The Ethics of Capital Punishment

[syrenn]

Sky, just think of their execution as a start to their reincarnation.

Hopefully as someone less of a scum bag murder..

 

[Ropey]

Convicted murder+ execution= good thing.

Then execute the people who send innocent men to death row.

Put them on trial... and see how it goes.

+2

 

[syrenn]

LWOP is the appropriate sentence for murder. Execution is not.

Nuff said. I'm down off my soapbox. I won't post any more about this topic.

No, it is not, not by a long shot is LWOP an appropriate sentence for a murder. LWOP for a rapist is an appropriate sentence. LWOP is an appropriate sentence for a child molester.

If the murder lives while their victim does not... it is far from an appropriate sentence. They can still harm others while alive... they can still kill and conspire to kill and commit crimes while in prison.

I beg to differ
Rapists and child molesters deserve death in my opinion.

I agree, im my opinion i would have them executed too. (see the part about having all criminals dead)


We are specifically talking about people on death row waling away from their sentences to have a lovely long life in prison. Rape and child molesting is usually not a capitol punishment case...so it as far as i am concerned in this conversation does no apply.

 

[alan1]

No, it is not, not by a long shot is LWOP an appropriate sentence for a murder. LWOP for a rapist is an appropriate sentence. LWOP is an appropriate sentence for a child molester.

If the murder lives while their victim does not... it is far from an appropriate sentence. They can still harm others while alive... they can still kill and conspire to kill and commit crimes while in prison.

I beg to differ
Rapists and child molesters deserve death in my opinion.

I agree, im my opinion i would have them executed too. (see the part about having all criminals dead)


We are specifically talking about people on death row waling away from their sentences to have a lovely long life in prison. Rape and child molesting is usually not a capitol punishment case...so it as far as i am concerned in this conversation does no apply.

If I was the supreme jackass ruler of the world, rapists and child molesters would suffer the death penalty. They would join their brethren of murderers in the eternal dirt nap.

 

[syrenn]

I'm starting this thread because a poster indicated that she was interested in discussing the meaning of karma.

To a Buddhist. karma means, "cause and effect". It has nothing to do with pre-determination, destiny, or punishment and reward.

The casue...You do murder.... the effect ...is being put to death.



see how that works?

 

[Tank]

Child molesters need to be executed so their victims can sleep a little better.

 

[syrenn]

Child molesters need to be executed so their victims can't sleep a little better.

I am just fine with life in prison... in general population... with their crimes known.

 

[Ropey]

Child molesters need to be executed so their victims can't sleep a little better.

I am just fine with life in prison... in general population... with their crimes known.

Jury of who....

 

[alan1]

An eye for an eye. Right or wrong?

I say it is wrong.

All human life is sacred. Society has a moral obligation to protect human life, not take it. The death penalty harms society by cheapening the value of life. Allowing the state to inflict death on certain of its citizens legitimizes the taking of life. The death of anyone, even a convicted killer, diminishes us all. Society has a duty to end this practice which causes such harm, yet produces little in the way of benefits.

I posted responses to some other posts on this thread, now I will address the OP.

"An eye for an eye" -- Supposedly biblical, I don't give a darn about it. It's not about vengeance to me. If one is evil enough to commit murder against their societal brethren, they need to be removed from said society.

"All human life is sacred". I disagree. At the point that one commits heinous crimes such as murder, child molestation, rape --- their life is no longer sacred or of value to me. They have crossed into anti-societal benefit and should be removed for the betterment of humankind.
It is the death penalty that removes the truly degenerate aspects from harming the rest of us that promote the best of society. Removing the filth from our culture diminishes nothing.

 

[Ropey]

An eye for an eye. Right or wrong?

I say it is wrong.

All human life is sacred. Society has a moral obligation to protect human life, not take it. The death penalty harms society by cheapening the value of life. Allowing the state to inflict death on certain of its citizens legitimizes the taking of life. The death of anyone, even a convicted killer, diminishes us all. Society has a duty to end this practice which causes such harm, yet produces little in the way of benefits.

I posted responses to some other posts on this thread, now I will address the OP.

"An eye for an eye" -- Supposedly biblical, I don't give a darn about it. It's not about vengeance to me. If one is evil enough to commit murder against their societal brethren, they need to be removed from said society.

"All human life is sacred". I disagree. At the point that one commits heinous crimes such as murder, child molestation, rape --- their life is no longer sacred or of value to me. They have crossed into anti-societal benefit and should be removed for the betterment of humankind.
It is the death penalty that removes the truly degenerate aspects from harming the rest of us that promote the best of society. Removing the filth from our culture diminishes nothing.

I agree and think that removing the death penalty negates the ultimate price for the ultimate evil acts.

 

[Si modo]

The best argument against capital punishment is not that "all life is sacred" (which I don't believe, and neither does Sky Dancer, who will otherwise never again eat a meal), but rather that judges and juries are not infallible and capital punishment is the only punishment that is irreversible and impossible to compensate for if a miscarriage of justice occurs.

When we can eliminate the possibility of human error in the courtroom, then capital punishment will be defensible. Until then, it's not.

Exactly.

Also, the cost associated with mandatory appeals seriously lengthens the amount of time the surviving loved ones have to wait for justice. I don't find that fair to the loved ones at all.

 

[syrenn]

The best argument against capital punishment is not that "all life is sacred" (which I don't believe, and neither does Sky Dancer, who will otherwise never again eat a meal), but rather that judges and juries are not infallible and capital punishment is the only punishment that is irreversible and impossible to compensate for if a miscarriage of justice occurs.

When we can eliminate the possibility of human error in the courtroom, then capital punishment will be defensible. Until then, it's not.

Exactly.

Also, the cost associated with mandatory appeals seriously lengthens the amount of time the surviving loved ones have to wait for justice. I don't find that fair to the loved ones at all.

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

 

[Si modo]

The best argument against capital punishment is not that "all life is sacred" (which I don't believe, and neither does Sky Dancer, who will otherwise never again eat a meal), but rather that judges and juries are not infallible and capital punishment is the only punishment that is irreversible and impossible to compensate for if a miscarriage of justice occurs.

When we can eliminate the possibility of human error in the courtroom, then capital punishment will be defensible. Until then, it's not.

Exactly.

Also, the cost associated with mandatory appeals seriously lengthens the amount of time the surviving loved ones have to wait for justice. I don't find that fair to the loved ones at all.

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

 

[syrenn]

Exactly.

Also, the cost associated with mandatory appeals seriously lengthens the amount of time the surviving loved ones have to wait for justice. I don't find that fair to the loved ones at all.

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Don't bet me wrong... i do not want any mistakes made either. That does not however want me to ever have capitol punishment off the table for murders. Mistakes happen. Even knowing that i am still for the death penalty.

 

[Si modo]

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Don't bet me wrong... i do not want any mistakes made either. That does not however want me to ever have capitol punishment off the table for murders. Mistakes happen. Even knowing that i am still for the death penalty.

If one of my loved ones who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is innocent is sentenced to death for a murder, now all of his/her loved ones are also surviving victims of murder. Not only that, the case is closed for the original victim and the real murderer will never be found.

It makes me shudder just to think of that possibility - wrongful conviction of a loved one of capital murder. In fact, I find it even more grotesque than the original murder.

And, if vengeance is the motivation for convictions - and let's all be honest, that is a main part of the penalty phase of convictions - I can think of sentences that would be far worse than the DP.

We all like to tell ourselves that prisons are supposed to be rehabilitative. OK. Let's keep saying that. But, for a capital murder conviction, put them away in an area where there is ZERO rehab spent on them. House the fuckers. That's it. And, for the mistakes - plenty of them - at least we can still fix that.

 

[alan1]

Exactly.

Also, the cost associated with mandatory appeals seriously lengthens the amount of time the surviving loved ones have to wait for justice. I don't find that fair to the loved ones at all.

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Can you name one single reversal of conviction based upon DNA evidence since DNA evidence was used as a method to convict?

 

[Si modo]

That is becasue you have sympathy and empathy for the victim and the victims family.... not the criminals.

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Can you name one single reversal of conviction based upon DNA evidence since DNA evidence was used as a method to convict?

I'm not aware of any, but that doesn't mean that evidentiary mistakes cannot be made. But, I also know that not all capital cases involve DNA evidence, either.

Capital case convictions are not perfect. When they can be, I have no problem with the DP.

Until then, there will still be mistakes made from time to time.

And, I am not willing to sacrifice a single innocent to keep the DP, nor am I willing to make another innocent's family suffer.

It reminds me of that story of the small town; every year they have a lottery to see who is going to get stoned to death because they believe that will keep their way of life from changing. It's just grotesque.

 

[alan1]

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Can you name one single reversal of conviction based upon DNA evidence since DNA evidence was used as a method to convict?

I'm not aware of any, but that doesn't mean that evidentiary mistakes cannot be made. But, I also know that not all capital cases involve DNA evidence, either.

Capital case convictions are not perfect. When they can be, I have no problem with the DP.

Until then, there will still be mistakes made from time to time.

And, I am not willing to sacrifice a single innocent to keep the DP, nor am I willing to make another innocent's family suffer.

It reminds me of that story of the small town; every year they have a lottery to see who is going to get stoned to death because they believe that will keep their way of life from changing. It's just grotesque.

Comparing Shirley Jackson's novella "The Lottery" to this situation is naught but hyperbole.

 

[Si modo]

Can you name one single reversal of conviction based upon DNA evidence since DNA evidence was used as a method to convict?

I'm not aware of any, but that doesn't mean that evidentiary mistakes cannot be made. But, I also know that not all capital cases involve DNA evidence, either.

Capital case convictions are not perfect. When they can be, I have no problem with the DP.

Until then, there will still be mistakes made from time to time.

And, I am not willing to sacrifice a single innocent to keep the DP, nor am I willing to make another innocent's family suffer.

It reminds me of that story of the small town; every year they have a lottery to see who is going to get stoned to death because they believe that will keep their way of life from changing. It's just grotesque.

Comparing Shirley Jackson's novella "The Lottery" to this situation is naught but hyperbole.

Eh, I find it quite similar.

But, if you find it hyperbole, disregard it.

 

[syrenn]

Very much so. They are a priority, but a close second.

But, as Dragon said and to me, THE priority is correct justice, especially in an irreversible penalty.

To me, even a single mistake in meting out the death penalty is one too many. The fact that we've seen plenty of death row inmates released because of incorrect justice scares the crap out of me. In those cases, you've now doubled the number of victims - two families.

Don't bet me wrong... i do not want any mistakes made either. That does not however want me to ever have capitol punishment off the table for murders. Mistakes happen. Even knowing that i am still for the death penalty.

If one of my loved ones who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is innocent is sentenced to death for a murder, now all of his/her loved ones are also surviving victims of murder. Not only that, the case is closed for the original victim and the real murderer will never be found.

It makes me shudder just to think of that possibility - wrongful conviction of a loved one of capital murder. In fact, I find it even more grotesque than the original murder.

And, if vengeance is the motivation for convictions - and let's all be honest, that is a main part of the penalty phase of convictions - I can think of sentences that would be far worse than the DP.

We all like to tell ourselves that prisons are supposed to be rehabilitative. OK. Let's keep saying that. But, for a capital murder conviction, put them away in an area where there is ZERO rehab spent on them. House the fuckers. That's it. And, for the mistakes - plenty of them - at least we can still fix that.

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?