The Ethics of Capital Punishment

[Si modo]

Don't bet me wrong... i do not want any mistakes made either. That does not however want me to ever have capitol punishment off the table for murders. Mistakes happen. Even knowing that i am still for the death penalty.

If one of my loved ones who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is innocent is sentenced to death for a murder, now all of his/her loved ones are also surviving victims of murder. Not only that, the case is closed for the original victim and the real murderer will never be found.

It makes me shudder just to think of that possibility - wrongful conviction of a loved one of capital murder. In fact, I find it even more grotesque than the original murder.

And, if vengeance is the motivation for convictions - and let's all be honest, that is a main part of the penalty phase of convictions - I can think of sentences that would be far worse than the DP.

We all like to tell ourselves that prisons are supposed to be rehabilitative. OK. Let's keep saying that. But, for a capital murder conviction, put them away in an area where there is ZERO rehab spent on them. House the fuckers. That's it. And, for the mistakes - plenty of them - at least we can still fix that.

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

 

[Si modo]

Ha. I bet a lot of you didn't expect this view from me.

 

[alan1]

If one of my loved ones who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is innocent is sentenced to death for a murder, now all of his/her loved ones are also surviving victims of murder. Not only that, the case is closed for the original victim and the real murderer will never be found.

It makes me shudder just to think of that possibility - wrongful conviction of a loved one of capital murder. In fact, I find it even more grotesque than the original murder.

And, if vengeance is the motivation for convictions - and let's all be honest, that is a main part of the penalty phase of convictions - I can think of sentences that would be far worse than the DP.

We all like to tell ourselves that prisons are supposed to be rehabilitative. OK. Let's keep saying that. But, for a capital murder conviction, put them away in an area where there is ZERO rehab spent on them. House the fuckers. That's it. And, for the mistakes - plenty of them - at least we can still fix that.

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

There are cases where there is zero doubt about who committed the murder.
Fact of the matter is, most of those cases are tried in court as to the degree of murder, not the innocent or guilt of the murderer.

 

[alan1]

Ha. I bet a lot of you didn't expect this view from me.

Obviously you are a trouble causing troll.

 

[syrenn]

Ha. I bet a lot of you didn't expect this view from me.

You are going to make skys head explode.

But its your opinion... and i like it just the same.

 

[syrenn]

If one of my loved ones who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is innocent is sentenced to death for a murder, now all of his/her loved ones are also surviving victims of murder. Not only that, the case is closed for the original victim and the real murderer will never be found.

It makes me shudder just to think of that possibility - wrongful conviction of a loved one of capital murder. In fact, I find it even more grotesque than the original murder.

And, if vengeance is the motivation for convictions - and let's all be honest, that is a main part of the penalty phase of convictions - I can think of sentences that would be far worse than the DP.

We all like to tell ourselves that prisons are supposed to be rehabilitative. OK. Let's keep saying that. But, for a capital murder conviction, put them away in an area where there is ZERO rehab spent on them. House the fuckers. That's it. And, for the mistakes - plenty of them - at least we can still fix that.

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

So how about we play this out a bit...

So what about a charles manson? Zero doubt of guilt.

 

[Si modo]

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

There are cases where there is zero doubt about who committed the murder.
Fact of the matter is, most of those cases are tried in court as to the degree of murder, not the innocent or guilt of the murderer.

I'm aware that there are.

I'm also aware that there are cases where the convicted murderer was later found innocent.

I'm talking about perfecting the system, if it can be perfected. I cannot reconcile sacrificing an innocent to keep the DP.

Granted, the far majority of those convicted are absolutely guilty. But, even one mistake on an irreversible process is one too may mistakes.

I have no - that's a big zero - sympathy for the guilty when it comes to the DP and I want to make that very clear. I do have sympathy for the few who are wrongfully convicted. In that case, we more than double the surviving victims.

When I weigh the pros and cons of this topic, my personal justice scale always leads my view to no DP, and I have no sympathy for the guilty to even put on that scale.

 

[Ropey]

Ha. I bet a lot of you didn't expect this view from me.

Obviously you are a trouble causing troll.

Si's just being knotty.

Slippery little deevil....

 

[Si modo]

And what about the cases where there is zero doubt you have the wrong person? Is the death penalty still off the table?

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

So how about we play this out a bit...

So what about a charles manson? Zero doubt of guilt.

Yup. Charlie is guilty. No doubt about that. I view him as a complete waste of human.

But, if he has to live so that one other innocent doesn't mistakenly die, I'm OK with that.

I DO think that those convicted of capital crimes should be housed differently. Don't give them the privileges that the non-lifers have. Just the bare basics.

 

[Ropey]

As I said, when (or if) we have a process that ensures that there are zero wrongful convictions in capital cases, I have no problem with the DP.

We don't have that situation now.

So, yes, the DP should be off the table.

So how about we play this out a bit...

So what about a charles manson? Zero doubt of guilt.

Yup. Charlie is guilty. No doubt about that. I view him as a complete waste of human.

But, if he has to live so that one other innocent doesn't mistakenly die, I'm OK with that.

I DO think that those convicted of capital crimes should be housed differently. Don't give them the privileges that the non-lifers have. Just the bare basics.

There are many mentally deficient people kept in protection. He has the chance to hurt others. What about the innocent ones in jail?

 

[Jroc]

Here is the reason for the Captial punishment. I'd kill these bastards myself

Steven Hayes has been convicted of 16 felony counts in the rape and murder of Jennifer Hawke-Petit and tying her two daughters Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11 to their bed and setting them on fire

.


Jurors split over Connecticut home invasion killer Steven Hayes execution | Mail Online

Happier times: A June 2007 photo shows Dr William Petit with his daughters Michaela, front, Hayley, centre rear, and his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit

So is there something wrong with me for wanting to be in a room alone with this fucking piece of scum and chocking the life out of him with my bare hands?

 

[Ropey]

Here is the reason for the Captial punishment. I'd kill these bastards myself

So is there something wrong with me for wanting to be in a room alone with this fucking piece of scum and chocking the life out of him with my bare hands?

No. We all have our views and none of us can effect any real change. Your personal view is just as valid as an opinion as the opinion of anyone else. It's a passionate subject to the Western culture as is abortion.

 

[Si modo]

So how about we play this out a bit...

So what about a charles manson? Zero doubt of guilt.

Yup. Charlie is guilty. No doubt about that. I view him as a complete waste of human.

But, if he has to live so that one other innocent doesn't mistakenly die, I'm OK with that.

I DO think that those convicted of capital crimes should be housed differently. Don't give them the privileges that the non-lifers have. Just the bare basics.

There are many mentally deficient people kept in protection. He has the chance to hurt others. What about the innocent ones in jail?

No, house all the fuckers together. Have all the other non-lifers in a different area.

That's no different than it is now, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Si modo]

Here is the reason for the Captial punishment. I'd kill these bastards myself

Steven Hayes has been convicted of 16 felony counts in the rape and murder of Jennifer Hawke-Petit and tying her two daughters Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11 to their bed and setting them on fire

.


Jurors split over Connecticut home invasion killer Steven Hayes execution | Mail Online

Happier times: A June 2007 photo shows Dr William Petit with his daughters Michaela, front, Hayley, centre rear, and his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit

So is there something wrong with me for wanting to be in a room alone with this fucking piece of scum and chocking the life out of him with my bare hands?

Nope, there is nothing wrong with you at all.

I would never chastise you for feeling that way.

I have no sympathy for the guilty. I only have sympathy for the wrongfully convicted and their families.

 

[Si modo]

There are cases where there is zero doubt about who committed the murder.
Fact of the matter is, most of those cases are tried in court as to the degree of murder, not the innocent or guilt of the murderer.

I'm aware that there are.



I'm talking about perfecting the system, if it can be perfected. I cannot reconcile sacrificing an innocent to keep the DP.

Granted, the far majority of those convicted are absolutely guilty. But, even one mistake on an irreversible process is one too may mistakes.

I have no - that's a big zero - sympathy for the guilty when it comes to the DP and I want to make that very clear. I do have sympathy for the few who are wrongfully convicted. In that case, we more than double the surviving victims.

When I weigh the pros and cons of this topic, my personal justice scale always leads my view to no DP, and I have no sympathy for the guilty to even put on that scale.

I'm also aware that there are cases where the convicted murderer was later found innocent.
link please ?

Quite a few to be found here.

 

[JohnA]

I'm aware that there are.



I'm talking about perfecting the system, if it can be perfected. I cannot reconcile sacrificing an innocent to keep the DP.

Granted, the far majority of those convicted are absolutely guilty. But, even one mistake on an irreversible process is one too may mistakes.

I have no - that's a big zero - sympathy for the guilty when it comes to the DP and I want to make that very clear. I do have sympathy for the few who are wrongfully convicted. In that case, we more than double the surviving victims.

When I weigh the pros and cons of this topic, my personal justice scale always leads my view to no DP, and I have no sympathy for the guilty to even put on that scale.

I'm also aware that there are cases where the convicted murderer was later found innocent.
link please ?

Quite a few to be found here.

of course that link proves the point
NO innocent person has been executed* which is what we are discussing *
those that a reason has been found to give them the benefit of the doubt has been released from prison
the other cases mentioned where not proven innocent just they MAY BE LAWYER TALK

i dont think there any cases of persons executed who should NOT have been
i think there are cases of persons not executed who should have been

 

[Si modo]

I'm also aware that there are cases where the convicted murderer was later found innocent.
link please ?

Quite a few to be found here.

of course that link proves the point
NO innocent person has been executed* which is what we are discussing *
those that a reason has been found to give them the benefit of the doubt has been released from prison

I'm pretty sure that I said convicted and got the DP.

Yup, I did.

 

[Ropey]

Yup. Charlie is guilty. No doubt about that. I view him as a complete waste of human.

But, if he has to live so that one other innocent doesn't mistakenly die, I'm OK with that.

I DO think that those convicted of capital crimes should be housed differently. Don't give them the privileges that the non-lifers have. Just the bare basics.

There are many mentally deficient people kept in protection. He has the chance to hurt others. What about the innocent ones in jail?

No, house all the fuckers together. Have all the other non-lifers in a different area.

That's no different than it is now, if I'm not mistaken.

There are innocent lifers that they are housed with as well. Lock them up alone and exercise them alone?

 

[Si modo]

There are many mentally deficient people kept in protection. He has the chance to hurt others. What about the innocent ones in jail?

No, house all the fuckers together. Have all the other non-lifers in a different area.

That's no different than it is now, if I'm not mistaken.

There are innocent lifers that they are housed with as well. Lock them up alone and exercise them alone?

Whatever is most efficient and effective for the prison to do. I have no experience in prison management. Of course it will not be anywhere near a pleasant experience, but for the innocent ones among them, they are still in a more reversible situation than being dead.

 

[Ropey]

No, house all the fuckers together. Have all the other non-lifers in a different area.

That's no different than it is now, if I'm not mistaken.

There are innocent lifers that they are housed with as well. Lock them up alone and exercise them alone?

Whatever is most efficient and effective for the prison to do. I have no experience in prison management. Of course it will not be anywhere near a pleasant experience, but for the innocent ones among them, they are still in a more reversible situation than being dead.

As far as I am personally concerned, if there can be guarantees that others will not be harmed, then I agree with you Si. It's a pretty tight thing, and I do like the DP to be on the table, just as you say. So, if there is inconclusive evidence I think we are on the same position.

That being said, I personally believe that crimes against children should have the offender kept away from children for their entire life and they get slaps on the hand.

So, the system is skewed as far as I am concerned and it goes all the way to the death penalty which can take a decade or more to conclude, if they conclude.

I'm happy I just have an opinion and nothing more to do with this issue.