The Food Stamp Discussion (POLL)

[Annie]

I missed the post where you first introduced the program in question. All your posts I see seem to take place after you introduced it.

Sounds like you're referring to what i had in mind when I said they should compliment eachother. Each does what it can and refers people to wherever can best help them.

Churches will in all likelihood always be best at treating people as human beings, while the state will usually have access to more resources. I don't want the government giving the churches money but I have no problem with any private assistance program, including a church, referring people to state/county/city programs or working alongside government-run programs to achievce the best results.

I just don't want the church running programs that are publicly funded or the government trying to run the church.

Not very well said, but I think you get what I mean.

Actually I posted before introducing a program I was familiar with. After I posted that, I referred back to it, that's how discussion usually works, no?

Anyways, once again you are ignoring all that was written about it not being a religious program, not funded by government. It's private individuals that want a better community, with people rising with support.

As Paulie alluded to earlier, conservatives are often more progressive than those that call themselves that. Difference is how to address the attempts to make society better.

 

[Jon]

They work those jobs so they can take care of their families, and in this economy, because many times it is the only job available.

You're making excuses for the last two years. We're taking about a program that has been in place for decades.

EVERYONE works so they can take care of their families. Some of us educate ourselves so we have better jobs. Our money is taken from us to provide programs to support those that didn't do so.

You are also assuming people who are educated are getting paid well. Many college grads are working at places like McDonalds, because they have no choice.

College Graduates to See Low Wages for Years - WSJ.com

Right now, when graduating from college, McDonalds seems like the only job they can get right now.

Well, with all the crappy degrees offered these days, I'm not surprised. What exactly does an art history major expect to do after college? You'll get no sympathy from me, dear. Haven't you learned that already?

As for your previous post, I never said uneducated workers weren't necessary in society. But when a person chooses to remain in those positions instead of working to move up, it's their decision. Why should my taxes go to support those decisions? If they would move up, another uneducated worker could start at the entry-level. Instead, we have people making careers out of entry-level positions.

 

[Paulie]

Read my posts again.

Yes, a food bank should provide nutritional food and not candy. Nutrition is the entire point of the assistance. If you don't like it, noone's forcing you to take it. We recognize the right of a poor woman's child to have quality nutrition. I recognize no right for you to use someone else's tax dollars to buy junk food.

A food bank that sets up and place items of food out to choose from is a perfect example of where choices can be controlled legitimately. Obviously the only thing available to you is what's put out.

But if you're going to hand someone money and say 'here, go to the grocery store and buy food', then I'm not ok with controlling people's decisions. The store has items placed out for purchase. If it's food or drink, it's fair game.

And it's not just someone "ELSE'S" tax dollars. Plenty of people on food stamps have paid taxes either currently, or at some point in their lives. It's not just YOUR decision.

 

[JBeukema]

Actually I posted before introducing a program I was familiar with. After I posted that, I referred back to it, that's how discussion usually works, no?

And, as I said, I missed that initial post where you introduced the program in question.

Didn't I just say that?

Anyways, once again you are ignoring all that was written about it not being a religious program, not funded by government.

Where did I say it was religious or funded by government? Are you saying they don't refer people to government programs or church-based programs where appropriate?

I seem to recall specifically praising its secular approach.

Didn't we just a conservation about all this? Somewhere along the lines, communication seems to have broken down.

As Paulie alluded to earlier, conservatives are often more progressive than those that call themselves that. Difference is how to address the attempts to make society better.

By definition, a conservative can only go backwards or stay put.

And I've made it well known that I hold Neoprogressives in disdain, just as I do Liberals.

 

[JBeukema]

But if you're going to hand someone money and say 'here, go to the grocery store and buy food',

What part of 'I don't support such programs' do you not grasp?

 

[Paulie]

Not to mention JB, who decides what's "healthy"?

Someone who exercises regularly and is in good shape is plenty capable of processing a fucking bag of potato chips without negative repercussions to their health.

This nation is morbidly obese as a society and lazy as hell. It's certainly not limited to just the food stamp recipients

 

[Paulie]

But if you're going to hand someone money and say 'here, go to the grocery store and buy food',

What part of 'I don't support such programs' do you not grasp?

Then your point is fucking moot in this discussion.

It's a foregone conclusion that a food bank is only going to offer what it has available to offer. If it isn't putting out cases of soda and bags of potato chips then what the fuck are you even arguing over what people choose to eat for?


You've stated that you would support government assistance along side the private endeavors. So what happens when there's a food bank that has a case of soda donated to it, and it puts it out for availability?

 

[JBeukema]

The point of food assistance is nutrition, pure and simple. Enough to keep you alive and in fair health. ~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition. It's not to fatten you up or give you a tasty treat. It's to give you the means of sustaining your existence in recognition and protection of your right to life and, in combination with education programs, shelter programs, and access to toiletries, showers, and clothing enable you to devote yourself to finding gainful employment and better your own condition. It's a hand up. If you don't like the food, then that's more reason to act to improve your own condition.

When you make people comfortable, you end up with St Mary's in Stockton, Ca, where a number have stayed for years because they have no reason to try to get out of their situation so long as they're guaranteed two hots, a cot, free showers, and no penalty if they use drugs and make no effort to get off the teat. Nobody wins in that situation.

 

[JBeukema]

what the fuck are you even arguing over what people choose to eat for?

I'm not. You are.

So what happens when there's a food bank that has a case of soda donated to it, and it puts it out for availability?

What about it? If something is donated, make use of it. Hell, put it in the bag of the latest folks to get a new job or make some other progress if you want. 'Good work; this just came in and I thought your recent success merited first pick. Have some Coke.'

All funds spent go to the necessities.


What's so hard for you to grasp about priorities?

 

[Paulie]

The point of food assistance is nutrition, pure and simple. Enough to keep you alive and in fair health. ~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition. It's not to fatten you up or give you a tasty treat. It's to give you the means of sustaining your existence in recognition and protection of your right to life and, in combination with education programs, shelter programs, and access to toiletries, showers, and clothing enable you to devote yourself to finding gainful employment and better your own condition. It's a hand up. If you don't like the food, then that's more reason to act to improve your own condition.

When you make people comfortable, you end up with St Mary's in Stockton, Ca, where a number have stayed for years because they have no reason to try to get out of their situation so long as they're guaranteed two hots, a cot, free showers, and no penalty if they use drugs and make no effort to get off the teat. Nobody wins in that situation.

As someone who's been a gym rat for most of my adult life, I've got news for you...

Diet is not the problem in this country. The problem is LAZINESS.

There's ZERO reason why someone who exercises regularly can not enjoy a god damn bag of potato chips or a fucking can of soda.

Not LIVE off of the shit...but just enjoy a fucking snack every once in a while.

 

[JBeukema]

What does a musclehead having a Coke have to do with anything?

Do you always get confused so easily?

 

[Paulie]

what the fuck are you even arguing over what people choose to eat for?

I'm not. You are.

You're not?

You're not sitting here trying to dictate the diets of people who receive assistance, based on what you consider to be "nutrition"?

Quit playing games.

 

[Paulie]

What does a musclehead having a Coke have to do with anything?

Do you always get confused so easily?

Tell me that you haven't made the case for people who receive government assistance to be restricted on what they obtain with that assistance.

 

[JBeukema]

what the fuck are you even arguing over what people choose to eat for?

I'm not. You are.

You're not?

You're not sitting here trying to dictate the diets of people who receive assistance, based on what you consider to be "nutrition"?

Quit playing games.

Who said anything about diet? Oh yeah, you did. Only you did.

The point of food aid is to keep people from starving.

You prevent starvation via nutrition.

Moron.

 

[JBeukema]

What does a musclehead having a Coke have to do with anything?

Do you always get confused so easily?

Tell me that you haven't made the case for people who receive government assistance to be restricted on what they obtain with that assistance.

You're an idiot.

Sending starving African kids a bunch of candy canes is sheer stupidity. Of course you have to give priority to actual nutrition when it comes to nutritional aid, you stupid fuck.

 

[Paulie]

The point of food assistance is nutrition, pure and simple. Enough to keep you alive and in fair health. ~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition. It's not to fatten you up or give you a tasty treat. It's to give you the means of sustaining your existence in recognition and protection of your right to life and, in combination with education programs, shelter programs, and access to toiletries, showers, and clothing enable you to devote yourself to finding gainful employment and better your own condition. It's a hand up. If you don't like the food, then that's more reason to act to improve your own condition.

Your fail here, is not understanding how nutritional needs vary based not only on individual physiology, but the amount of exercise one gets.

 

[JBeukema]

There's a reason we send starving nations dried potatoes and not M&Ms

 

[Paulie]

I'm not. You are.

You're not?

You're not sitting here trying to dictate the diets of people who receive assistance, based on what you consider to be "nutrition"?

Quit playing games.

Who said anything about diet? Oh yeah, you did. Only you did.

The point of food aid is to keep people from starving.

You prevent starvation via nutrition.

Moron.

You fucking made a post about what you believe to be necessary in one's diet for "nutrition" you stupid mother fucker

~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition.

"and what not"

Get the fuck outta here you fucking retard.

You don't know jack fucking shit about nutrition.

 

[JBeukema]

The point of food assistance is nutrition, pure and simple. Enough to keep you alive and in fair health. ~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition. It's not to fatten you up or give you a tasty treat. It's to give you the means of sustaining your existence in recognition and protection of your right to life and, in combination with education programs, shelter programs, and access to toiletries, showers, and clothing enable you to devote yourself to finding gainful employment and better your own condition. It's a hand up. If you don't like the food, then that's more reason to act to improve your own condition.

Your fail here, is not understanding how nutritional needs vary based not only on individual physiology, but the amount of exercise one gets.

What the fuck are you babbling about now?

And people in danger of malnutrition are totally worried about whether they're getting enough protein to sustain another half-pound of muscle gain

Also you need to learn what the '~' symbol means. (Hint: people use it because they don't want to hunt down ASCHII codes)

 

[Paulie]

The point of food assistance is nutrition, pure and simple. Enough to keep you alive and in fair health. ~2000 kilocalories (Calories) per day for the average active adult. Enough sodium, iron, and whatnot to prevent malnutrition. It's not to fatten you up or give you a tasty treat. It's to give you the means of sustaining your existence in recognition and protection of your right to life and, in combination with education programs, shelter programs, and access to toiletries, showers, and clothing enable you to devote yourself to finding gainful employment and better your own condition. It's a hand up. If you don't like the food, then that's more reason to act to improve your own condition.

Your fail here, is not understanding how nutritional needs vary based not only on individual physiology, but the amount of exercise one gets.

What the fuck are you babbling about now?

And people in danger of malnutrition are totally worried about whether they're getting enough protein to sustain another half-pound of muscle gain

Also you need to learn what the '~' symbol means. (Hint: people use it because they don't want to hunt down ASCHII codes)

I wish I was in person with you so I could beat the fucking point into your fat fucking head.

The point is, fat boy, that if people EXERCISED MORE, they could handle a fucking candy bar and a can of soda every now and then.

One more time...

The problem is not what people are eating. The problem is that they're sitting on their fat fucking asses and watching Maury while they're eating it.

I realize it's hard for you to understand, being as how I'm sure the heaviest object you lift comes from your book collection, but try and visualize your fail here.