The End Times

[JohnPrewett]

Interesting.

And true. How discouraging it is that so many Christians insist that Christ will return in body. The Bible says no such thing.

Bible (Revelation 19) says it. You just don't believe it .... And it bothers you that believers believe it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If this is heaven I would hate to see what hell is like

 

[Weatherman2020]

I haven't attended Bible study lately. The study of Revelation we embarked on has gone one direction - toward futurism, and dissent is frowned on.

The way I read the Scriptures, the end times have passed and the era of peace, prosperity, and happiness is here. The kingdom of heaven is here.

Daniel says that when the last foreign ruler subjugates Israel, God will establish His kingdom on the earth (2:44). While Israel was subject to Rome, its last foreign ruler, Paul says that the Church is here to stay (Eph. 3:21).

And there we have it. Christianity is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. The wars and earthquakes that Jesus warned his generation of in the Olivet discourse occurred during the Roman-Jewish Wars, after which Israel finally and fully lost all viability as a state. After the failed Bar Kokhba Revolt in AD 132, the Jewish Age had come to an end, and the Christian Age, like a fig tree in springtime sprouting green shoots, waiting for summer, ready to blossom, would begin.

I'm aware that most Christians believe that the end of the age that the Bible tells us of refers to the end of the current age, and I don't understand why. Might someone enlighten me? Has the Apocalypse come and gone? Why or why not?

Turn on the news and enjoy your era of peace, prosperity and happiness, dipshit.

 

[norwegen]

Interesting.

And true. How discouraging it is that so many Christians insist that Christ will return in body. The Bible says no such thing.

Bible (Revelation 19) says it. You just don't believe it .... And it bothers you that believers believe it.

I don't see any passage in that chapter that says he'll return in body. Can you tell me the verse?

What I do see in the Bible is that he would come on the clouds of heaven, or as a trumpet blast, as Paul says. Jesus himself says that he would come like lightning, from east west.

What the Bible says is that Jesus will come everywhere, and no one will see it.

We will see him in the Church, as John saw him in Revelation.

That's what the Bible says. And that began nearly 2000 years ago.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Sorry I forgot to tell you to read on into chapter 20

 

[norwegen]

Chapter 20 doesn't mention a bodily return of Christ, either. The Bible doesn't mention a rapture. It doesn't mention a seven-year tribulation. Futurism has an extra-biblical lexicon.

One of the dangers, I think, of embracing a theology that, by and by, was developed in the 19th century - long after the Scriptures were canonized - is that this theology - futurism - demands speculation, and hence eisegesis, or interpretation that encourages bias, and its adherents must ask themselves at what point they think they might be adding to the Scriptures.

 

[hobelim]

Chapter 20 doesn't mention a bodily return of Christ, either. The Bible doesn't mention a rapture. It doesn't mention a seven-year tribulation. Futurism has an extra-biblical lexicon.

One of the dangers, I think, of embracing a theology that, by and by, was developed in the 19th century - long after the Scriptures were canonized - is that this theology - futurism - demands speculation, and hence eisegesis, or interpretation that encourages bias, and its adherents must ask themselves at what point they think they might be adding to the Scriptures.

When the disciples asked Jesus where they would find him when he returned he replied,

"Where the vultures gather, there lies the corpse."

This shows that there will be another physical incarnation and another dispute...

Jesus also said there were other sheep, not of this fold, not Jewish, that he will also call...How can he teach or lead other sheep to greener pastures unless he was here where the sheep are?

he also said of his return, one will be taken, the other left behind, which shows that some will understand, some will not.

Jesus could not be picked on by vultures unless he was here on earth, he could not bring in the other fold of sheep unless he was here on earth and he could not take anyone with him or leave anyone behind unless he was on here on earth to do it.

Only a person can dispute with other people.Only a person can teach other people. Only a person can take one or leave another behind.

 

[hobelim]

What I do see in the Bible is that he would come on the clouds of heaven, or as a trumpet blast, as Paul says. Jesus himself says that he would come like lightning, from east west.

A trumpet blast is a metaphor for a proclamation from a prophet of God as Elijah, who was called the trumpet of God, is expected to precede the Messiah..

Jesus emerging from the clouds that have obscured him for the past 2000 years means that all people will finally see him, understand him.

Lightning that flashes in the east reaching out to light up the west is a metaphor for something like a news flash...

In a world where there had already been nothing new under the sun for thousands of years, thousands of years ago, something never seen or heard before would be impossible to ignore or suppress. The best way to spread a new message around is to tell someone its a secret.

So, shhh. Loose lips sink ships and all that...




"Time was when many were aghast at you, my people, so now many nations recoil at sight of him, and kings curl their lips in disgust. For they see what they had never been told and things unheard before fill their thoughts""

 

[norwegen]

Chapter 20 doesn't mention a bodily return of Christ, either. The Bible doesn't mention a rapture. It doesn't mention a seven-year tribulation. Futurism has an extra-biblical lexicon.

One of the dangers, I think, of embracing a theology that, by and by, was developed in the 19th century - long after the Scriptures were canonized - is that this theology - futurism - demands speculation, and hence eisegesis, or interpretation that encourages bias, and its adherents must ask themselves at what point they think they might be adding to the Scriptures.

When the disciples asked Jesus where they would find him when he returned he replied,

"Where the vultures gather, there lies the corpse."

This shows that there will be another physical incarnation and another dispute...

Jesus also said there were other sheep, not of this fold, not Jewish, that he will also call...How can he teach or lead other sheep to greener pastures unless he was here where the sheep are?

he also said of his return, one will be taken, the other left behind, which shows that some will understand, some will not.

Jesus could not be picked on by vultures unless he was here on earth, he could not bring in the other fold of sheep unless he was here on earth and he could not take anyone with him or leave anyone behind unless he was on here on earth to do it.

Only a person can dispute with other people.Only a person can teach other people. Only a person can take one or leave another behind.

You're not reading in context. Jesus is telling them that a false messiah or prophet (several of them cropped up during the Jewish Wars) can be pointed out. "Look, over there." They are mere men; when they die, their carcasses will attract vultures. Jesus, on the other hand, is not coming in body.

And the Jews are chosen, for they carry the Oracle of God, the Torah, the glory of Israel and a revelation to the nations (read Isaiah 49). All who believe are welcome in the sheepfold.

And Jesus does not say that of the two men in the field, one will be taken and one left behind. Again, read in context (and critically). He does not say left behind. He says left. And to illustrate his point, he references Noah. When the rains came and flooded the land, the wicked were taken and the righteous were left. (Popular culture gets that backward; it says that the righteous are taken and the wicked left (behind)).

You're interpreting with eisegesis. I'm telling you what the Bible says.

 

[godsandmen]

I think the technical word for your position is amillennial.

 

[norwegen]

I think the technical word for your position is amillennial.

Is it? I don't know. Don't even care, really. I just know what the Bible says. And I know that apocalyptic literature is essentially creative writing (with an element of truth, of course), especially Revelation; it's very imaginative. And the genre offers encouragement. Revelation encourages Christians to endure, for the Kingdom is at hand.

The Christians fled Jerusalem for three and a half years (from AD 66 to 70), as John vividly recalls in Revelation, but while in exile (mostly in the Hellenistic region of Decapolis, in the village of Pella), they must have been quite despondent as the Zealots and the Romans - the two beasts - burned down the Temple. John encourages them with the prophecy, that the Lord's kingdom will prevail upon the earth.

And he was right. Christianity spread through the nations and changed the world.

 

[hobelim]

And he was right. Christianity spread through the nations and changed the world.

Sure but things are not very often what they seem...



"I have not come to bring peace but a sword."

"Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them."

"From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations."

"Take this cup of wine and drink it. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant."


"Just art thou, in these thy judgments, thou Holy One who art and wast; for they shed the blood of thy people and of thy prophets and thou hast given them blood to drink."



"I will force your oppressors to eat their own flesh and make them drunk on their own blood as if with new wine. Then all flesh shall know that I, the Lord, am your savior and redeemer, the mighty one of Jacob. "

 

[norwegen]

Revelation exhorts Christians to conquer (chapters 2 & 3). It also says that Jesus would rule with a rod of iron.

Christianity didn't impact the world like it did simply by turning the other cheek.

 

[hobelim]

Revelation exhorts Christians to conquer (chapters 2 & 3). It also says that Jesus would rule with a rod of iron.

Christianity didn't impact the world like it did by being diminutive.

Yeah, I know, I know.....




When they drink the fiery wine, they vomit and go mad.

It says so in the Bible, (not to mention every history book) so I believe.

 

[godsandmen]

I haven't attended Bible study lately. The study of Revelation we embarked on has gone one direction - toward futurism, and dissent is frowned on.

The way I read the Scriptures, the end times have passed and the era of peace, prosperity, and happiness is here. The kingdom of heaven is here.

Daniel says that when the last foreign ruler subjugates Israel, God will establish His kingdom on the earth (2:44). While Israel was subject to Rome, its last foreign ruler, Paul says that the Church is here to stay (Eph. 3:21).

And there we have it. Christianity is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. The wars and earthquakes that Jesus warned his generation of in the Olivet discourse occurred during the Roman-Jewish Wars, after which Israel finally and fully lost all viability as a state. After the failed Bar Kokhba Revolt in AD 132, the Jewish Age had come to an end, and the Christian Age, like a fig tree in springtime sprouting green shoots, waiting for summer, ready to blossom, would begin.

I'm aware that most Christians believe that the end of the age that the Bible tells us of refers to the end of the current age, and I don't understand why. Might someone enlighten me? Has the Apocalypse come and gone? Why or why not?

You worry about some strange shit dude.........

Worry?

I'm quite happy with what I believe, actually.

Personally, I don't believe the bible is the word of God at all, but you do have my respect for daring to think outside of the typical evangelical box. Not many have the guts to do that. They're happy just to go with the majority opinions without ever even questioning them.

 

[kjw47]

I haven't attended Bible study lately. The study of Revelation we embarked on has gone one direction - toward futurism, and dissent is frowned on.

The way I read the Scriptures, the end times have passed and the era of peace, prosperity, and happiness is here. The kingdom of heaven is here.

Daniel says that when the last foreign ruler subjugates Israel, God will establish His kingdom on the earth (2:44). While Israel was subject to Rome, its last foreign ruler, Paul says that the Church is here to stay (Eph. 3:21).

And there we have it. Christianity is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. The wars and earthquakes that Jesus warned his generation of in the Olivet discourse occurred during the Roman-Jewish Wars, after which Israel finally and fully lost all viability as a state. After the failed Bar Kokhba Revolt in AD 132, the Jewish Age had come to an end, and the Christian Age, like a fig tree in springtime sprouting green shoots, waiting for summer, ready to blossom, would begin.

I'm aware that most Christians believe that the end of the age that the Bible tells us of refers to the end of the current age, and I don't understand why. Might someone enlighten me? Has the Apocalypse come and gone? Why or why not?

34,000 religions claim to be Christian--- One is. Jesus started one single religion( 1Cor 1:10)-- Not the one that came out of Rome or any of her branches( protestants)--Not one of them serve the God Israel served in the OT. God didn't change, the religion changed.

Revelation promises that when Gods kingdom is in full control--No more, mourning outcrys or pain, even death will be no more==These things have not occurred. Gods kingdom is ruling heaven 100% right now, but not the earth. Jesus brings Gods kingdom rule with him at Har-mageddon--this hasn't occurred yet either.
Your teachers don't know truth.

 

[hobelim]

34,000 religions claim to be Christian--- One is.

Not one single Christian denomination, including yours, follows divine law in the way that Jesus taught people to understand the figurative language used and comply with the demands of its hidden subjects. Not one denomination, including yours, even has an inkling that that is the substance of what Jesus taught and the disciples believed was the only way to comply with the law that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of eternal life, here and now on earth..

Don't take it too hard. Nobody's perfect. The fact that Jesus ascended into Heaven implies that he too first descended into hell, the realm of the dead..

There. Now you can stop perpetuating the one and only true christian religion garbage that you are peddling.

Be real. You are just as inebriated on vats of Jesus juice as any other denomination.

How are you ever going to rise from the dead if you won't stop pretending that you aren't dead?

Its not like the shit in your diaper doesn't stink to high heaven... sheesh.

 

[JohnPrewett]

Chapter 20 doesn't mention a bodily return of Christ, either. ............

You're just a non-believer that hates the plain truth.
You're only distinction is an unusual and awesome ability to pretend ignorance and pretend to misunderstand.


" I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and the authority to judge was given to them.
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness of Jesus and for the word of God.
They had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4

 

[Avatar4321]

I haven't attended Bible study lately. The study of Revelation we embarked on has gone one direction - toward futurism, and dissent is frowned on.

The way I read the Scriptures, the end times have passed and the era of peace, prosperity, and happiness is here. The kingdom of heaven is here.

Daniel says that when the last foreign ruler subjugates Israel, God will establish His kingdom on the earth (2:44). While Israel was subject to Rome, its last foreign ruler, Paul says that the Church is here to stay (Eph. 3:21).

And there we have it. Christianity is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. The wars and earthquakes that Jesus warned his generation of in the Olivet discourse occurred during the Roman-Jewish Wars, after which Israel finally and fully lost all viability as a state. After the failed Bar Kokhba Revolt in AD 132, the Jewish Age had come to an end, and the Christian Age, like a fig tree in springtime sprouting green shoots, waiting for summer, ready to blossom, would begin.

I'm aware that most Christians believe that the end of the age that the Bible tells us of refers to the end of the current age, and I don't understand why. Might someone enlighten me? Has the Apocalypse come and gone? Why or why not?

I don't believe it is the PAST, (well at least not all of it) and believe it is the future.... Christ returns and there is a second coming of Christ, and He returns during absolute chaos and turmoil, the Great Tribulation....

Except that it is the past. Every book of the Bible - every single one, without exception - was written in the Jewish Age. Even those written after the Temple burned down - Revelation, Hebrews, the epistles of John, the Gospel of John - were penned as Israel crumbled though remained viable as a nation, and even as a state (or a province of Rome). The end of the age that the Scriptures speak of is the end of the Jewish Age. Not the Christian Age.

Christ's prediction of the future is fulfilled. He has come, and so has his kingdom. No one would see the the arrival of his kingdom, as he predicts in Luke's Gospel, and no one would know the day or the hour that he would come, as he also predicts. He and his church were just here. People looked around and noticed they were just here.

The wars and earthquakes occurred in Jesus' generation, as he predicted they would (apparently, there was an earthquake in Jerusalem during the Jewish Wars, and maybe even one at Masada). These wars, ending with the Bar Kokhba Revolt, may not have resulted in the number of casualties as, say, WWII or the American Civil War did, but the casualty rate was tremendous. The Zealots were a militant, blood-thirsty lot who refused to surrender. The Idumeans were, too. But more than the casualty rate, the Jewish Wars marked the the end of the Jewish Age and heralded the beginning of the Christian Age. They marked the most significant, consequential upheaval in civilization that the world has ever known.

When Jesus died on the Cross on that first Good Friday, he started a revolution in which kings and kingdoms would bow down to him. That is Church Age. The Church, as Daniel and Paul say, is here forever.

Can you please tell us when Christ returned to rule as King for 1000 years and Satan was bound?

Why did Paul warn it wouldn't come until after an apostasy? Why did Peter say Christ wouldn't return until the restitution of all thing? Why did Paul foresee a future time, one he called the dispensation of the fulness of times when all things were gathered into one? Something that wasn't possible until modern communication and transportation was available?

When were the tribes of Israel gathered? When did the Angel John saw in revelation come carrying the Gospel to the people?

When did the city of Zion descend from heaven?

When did the two prophets preach and protect Jerusalem only to be murdered and rise again?

 

[godsandmen]