We are at $28? How much will the infrastructure spend be? Green New Deal? You’re looking at another $5trn? And I think 1.5x is the Max I d be comfortable with and that’s $36trn and we will be there before the end of Bidens presidency. Wanna bet?How are we going to be close to 2x? I'm not seeing that. Our GDP is at $20T... we aren't even close to spending $40T... What numbers are you looking at?We should never be more than 1.5x. That’s serious leverage. We will be close to 2x post infrastructure bill. I just believe in a balanced budget and holding people accountable aka no more rescue plans.I think we need to have our currency and economy intelligently managed so no I don't think it is infinite, but I also think that many people don't understand the differences between our national budget and personal budgets. They are very different.No. Some debt is fine. Our GDP is ~$10trn? But going 3x that is crazy IMO and this isn’t the last of it as Biden will do a giant infrastructure spend bill. Do you see the money we can print as infinite? Just curious.I'm curious. If we could pay off all of the national debt right now do you think that would be a smart thing to do and put our economy in a better position?Idk...didn’t see their plan. But probably. Democrats and Republicans are equally inept when it comes to balancing the budget. Democrats are just a little worse and their social justice mantra is ridiculous.Did you think the republicans wanted 80% pork that wasn’t related to Covid?I hated the GOP version. Hated it! I am not a Republican. I am an Independent. Trump and I disagree vehemently on debt and it’s uses.The republicans wanted 5x that. Y’all are using different math. Did the republicans want the bill to be 80% pork?Lie. Republicans said they needed certain aspects of it not the full $1.9Trn...I did the math earlier. We needed about $200Bn.Unfortunately WE are all stuck with it.And since they admit it is they should be stuck with the billIt was a 100% partisan bill. Pretty unnerving.I this money is unspent,, and you ask for more.. conversation is over.. we don’t debate commies, commies will pay this backThe economy was bouncing back on its own, we still have 1 trillion unspent, I’m not arguing with you about communist ideas. I just warn you this will not end well for commiesEverything is partisan now. Covid is the cause for the need for this bill and the majority of it funds things effected by Covid. Again, we cam debate the need and effectiveness of the details and there’s damn sure much waste in it not it certainly is not 91% porkSpeed = carelessness. I do not like but have to live with it. To me it's the name. If they called it the economic recovery plan I d have less issue with it but to call it a COVID plan is a lie. And it was 100% partisan. Prior bills, even under Trump and that idiot Bush were bi partisan. There is something rotten in Washington.I’ll agree with you that the government is painfully horrible at executing pretty much everything except for military and emergency services. They waste and poorly plan and have no accountability. That’s a different conversation though. I could go all day about how bad government is at things. But the fact is they are playing with play money and it is in the interest of our economic success to get people healthy, back to school, back to work, and then out there spending money. Currency needs to circulate. Giving your dad a check isn’t that bad as long as he spends it. That shit gets taxed a few times and it’s right back in the the govs pocket. Cam you imagine how they would execute a plan that was more picky on qualifying people who were actually impacted to a point where they were really impacted and really need the money? Which is a ton of people BTW... it would be a disaster and take a decade for them to figure out. Speed is key hereRight if you shut down you may improve health but you certainly weaken the earning potential of businesses and persons so it needs to be a balancing act. But the Govt must not interfere. It should be up to the individual. PPP loans have gone out of control and the criteria was so basic that many businesses that didn’t need the money still got it. Pretty sad and short sighted. I hate that program. I hate all bail outs.Well I imagine mandated shut downs would be against you’re free market beliefs as well and since those happened and it impacted our entire nation then I’d think you’d understand and support the need to rectify and help support some of the damage doneNo we are not. They used COVID as an excuse to pass pork IMO. $200bn should have been enough. I believe in free markets so cutting checks to people is against my fundamental beliefs. I could Almost tolerate it if it were for those in the restaurant, fitness, hospitality, airline industries but the way they did it was stupid and inefficient. They used COVID as an excuse to issue checks to garner future votes IMO.Not really. We can talk about need and execution and effectiveness if you’d like but this discussion was started on the basic premise that only 9% of the relief Bill had anything to do with COVID. I consider you an intelligent person so I hope we can agree that that point is absurd and the majority of the bill has to do with COvId though I think it safe to say that you disagree with the need for most of it. We on the same page with that?But we are determining need based on false criteria. My parents for example. We are measuring income vs wealth.I believe I highlighted the “others” and the pension items amongst those that I thought were not relevant to COVID. Issuing checks is the quickest and cleanest way to get money to those in need and to stimulate an economy that has been depressed because of COVIDThen explain how *other helps COVID-19. How is funding underfunded pension fund help with COVID-19? How is issuing checks to those unlikely to be impacted by the virus help cure the virus?No, I don’t care if you disagree. You’re free to do so. If you want to debate any items I’m happy to do so. Also fine agreeing to disagree.I disagree. So now what? We yell at each other. I have an MBA from NU and an undergrad in business and finance from Duke. I run my own financial consulting company. What are your credentials?Oh I think the majority of the bill has to do with COVID and the 9% thing is a totally ridiculous lie. I highlighted the $ totals in bold that I don't think have to do with COVID. The rest obviously does. You can argue that is too much or not necessary but you can’t say it’s unrelated to CovidMy calculations show 9.83%. What did you want to add to it from your link? You saw my math.I'm pretty conservative when it comes to spending so I do think this bill is way overloaded and lack accountability or responsible execution. However, right now I'm addressing the lie that only 9% has anything to do with COVID. Thats compete BSThey already have unemployment and initially they got an extra $600 per week! I did include it in restaurants and bars as many lost jobs there and in PPP which is there to ensure that companies don't lay people off. Do you know how PPP works? How much more "free money" do people need when the vaccines are here and we are opening up vs. closing down?Why didn't you include unemployment? Surely you'd acknowledge that people lost their jobs because of COVID. Correct?So I count 9.83% for COVID...from your site and I am being generous with school lunch and animalsI literally just showed how over 20% is going direct to the people. Not those entities you just named. What’s wrong with you... are you retarded?Every Economist says the economy is going to rebound jobs are coming back there is absolutely no reason to put our children into debt. Especially when 91% is going to foreign countries democrat donors lobbyist and buying votes.Really? Our economy has been decimated for a year with lay offs and shut downs. You don’t think providing direct checks to low and mid income citizens is providing relief and stimulus for the depression? I certainly do, it’s far front he proclaimed pet project pork that they are claiming comprises 91% of this Bill. what’s your argument that it is not Covid relief?How is paying people $1,400 helping with COVID relief? I am not following the logic?I'm sorry your "high"ness... Here you goYou never gave me numbers you said comprise. LolWhy are you arguing about this nonesense instead of just making a real counter argument and proving my number wrong. I think it’s because you’re lazy and you know you can’t do it so you’re distracting. That’s pretty weak“ Comprise” is t math.. comprise right here let’s see them numbers skippyThat’s because you skipped your turn Skippy. This is a give take thing. You don’t get to pepper me with question after question and do no work yourself. I gave you the numbers. Your argument was shredded and you look like a fool. Provide a substantial counter argument or retire to your cave. If you give a thoughtful response then I’ll address your next questionYou gave no numbers to the amount of Americans getting checks.. aliens created the vaccine!? HuhProve it... your just saying stuff now. I showed my work. You’re just saying shit. Aliens created the vaccine and are paying for the stimulus.... does that mean anything to you?! Because it’s on par with the way you are presenting your argumentsYou’re not even aware of that many Americans are excluded from getting Covid payments. LolAnd I answered with numbers. Now it’s your turn. I’m not your bitch here to answer all your questions. I made my point and backed it up with math. If you think my math is wrong or numbers are wrong then show why. Stop being lazy, you’re losing this one.I asked you first let’s go boyProve it. You’re words don’t mean anything to me. Show your workLol see your dishonest you’re counting Americans disqualified from getting any relief.Haha. I’m not doing the work for you. I did my part now you do yours. Make a counter argument and show your math or concede what we both already know. I’m right and you’re wrongYou said it comprises to 1,400 .. how many Americans are getting this?No no. I’m not doing all the work here. I just showed you the numbers. If you think I’m wrong then show otherwise and prove me wrong but I’m not letting brain dead trolls waste my time. Your turnNot so fast lol math on that ?It comprises $400 billion
This latest Democratic proposal for $1,400 payments for singles earning up to $75,000 and couples earning up to $150,000 would cost about $422 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation, a nonpartisan arm of Congress that analyzes the costs of different legislation.
So $422B / $1.9T = 22% So I picked up an extra percent... And this is just one simple element of the stimulus. Your argument that only 9% is going towards Covid relief is shattered. It's quite embarrassing that you would even entertain that claim as true let alone stand behind it. Are you capable of thinking for yourself?
COBRA Paid leave School lunch Testing/Tracing Public Health Workforce Funeral Expenses Distribution Restaurants and Bars EIDL PPP Animal Total COVID $ 189 Total Bill $ 1,927
Ways & Means Provide $1,400-per-person stimulus checks $422 billion Extend unemployment programs through August 29 with a $400/week supplement $246 billion Expand Child Tax Credit, Child Care Tax Credit, and Earned Income Tax Credit mostly for one year $143 billion Provide grants to multi-employer pension plans and change single-employer pension funding rules $58 billion Temporarily expand ACA subsidies for two years and subsidize 2020 and 2021 coverage $45 billion Extend paid sick leave and employee retention credit $14 billion Subsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers* $8 billion Repeal rule allowing multinational corporations to calculate their interest expenses including foreign subsidiaries -$22 billion Other policies $9 billion Oversight & Reform Provide money to state governments $195 billion Provide money to local governments, territories, and tribes $155 billion Create paid COVID leave for federal workers and other policies $0.4 billion Education & Labor Provide funding for K-12 education $129 billion Provide funding for colleges and universities $40 billion Increase the federal minimum wage to $15/hour by 2025 $54 billion Provide support for child care, grants to child care providers, and Head Start $40 billion Subsidize COBRA coverage for laid-off workers* $10 billion Extend nutrition assistance in place of school lunch for the duration of the emergency and other food assistance $7 billion Human services, labor programs, and other policies* $11 billion Energy & Commerce Increase funding for testing and contract tracing $50 billion Increase public health workforce and investments $19 billion Fund vaccine distribution, confidence, and supply chains $16 billion Increase Medicaid payments to states that newly expand Medicaid under the ACA $16 billion Allow states to expand Medicaid coverage for prisoners close to release and for pregnant and postpartum women for 5 years $9 billion Remove the cap limiting how much drug manufacturers must rebate to Medicaid for drugs that have increased quickly in price -$18 billion Other policies* $31 billion Transportation & Infrastructure Increase funding for the Disaster Relief Fund and cover funeral expenses related to COVID $47 billion Provide grants to transit agencies $28 billion Provide grants to airports and aviation manufacturers $11 billion Provide grants to communities under economic stress $3 billion Grants to Amtrak and other transportation-related spending $2 billion Financial Services Provide emergency rental assistance and assist homeless $30 billion Provide grants to airlines and contractors to freeze airline layoffs through September $12 billion Use Defense Production Act to buy and distribute medical supplies $10 billion Provide mortgage payment assistance $10 billion Reauthorize and fund the State Small Business Credit Initiative $9 billion Small Business Provide grants to restaurants and bars that lost revenue due to the pandemic $25 billion Provide additional EIDL Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business $15 billion Allow more PPP loans and expand eligibility to certain non-profit and digital media companies $7 billion Other policies $3 billion Veterans’ Affairs Provide funding for health care services, facilities, and copays for veterans $16 billion Fund job training assistance programs for veterans and other VA administrative costs $1 billion Agriculture Increase nutrition assistance $6 billion Pay off loans and other programs for socially disadvantaged farmers $5 billion Purchase and distribute food to needy individuals $4 billion Testing and monitoring for COVID in rural communities and among animal populations $1 billion Foreign Affairs (no legislation reported yet) $10 billion Natural Resources (no legislation reported yet) $1 billion Science, Space, & Technology (no legislation reported yet) $1 billion Total* $1.927 trillion
I think my points and arguments matter more than my credentials but since you asked... I have a mechanical engineering degree from UCSB and have been involved in 6 different start ups from founding level, to VP, to BOD, to consultant level. I currently run and own two small businesses and spend my free time coaching golf for a high school
But in a Jan. 27 blog post, the budget group warned that figuring out how much money remains is complicated. It’s not, they wrote, as though the money is "sitting in budget accounts waiting to be allocated."
"Much of it is already allocated or scheduled to be spent, and a small portion will never be spent," they wrote.
A large fraction of the nominally unspent money comes from the Response and Relief Act, passed in late December.
"These funds will take some time to disburse and even more time to appear in the data," they said.
PolitiFact | Has $1 trillion in COVID-19 relief gone unspent?
yes all republicans voted no on it whereas 59% of republicans said they needed it.
Our GDP was over $21T in 2019 not $10T. Does that change anything for you?
