The dreaded gay-wedding-cake saga ends: bakers must pay 135 K

[PaintMyHouse]

Yes, if you want to join Curves, I think you should be able to because that is discriminatory against men, IMO. How they get away with doing that, I have no idea.

No shirt, no shoes is due to health code violations. Derp.

No you should not. If you are going into the public accommodation business, then you have agreed to follow your respective state's laws and regulations to serve everyone equally. If you cannot do that, then don't open up a business. This does not violate any of your rights.

I don't WANT to join Curves, unlike some people, I understand women want to work out alone, I don't feel the need for government to force the franchisee to let me in, nor those women to work out with me around.

How is a contracted wedding cake service a "public accommodation?"

And basically you are saying a person can only make a living the way they want to if they shed their moral code, and accommodate people, who if not accommodated, suffer no actual loss?

You not doing what you get paid to do when I need you to is an actual loss...

That's a stretch.

No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.

We have a compelling government interest, that's why your faith doesn't override our rules for businesses. If it did all hell would break loose.

 

[Mr Natural]

The moral to this story is "Don't be a dick."

 

[martybegan]

I don't WANT to join Curves, unlike some people, I understand women want to work out alone, I don't feel the need for government to force the franchisee to let me in, nor those women to work out with me around.

How is a contracted wedding cake service a "public accommodation?"

And basically you are saying a person can only make a living the way they want to if they shed their moral code, and accommodate people, who if not accommodated, suffer no actual loss?

You not doing what you get paid to do when I need you to is an actual loss...

That's a stretch.

No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.

We have a compelling government interest, that's why your faith doesn't override our rules for businesses. If it did all hell would break loose.

A few bakers making a gay couple go to another baker is "all hell breaking loose"?

LOL.

 

[Faun]

Yes, if you want to join Curves, I think you should be able to because that is discriminatory against men, IMO. How they get away with doing that, I have no idea.

No shirt, no shoes is due to health code violations. Derp.

No you should not. If you are going into the public accommodation business, then you have agreed to follow your respective state's laws and regulations to serve everyone equally. If you cannot do that, then don't open up a business. This does not violate any of your rights.

I don't WANT to join Curves, unlike some people, I understand women want to work out alone, I don't feel the need for government to force the franchisee to let me in, nor those women to work out with me around.

How is a contracted wedding cake service a "public accommodation?"

And basically you are saying a person can only make a living the way they want to if they shed their moral code, and accommodate people, who if not accommodated, suffer no actual loss?

You not doing what you get paid to do when I need you to is an actual loss...

That's a stretch.

No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.

But starting a business is subject to the laws and regulations of the jurisdiction it falls under. And those laws and regulations cannot be ignored due to one's particular religious belief.

 

[ChrisL]

 

[martybegan]

I don't WANT to join Curves, unlike some people, I understand women want to work out alone, I don't feel the need for government to force the franchisee to let me in, nor those women to work out with me around.

How is a contracted wedding cake service a "public accommodation?"

And basically you are saying a person can only make a living the way they want to if they shed their moral code, and accommodate people, who if not accommodated, suffer no actual loss?

You not doing what you get paid to do when I need you to is an actual loss...

That's a stretch.

No, it isn't. And business isn't faith.

Starting a business does not override faith or a persons ability to live under their faith without a compelling government interest.

But starting a business is subject to the laws and regulations of the jurisdiction it falls under. And those laws and regulations cannot be ignored due to one's particular religious belief.

Actually why not? Government has to show a compelling interest when they deny any right to someone, and free exercise of a religion is a right.

How about Halal meat? If a government agency decides to ban halal slaughter, doesn't the religious rights of the Muslims in question override the government desire to regulate, unless a compelling interest is found?

 

[martybegan]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

 

[ChrisL]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

 

[martybegan]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

 

[Flash Farley]

 

[ChrisL]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

 

[The Rabbi]

The moral to this story is "Don't be a dick."

No, the moral is "you can be a dick as long as you're a member of a favored minority."
135k for a cake? Who is anyone kidding? The dykes could have gone to the bakery down the street and end of story. Instead they whined to the authoriies like little bitches and insisted on this massive, company ending fine. If that isnt a dick move I dont know what is.

 

[martybegan]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

I understand them just fine, and appealing to "the law is the law" doesn't answer the question of the law being just or not, something you keep skirting around.

In this case there is a definite conflict between the rights of one side to exercise their religion, and the right of another side to commerce. You think that all the power is on the commerce side, which is a wrong interpretation of the laws, or at least the basis of the laws. You ignore the need to find a compelling government interest needed for the government to take one side or the other, and instead go with "I agree with side X, so side X wins".

 

[The Rabbi]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

Wow over 100 pages and you're still repeating the same failed argument.
Everything the Nazis did was legal. I guess the members of the resistence should have been told the law is the law.

 

[ChrisL]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

I understand them just fine, and appealing to "the law is the law" doesn't answer the question of the law being just or not, something you keep skirting around.

In this case there is a definite conflict between the rights of one side to exercise their religion, and the right of another side to commerce. You think that all the power is on the commerce side, which is a wrong interpretation of the laws, or at least the basis of the laws. You ignore the need to find a compelling government interest needed for the government to take one side or the other, and instead go with "I agree with side X, so side X wins".

The law is set up to protect people from being discriminated against when seeking "public accommodation services" from people like you. Simple really. Because here in America, we are all equals according to the law. Your religious views do not preclude you from following the laws like everyone else has to.

 

[ChrisL]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

Wow over 100 pages and you're still repeating the same failed argument.
Everything the Nazis did was legal. I guess the members of the resistence should have been told the law is the law.

And allowing gays to be married or to receive services is like the nazis how? ROFL. YOU are grasping at straws now. Like I said, you can be an arse on your time. No one is stopping you from being an arse.

 

[The Rabbi]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

Wow over 100 pages and you're still repeating the same failed argument.
Everything the Nazis did was legal. I guess the members of the resistence should have been told the law is the law.

And allowing gays to be married or to receive services is like the nazis how? ROFL. YOU are grasping at straws now. Like I said, you can be an arse on your time. No one is stopping you from being an arse.

If your argument is the law is the law and needs to be followed then that applies across the board, whether you're talking about gay marriage or adherence to Nazi ideology. Right?

 

[martybegan]

A simple comparison, and wrong on its face. It only becomes an issue (to me at least) when you force people to participate in said marriage against their will. That would be like forcing them to eat donuts when on a diet, because if they didn't, your feelings would be hurt, even though there are plenty of other people out there who would love a donut.

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

I understand them just fine, and appealing to "the law is the law" doesn't answer the question of the law being just or not, something you keep skirting around.

In this case there is a definite conflict between the rights of one side to exercise their religion, and the right of another side to commerce. You think that all the power is on the commerce side, which is a wrong interpretation of the laws, or at least the basis of the laws. You ignore the need to find a compelling government interest needed for the government to take one side or the other, and instead go with "I agree with side X, so side X wins".

The law is set up to protect people from being discriminated against when seeking "public accommodation services" from people like you. Simple really. Because here in America, we are all equals according to the law. Your religious views do not preclude you from following the laws like everyone else has to.

I wouldn't deny a gay couple services if I provided such services, however I don't see why government has to force others who disagree with my position, when there is no compelling government interest.

And again, PA laws have been stretched to include "every business" when they were once strictly defined. Contracted catering services are not public accommodations.

 

[ChrisL]

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

Wow over 100 pages and you're still repeating the same failed argument.
Everything the Nazis did was legal. I guess the members of the resistence should have been told the law is the law.

And allowing gays to be married or to receive services is like the nazis how? ROFL. YOU are grasping at straws now. Like I said, you can be an arse on your time. No one is stopping you from being an arse.

If your argument is the law is the law and needs to be followed then that applies across the board, whether you're talking about gay marriage or adherence to Nazi ideology. Right?

No. Gay marriage doesn't harm anyone. Neither does selling them a cake. Get a grip, old man. The world is passing you by.

 

[ChrisL]

No one is forcing you to participate in the marriage. You just cannot open a business and use your religion as an excuse to discriminate against people. That is the law.

Yes, they are. Stop trying to sugar coat it. If the law says provide the cake or be fined/punished, and you don't want to, you are being forced to participate in it.

When government fines are involved, it is force. When any government agency is involved, it is forced.

Nope, you have to follow the laws which the state has the right to set about anti-discrimination. See civil rights for the people. Sorry that you don't understand laws.

What is Discrimination - FindLaw

I understand them just fine, and appealing to "the law is the law" doesn't answer the question of the law being just or not, something you keep skirting around.

In this case there is a definite conflict between the rights of one side to exercise their religion, and the right of another side to commerce. You think that all the power is on the commerce side, which is a wrong interpretation of the laws, or at least the basis of the laws. You ignore the need to find a compelling government interest needed for the government to take one side or the other, and instead go with "I agree with side X, so side X wins".

The law is set up to protect people from being discriminated against when seeking "public accommodation services" from people like you. Simple really. Because here in America, we are all equals according to the law. Your religious views do not preclude you from following the laws like everyone else has to.

I wouldn't deny a gay couple services if I provided such services, however I don't see why government has to force others who disagree with my position, when there is no compelling government interest.

And again, PA laws have been stretched to include "every business" when they were once strictly defined. Contracted catering services are not public accommodations.

Because it is against the law in that particular state, and states most certainly do have the right to create rules and regulations that businesses have to follow, and that includes civil rights and anti-discrimination laws. Now, you can moan and cry about it all day long, but it changes jack shit. The fact is, in today's day and age, you can no longer open a business and openly discriminate against certain segments of the population because "you don't like them."