The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

"Scalia stated he wanted to write a separate dissent "to call attention to this Court's threat to American democracy." Justice Clarence Thomas joined Scalia in this dissent.
"Scalia attacked his colleagues' opinion with his signature flourish. "The opinion is couched in a style that is as pretentious as its content is egotistic," he wrote."

"The majority began its opinion with the line: "The Constitution promises liberty to all within its reach, a liberty that includes certain specific rights that allow persons, within a lawful realm, to define and express their identity."

"Scalia wrote that if he ever were to join an opinion that began with that sentence he "would hide my head in a bag," saying such language was more like the "mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie" than, say, legendary Chief Justice John Marshall."

"Justice Clarence Thomas pilloried the majority opinion as "at odds not only with the Constitution, but with the principles upon which our nation were built."
Kennedy and the Court's liberal wing are invoking a definition of "liberty" that the Constitution's framers "would not have recognized, to the detriment of the liberty they sought to protect."
"Along the way, it rejects the idea—captured in our Declaration of Independence—that human dignity is innate and suggests instead that it comes from the Government," Thomas said. "This distortion of our Constitution not only ignores the text, it inverts the relationship between the individual and the state in our Republic. I cannot agree with it."
"Thomas: "This distortion of our Constitution not only ignores the text, it inverts the relationship between the individual and the state in our Republic. I cannot agree with it."

Alito: "By imposing its own views on the entire country, the majority facilitates the marginalization of the many Americans who have traditional ideas. Recalling the harsh treatment of gays and lesbians in the past, some may think that turnabout is fair play. But if that sentiment prevails, the Nation will experience bitter and lasting wounds," he writes.
"Like his conservative colleagues, Alito worries that the Court is overstepping its power, making sweeping legal changes for every state in the country. He concludes on a warning.
"Even enthusiastic supporters of same-sex marriage should worry about the scope of the power that today's majority claims," Alito writes. "Today's decision shows that decades of attempts to restrain this Court's abuse of its authority have failed. "

Why Four Justices Were Against the Supreme Court s Huge Gay-Marriage Decision - NationalJournal.com
 
But starting a business is subject to the laws and regulations of the jurisdiction it falls under. And those laws and regulations cannot be ignored due to one's particular religious belief.

Actually why not? Government has to show a compelling interest when they deny any right to someone, and free exercise of a religion is a right.

How about Halal meat? If a government agency decides to ban halal slaughter, doesn't the religious rights of the Muslims in question override the government desire to regulate, unless a compelling interest is found?
The compelling interest you seek is that they are infringing upon the Civil rights of others. In the case of Sweet Cakes, they infringed upon the civil rights of the lesbians by discriminating against them due to their sexual orientation. Imagine, if that were permissible, all bakeries could refuse selling wedding cakes to Muslims. Or to any group, for that matter.
Bullshit. They didn't infringe upon anybody's rights. They opted out of participating in sacrilege. They provided a list of bakers who would happily serve the customer.
They broke the law by discriminating against them. Neither a wedding nor baking a cake for one is sacreligious.
The state doesn't dictate to me what is sacrilegious. It doesn't and never has had that authority. So fuck off and die, authoritarian scumbag.
For a piece of shit like you? I will do neither. Still, nothing in the Bible indicates baking a cake for a wedding is sacreligious. If you think for a second you get to trump U.S. law by making up religious beliefs that do not exist in the Bible, like Sweet Cakes, you're sadly mistaken.
 
I don't WANT to join Curves, unlike some people, I understand women want to work out alone, I don't feel the need for government to force the franchisee to let me in, nor those women to work out with me around.

How is a contracted wedding cake service a "public accommodation?"

And basically you are saying a person can only make a living the way they want to if they shed their moral code, and accommodate people, who if not accommodated, suffer no actual loss?
You not doing what you get paid to do when I need you to is an actual loss...

That's a stretch.
No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.
We have a compelling government interest, that's why your faith doesn't override our rules for businesses. If it did all hell would break loose.


All hell breaking loose? you mean like when a city like SF decides to go against Federal law and call itself a sanctuary city. Allowing a person who has a criminal record and being deported 5 times to find a safe haven and shoot someone dead?

Illegal deported five times who shot woman I came back to San Francisco because it was a sanctuary city Hot Air

Suspect in San Francisco woman s death deported 5 times - CNN.com
 
Has anyone bothered to defend the judgment? Why should a wedding cake be worth 135,000 when the "victims" suffered no actual harm?

The $135,000 judgement was because the bakers insisted they would continue to break the law despite having it explained to them.

Sounds reasonable and fair to me.
 
Why does a person give up rights when they decide they want to sell something? More importantly, why does the government's ability to regulate commerce override a person's freedom of religious exercise, in particular when it comes to services that are not either 1) matters of life and death and 2) non time sensitive?

again- Public Accommodation Laws. This was argued 50 years ago.

If your religion prohibits you from serving certain customers, you have the remedy of getting out of htat line of work.
 
So Curves should be forced to allow me a membership? A "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign is wrong?

You actually SHOULD have a right to discriminate in anything not government related, unless the government shows a compelling interest in stopping you from doing it.

Curves business model is providing a safe, comfortable place for women to work out and meet their special needs. (Most health clubs, like it or not, are really designed for men.) No Shoes policies are based on sanitary reasons. So both of them have good reasons for "discrimination" if you will.

"My Magic Sky Fairy says No Cake for You" is not a good reason.
 
What is the Eighth Amendment?
Excessive bail shall not be required, no excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
 
Thank you yard dog for pointing out the hypocrisy of our leftists. They can disregard federal law at will but what would they say if Birmingham for instance declared themselves a sanctuary city for people of faith and allowed religious businesses to operate according to their faith. They wouldn't like it one bit.

On a lighter note, I can't stop laughing about one of our employees summation of the gay marriage thing. He said the good book talks about Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Nuff said.
 
Damages? they should have been fined the price it cost the couple to walk down the street to a different baker.

$130,000?

Bullshit.
I have to agree. The Fine is excessive and way out of proportion to any harm done.
How do you feel about the Christian who was discriminated against in Oregon, and was found by the same Oregon Labor Board to receive 325,000.00 dollars?
What case was that? Sounds out of proportion too.
 
The right wing has hilarious priorities and views of what an attack on freedom is, all I see is the right wing clinging and desperately defending homophobes to paint an "attack on freedom" while millions lack healthcare, while millions are thrown into a cycle of debt due to a broken higher level education system, where the lgbt community has been demonized consistently and attacked throughout american history, same with minorities, how can one be free if they lack healthcare? Are stuck in debt? The right wing is a pathetic joke.
 
The right wing has hilarious priorities and views of what an attack on freedom is, all I see is the right wing clinging and desperately defending homophobes to paint an "attack on freedom" while millions lack healthcare, while millions are thrown into a cycle of debt due to a broken higher level education system, where the lgbt community has been demonized consistently and attacked throughout american history, same with minorities, how can one be free if they lack healthcare? Are stuck in debt? The right wing is a pathetic joke.
You start threads on those other issues and I won't drag homofascism into it. Deal?
 
That's a stretch.
No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.
But starting a business is subject to the laws and regulations of the jurisdiction it falls under. And those laws and regulations cannot be ignored due to one's particular religious belief.

Actually why not? Government has to show a compelling interest when they deny any right to someone, and free exercise of a religion is a right.

How about Halal meat? If a government agency decides to ban halal slaughter, doesn't the religious rights of the Muslims in question override the government desire to regulate, unless a compelling interest is found?
The compelling interest you seek is that they are infringing upon the Civil rights of others. In the case of Sweet Cakes, they infringed upon the civil rights of the lesbians by discriminating against them due to their sexual orientation. Imagine, if that were permissible, all bakeries could refuse selling wedding cakes to Muslims. Or to any group, for that matter.

Compelling interest requires an actual harm, not hurt feelings.

If it were "all" bakeries that would be an actual harm, considering the limited scope of the number of bakeries that refuse service in these cases, there is no real harm, and thus no compelling interest that overrides a person's freedom of exercise.

The baker is the one with the actual harm, they have to perform an act against their will simply because of someone's hurt feelings. since the force is on the side against them, the harm is on them, not on the gay couple in this case.
 
Why does a person give up rights when they decide they want to sell something? More importantly, why does the government's ability to regulate commerce override a person's freedom of religious exercise, in particular when it comes to services that are not either 1) matters of life and death and 2) non time sensitive?

again- Public Accommodation Laws. This was argued 50 years ago.

If your religion prohibits you from serving certain customers, you have the remedy of getting out of htat line of work.

That's no actual remedy in cases like this, where it is not a true "public accommodation." PA's are not "Every business out there", they are very specific, and are listed in the federal civil rights act.
 
So Curves should be forced to allow me a membership? A "no shirt, no shoes, no service" sign is wrong?

You actually SHOULD have a right to discriminate in anything not government related, unless the government shows a compelling interest in stopping you from doing it.

Curves business model is providing a safe, comfortable place for women to work out and meet their special needs. (Most health clubs, like it or not, are really designed for men.) No Shoes policies are based on sanitary reasons. So both of them have good reasons for "discrimination" if you will.

"My Magic Sky Fairy says No Cake for You" is not a good reason.

More "if I agree with it, it's OK, if I don't, its not OK" logic from you Joe.

And if you think Curves can get away with it, and bakers can't, then you are a hypocrite.
 
Compelling interest requires an actual harm, not hurt feelings.

If it were "all" bakeries that would be an actual harm, considering the limited scope of the number of bakeries that refuse service in these cases, there is no real harm, and thus no compelling interest that overrides a person's freedom of exercise.

The baker is the one with the actual harm, they have to perform an act against their will simply because of someone's hurt feelings. since the force is on the side against them, the harm is on them, not on the gay couple in this case.

again, this argument was made 50 years ago when racists didn't want to served black people and insisted Jesus was totally cool with that.

it didn't fly then, and it doesn't fly now.

If your superstitions don't allow you to do services you offered and advertised as providing, you have a remedy- You can sell your business.
 

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