to this great Korean supermarket where I live, and they ignore me, roll their eyes, and make me wait longer to be served than the parade of Asian old ladies that walk in front of me shaking their heads...but the food is awesome, and it's cheap, and they have stuff you can't get anywhere else.

So I get it.

I'm guessing you're not gay.

I'm guessing you're a white male.

So am I.

Guys like me and you have no idea what it's like for gays, or blacks, or Muslims.

I'm guessing you know very little about me. I am addressing this issue from perspective of Liberty, not based on a narrow identity.

The liberty to do what?

Break anti discrimination laws?

The Freedom to be Left Alone and not to be forced to participate in things which violate one's religious beliefs.

Tolerance IS NOT Forced Participation & Compliance.

The laws created around us, are not carte blanche.

The freedom to violate the law is not guaranteed by the constitution.

If the area you live, and Oregon is not, a place that doesn't prohibit discrimination against gays...as a business, and an individual, you can refuse service to gays.

If the bakers don't approve of gays, they can do that in their church, and anywhere else they do not provide public accommodation.

How is the bakery refusing to serve gays, any different from lunch counters in the segregated south refusing service to blacks?

It's a terrible law. Forced participation is not Tolerance. It is totalitarian.

Have you ever been to Portland OR?

Oregon is extremely liberal, especially in Portland. They make Californians look conservative.

The majority of Oregonians support the anti discrimination laws.

The bakery is required to obey laws that the majority of Portlandians support, and that is not totalitarian, it's a great example of a fully functioning constitutional republic.

I'm not sure if you agree with my characterization...but it's adorable watching the right get all outraged over stuff that happens in liberal bastions like San Francisco and Portland.

So!...on that note!.....The Left Coast, love it, or leave it!

 

[toxicmedia]

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

That's not for refusing service. In fact they decided to not pay the driver.

He's being actually fined for their hurt feelings.

Do you think restaurants in the south should still have the freedom to refuse service to blacks?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Did they? I mean there was 90 years of slavery, 90 years of segregation, all with the Bill of Rights. Hmm.....

So you are saying that the Defiance of Marriage Law dictated by the SCOTUS is the new Dred Scott? I would agree with that.

 

[toxicmedia]

Wait a minute! Isn't it your side who is complaining that it isn't fair that you can't discriminate? Oh yes, I think so. You people have been whining for a week now because, OMG, you have to serve the gays!!! The horror. You poor little thingies.

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

That's not for refusing service. In fact they decided to not pay the driver.

He's being actually fined for their hurt feelings.

You're right, and that's a bad example of the point I'm trying to make, I stand corrected, and I don't believe we should legislate or adjudicate "feelings"

As for the bakery...the position the bakery took is no different than refusing service to minorities, especially in a place where the majority of voters support anti discrimination laws, and businesses are not religious institutions.

In the south during segregation, do you think the blacks who were beaten at lunch counters couldn't just go somewhere else to eat? And do/did you think the lunch counter employees/owners back in the day should have had the freedom and liberty to refuse service to blacks? The difference of course is that it was legal for them to do that.

I personally oppose laws that allow discrimination based on race or sexual orientation, and support anti discrimination laws.

 

[boedicca]

Do muslim owned businesses have to serve gays? When will a muslim business be fined for refusing service to gays?

the problem is the hypocrisy of PC. we can offend Christians, whites, males; but we can't offend gays, muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc.

Of course they do! They also have to follow their local and state laws regarding business practice.

Who says that? I offend all people all the time.

can you cite a case of a muslim business being fined for refusing service to gays? I am quite sure it has happened.

Muslim taxi driver ordered to pay lesbian couple 10k for telling them to stop kissing - The Express Tribune

That's not for refusing service. In fact they decided to not pay the driver.

He's being actually fined for their hurt feelings.

Do you think restaurants in the south should still have the freedom to refuse service to blacks?

The 1964 Civil Rights Act already prohibited discrimination by valid Public Accomodations such as restaurants, hotels, transportation, and entertainment venues. The rationale is that the inconvenience of being denied real time service, i.e. a meal, was important enough to qualify as equal protection.

Other retail businesses do not fall into this category. There is no urgent imperative to have a wedding cake Right This Minute. The public policy in this instance should be 1st Amendment protections. There is no right to not have one's feelings hurt.