The Heart of the AGW Premise Fails Empirical Review.

[SSDD]

I looked at the equation for heat loss and it's a gross number T1-T for greater temperature minus lower temperature. Where do you add back the imaginary heat transferred from the cooler object back to the warmer one

It's magic. It is interesting how these guys will just interpret a straight forward statement, or a simple equation to mean whatever they want it to mean as if that were acceptable science. And then howl like zealots at anyone who doesn't join them in their faith.

It's interesting that you have no sources that back up your claims about one way flow of radiation.

Actually I provided some above...and then there is always the second law of thermodynamics which states my position very explicitly.


Second Law of Thermodynamics: It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object.

Now if you believe that radiation is not energy.....or is somehow exempt because the second law doesn't explicitly name every sort of energy there is then go ahead and say it so we can proceed to laugh you right off the board...because it is clear that you believe that radiation is either not energy, or is somehow exempt from the second law which states clearly that energy can not flow spontaneously from cool to warm...and radiation is defined as energy emitted in particles or waves...radiation is energy and the second law covers all energy in any form....so tell us specifically what you believe radiation to be and how you believe it is exempt from the second law....go ahead...say it..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I looked at the equation for heat loss and it's a gross number T1-T for greater temperature minus lower temperature. Where do you add back the imaginary heat transferred from the cooler object back to the warmer one

The Stefan-Boltzmann constant, symbolized by the lowercase Greek letter sigma (

), is a physical constant involving black body radiation. A black body, also called an ideal radiator, is an object that radiates or absorbs energy with perfect efficiency at all electromagnetic wavelength s. The constant defines the power per unit area emitted by a black body as a function of its thermodynamic temperature .

What is Stefan-Boltzmann constant? - Definition from WhatIs.com

Power emitted. Not heat.

So does heat radiates from cooler to warm?

Plug in the temperature of the cool object.
That tells you how much it radiates.

Now plug in the temperature of the warm object.
That tells you how much it radiates.

You see, they both radiate at the same time.

But the formula states, e.g. 200F- 100F = 100F, it's all one way. There's no heat flowing upstream.

 

[Wuwei]

I am sure that you would be unaware of the fact, but in classical theory...that would be theory supported by actual evidence as opposed to pure modelling, whether or not an accelerating charge necessarily radiates...once more, you are just a dupe..

There are countless experiments that show that under a variety of different conditions of accelerating charges, that they do radiate EM energy... yes, observed, measured, and quantified experiments that were done before the theory was conceived. The theory came later, first from Maxwell's equations classically and then in quantum mechanics. If this were not the case then all of science would fail. But of course you already think science has failed and you don't believe in it. Ask the 372 thousand physicists about it.

 

[Wuwei]

" It is not possible for heat to flow from a colder body to a warmer body without any work having been done to accomplish this flow. Energy will not flow spontaneously from a low temperature object to a higher temperature object"

That is a pretty straight forward declarative sentence...it speaks in absolutes. Do explain exactly what, in that statement suggests to you that there is some hidden meaning, or a suggestion that energy might move spontaneously from cool to warm...and tell me, are you under the impression like toddster that somehow photons aren't energy or are exempt from the second law?

The same old trite "face value" interpreting words out of context. I gave you a reference many times. The meaning isn't hidden. Read the hyperphysics site again for the explanation that 372 thousand physicists accept.

 

[Wuwei]

They can't read the equation and state in plain English what it says. The don't seem to grasp the fact that in order for an equation to express net, there has to be an expression within the equation that calculates net.

The SB equation does express net. This is what 372 thousand scientists believe:

For a substance at temperature T₁
and the background at temperature T₂.

Emission: Rₑ = eσT₁⁴

Absorption: Rₐ =eσT₂⁴

The net rate of EM energy exchange:

Rnet = Rₑ - Rₐ = eσT₁⁴ - eσT₂⁴ = eσ(T₁⁴ – T₂⁴)

 

[Wuwei]

Also my bad for posting up without editing, I'm watching TV and talking to my wife while jotting down a few things I'm gonna humiliate you so bad over, you're gonna think your mouse hand got paralyzed when you can't make it move over, grab that mouse, and just answer some questions about your dipstick teachings.

Hopefully you can read it now.

Even if you could, you're still too f***g stupid to answer,

but I need to let everyone know what I'm gonna be doing to you so.

Ta-tah, stupid. I'll be back soon, and you better have some answers for me.

Or you're gonna be sorry you don't.

Your two posts were quite amusing. You shouldn't be talking to Tod. SSDD is much closer to your conversation level.

 

[Allen Eltor]

Also my bad for posting up without editing, I'm watching TV and talking to my wife while jotting down a few things I'm gonna humiliate you so bad over, you're gonna think your mouse hand got paralyzed when you can't make it move over, grab that mouse, and just answer some questions about your dipstick teachings.

Hopefully you can read it now.

Even if you could, you're still too f***g stupid to answer,

but I need to let everyone know what I'm gonna be doing to you so.

Ta-tah, stupid. I'll be back soon, and you better have some answers for me.

Or you're gonna be sorry you don't.

Your two posts were quite amusing. You shouldn't be talking to Tod. SSDD is much closer to your conversation level.

Todd's a hick who thought a magical gaissiness dun turn't a cold nitrogen bath into a magical heedur.

 

[Allen Eltor]

Also my bad for posting up without editing, I'm watching TV and talking to my wife while jotting down a few things I'm gonna humiliate you so bad over, you're gonna think your mouse hand got paralyzed when you can't make it move over, grab that mouse, and just answer some questions about your dipstick teachings.

Hopefully you can read it now.

Even if you could, you're still too f***g stupid to answer,

but I need to let everyone know what I'm gonna be doing to you so.

Ta-tah, stupid. I'll be back soon, and you better have some answers for me.

Or you're gonna be sorry you don't.

Your two posts were quite amusing. You shouldn't be talking to Tod. SSDD is much closer to your conversation level.

Glancing back it seems you believe "magical gaissiness dun made a cold bath a HeeDur."

Do you want to answer for your magic gas barking friend who's gone mute?

Tell everyone reading about your church;
and how they convinced you a cold nitrogen bath is a heater

and that putting insulation between a light and a rock
so
every time more insulation
makes the rock get less light warming it,
sensors indicate more light warming it.

Whenever you grow the guts to mention your church to me

you start barking, therm-0-billy fraud, you do that. I'm talking to you right now and I said your whole church is fake and that not a single word of it's true, and that I can prove how stupid you are for believing it possibly could have been.

If you'd have had the guts, you would have talked about your church. Instead, you thought you'd try to establish some political dominance by telling me who I should talk to.

I'm talking to you right now, stupid. Answer for your friend who has locked up like the public school educated underperformer he is. Tell us about your church's teachings, with me here.

 

[Sunsettommy]

The sun is 99.9% of the source, it stands to reason that the planet are warmed by it. Absorbing that SOLAR inflow doesn't mean CO2, N2 and other materials on the planet have become secondary heating sources, they can NOT be because it was originated from the sun, therefore they absorb and emit and that is all, no new energy is introduced outside of Solar energy inflow.

back radiation is NOT a heat source!

N2 is NOT a heat source!

CO2 is NOT a heat source!

No secondary heating source by absorbing solar rays!

The Sun is the only source of energy, the rest gets warmed up because of it.

 

[Allen Eltor]

We're all waiting breath abate for one of you therm-0-billy "a cold bath's a heater" barkers

to proselyte the readers with stirring tales about how

more insulation
between a fire and rock
making less light warm the rock
makes sensors show
more light warming the rock.

 

[IanC]

The sun is 99.9% of the source, it stands to reason that the planet are warmed by it. Absorbing that SOLAR inflow doesn't mean CO2, N2 and other materials on the planet have become secondary heating sources, they can NOT be because it was originated from the sun, therefore they absorb and emit and that is all, no new energy is introduced outside of Solar energy inflow.

back radiation is NOT a heat source!

N2 is NOT a heat source!

CO2 is NOT a heat source!

No secondary heating source by absorbing solar rays!

The Sun is the only source of energy, the rest gets warmed up because of it.

I understand the point you are trying to get across. And I agree.

That still leaves the conundrum of how the surface radiates at roughly 400w/m^2 when the solar insolation is less than that.

 

[IanC]

Also my bad for posting up without editing, I'm watching TV and talking to my wife while jotting down a few things I'm gonna humiliate you so bad over, you're gonna think your mouse hand got paralyzed when you can't make it move over, grab that mouse, and just answer some questions about your dipstick teachings.

Hopefully you can read it now.

Even if you could, you're still too f***g stupid to answer,

but I need to let everyone know what I'm gonna be doing to you so.

Ta-tah, stupid. I'll be back soon, and you better have some answers for me.

Or you're gonna be sorry you don't.

Your two posts were quite amusing. You shouldn't be talking to Tod. SSDD is much closer to your conversation level.

Todd's a hick who thought a magical gaissiness dun turn't a cold nitrogen bath into a magical heedur.

Hahaha. Another pompous fool who breaks into the conversation thinking he has all the answers but doesn't even know what the questions are.

 

[Allen Eltor]

Also my bad for posting up without editing, I'm watching TV and talking to my wife while jotting down a few things I'm gonna humiliate you so bad over, you're gonna think your mouse hand got paralyzed when you can't make it move over, grab that mouse, and just answer some questions about your dipstick teachings.

Hopefully you can read it now.

Even if you could, you're still too f***g stupid to answer,

but I need to let everyone know what I'm gonna be doing to you so.

Ta-tah, stupid. I'll be back soon, and you better have some answers for me.

Or you're gonna be sorry you don't.

Your two posts were quite amusing. You shouldn't be talking to Tod. SSDD is much closer to your conversation level.

Todd's a hick who thought a magical gaissiness dun turn't a cold nitrogen bath into a magical heedur.

Hahaha. Another pompous fool who breaks into the conversation thinking he has all the answers but doesn't even know what the questions are.

You've got the intellect of a man who believed people when they told you that a cold nitrogen bath is a heater.

And that the cold light blocking refrigerants lacing the cold nitrogen bath, reducing temperature of the entire planet 22% before the conduction cooling they do even starts, are the magical core

of the cold nitrogen bath that's a heater.

Actually simpleton my first career was as a working biological, environmental & atmospheric chemist,

and my degree's in Radiation Communications Electronic Engineering: creating, modifying, transmitting, capturing, separating, analyzing and disposing of radiation energy
through the atmosphere,
the vacuum of space,
and the industrial chemistry forming the electronics required to sustain the radiation based space age my friends and I are flying over your befuddled head.

YOU sell shoes at a mall.

 

[Allen Eltor]

The sun is 99.9% of the source, it stands to reason that the planet are warmed by it. Absorbing that SOLAR inflow doesn't mean CO2, N2 and other materials on the planet have become secondary heating sources, they can NOT be because it was originated from the sun, therefore they absorb and emit and that is all, no new energy is introduced outside of Solar energy inflow.

back radiation is NOT a heat source!

N2 is NOT a heat source!

CO2 is NOT a heat source!

No secondary heating source by absorbing solar rays!

The Sun is the only source of energy, the rest gets warmed up because of it.

I understand the point you are trying to get across. And I agree.

That still leaves the conundrum of how the surface radiates at roughly 400w/m^2 when the solar insolation is less than that.

It certainly isn't the cold nitrogen bath,
or the cold light blocking refrigerants taking nearly 25% of the Earth's temperature right off the top before the cold conduction cooling begins.

Apparently you think a cold nitrogen bath is making a planet emit more energy than the sun feeds it.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, fluffy. The cold nitrogen bath is what's making the planet "emit more energy than is going into it."

Yeah a LOT of things EMIT more ENERGY than is coming INTO them.

NOT. That's called "Conservation of Energy" mocking you for being so insufferably ignorant.

"Thuh cold nitchurjin bath dun had moar enurgie comin owt uv it, than wuzza goin in!!!"

Just
f***g
PLEaZe.

 

[IanC]

You've got the intellect of a man who believed people when they told you that a cold nitrogen bath is a heater.

And that the cold light blocking refrigerants lacing the cold nitrogen bath, reducing temperature of the entire planet 22% before the conduction cooling they do even starts, are the magical core

of the cold nitrogen bath that's a heater.

Actually simpleton my first career was as a working biological, environmental & atmospheric chemist,

and my degree's in Radiation Communications Electronic Engineering: creating, modifying, transmitting, capturing, separating, analyzing and disposing of radiation energy
through the atmosphere,
the vacuum of space,
and the industrial chemistry forming the electronics required to sustain the radiation based space age my friends and I are flying over your befuddled head.

YOU sell shoes at a mall.

Another internet poser, hahaha.

The atmosphere is like a battery, that stores and releases energy according to the conditions.

GHGs are one of the pathways to add energy to the atmosphere.

The atmosphere is not simply a heater, or a cooler. It is a reservoir of energy.

 

[Allen Eltor]

Where do you people go to "school"?

Oh that's right, where the average "graduate" leaves the place 30% behind home-schooled, dino-riding Xtian fundie kids in the Missouri Ozarks, teaching themselves the 3rs at their mom and dad's pine board table.

In every single educational metric ever devised by your programmers to hide from you
how insufferably stupid you were when you left the propagandization camps after 12 years.

30% behind home schooled Ozarks fundie kids
in EVERY single EDUCATIONAL METRIC ever DEVISED
to not make you public school zombies look so stupid.

Didn't any of you people think to yourself "I wonder if that's a sign my math aint right when I'm showing MORE LIGHT COMING OUT than is GOING IN..."

IANC tell me the name of the law of thermodynamics governing the temperature of gases, hence the atmosphere.

Tell me where you thought there is a chart of law on this planet showing CO2 having an internal energy as high as Air's. Your church leaders

the men who told you a COLD NITROGEN BATH is a MAGICAL HEATER,
and who told you the COLD light blocking REFRIGERANTS, knocking almost a full quarter of sunlight off the TOP,
are making a
COLD NITROGEN BATH
WARM a sun-warmed rock, 33 DEGREES
when the BATH is many degrees COLDER than the rock,

those men also told you a rickety Unix Hockey Stick generator was "Uh Hoal new field uh mayuth YaW, clymitt mayuth!"

You BELIEVED this?

When these people told you a COLD NITROGEN BATH
is making a ROCK it's cooling
GIVE OFF MORE ENERGY than is GOING INTO IT

you BELIEVED this?

Hey: tell me the name of the law of physics governing the temperatures of gases and Atmospheres.

Write down the equation of the Law here and show me the factor of the law you think

makes a cold nitrogen bath,

a heater.

I'll wait, you keep wiping sweat off your hands and face and neck, and fidget.

 

[Allen Eltor]

You've got the intellect of a man who believed people when they told you that a cold nitrogen bath is a heater.

And that the cold light blocking refrigerants lacing the cold nitrogen bath, reducing temperature of the entire planet 22% before the conduction cooling they do even starts, are the magical core

of the cold nitrogen bath that's a heater.

Actually simpleton my first career was as a working biological, environmental & atmospheric chemist,

and my degree's in Radiation Communications Electronic Engineering: creating, modifying, transmitting, capturing, separating, analyzing and disposing of radiation energy
through the atmosphere,
the vacuum of space,
and the industrial chemistry forming the electronics required to sustain the radiation based space age my friends and I are flying over your befuddled head.

YOU sell shoes at a mall.

Another internet poser, hahaha.

The atmosphere is like a battery, that stores and releases energy according to the conditions.

GHGs are one of the pathways to add energy to the atmosphere.

The atmosphere is not simply a heater, or a cooler. It is a reservoir of energy.

The ATMOSPHERE is a COLD,

LIGHT-BLOCKING

NITROGEN BATH.

It's COOLING GHGs take 22% of the temperature of the planet

OFF the TOP of global atmospheric temperature calculations,

before ANY OTHER MATHEMATICS can PROCEED.

WHO told you,
a COLD NITROGEN BATH,
with light blocking refrigerants in it,

is WARMING the (less) light-warmed ROCK it's conduction chilling?

What's that person's NAME?

 

[IanC]

The sun is 99.9% of the source, it stands to reason that the planet are warmed by it. Absorbing that SOLAR inflow doesn't mean CO2, N2 and other materials on the planet have become secondary heating sources, they can NOT be because it was originated from the sun, therefore they absorb and emit and that is all, no new energy is introduced outside of Solar energy inflow.

back radiation is NOT a heat source!

N2 is NOT a heat source!

CO2 is NOT a heat source!

No secondary heating source by absorbing solar rays!

The Sun is the only source of energy, the rest gets warmed up because of it.

I understand the point you are trying to get across. And I agree.

That still leaves the conundrum of how the surface radiates at roughly 400w/m^2 when the solar insolation is less than that.

It certainly isn't the cold nitrogen bath,
or the cold light blocking refrigerants taking nearly 25% of the Earth's temperature right off the top before the cold conduction cooling begins.

Apparently you think a cold nitrogen bath is making a planet emit more energy than the sun feeds it.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, fluffy. The cold nitrogen bath is what's making the planet "emit more energy than is going into it."

Yeah a LOT of things EMIT more ENERGY than is coming INTO them.

NOT. That's called "Conservation of Energy" mocking you for being so insufferably ignorant.

"Thuh cold nitchurjin bath dun had moar enurgie comin owt uv it, than wuzza goin in!!!"

Just
f***g
PLEaZe.

The earth/atmosphere system receives an average of 340w/m^2 from the Sun. 100w of solar insolation is reflected at various levels. The remaining 240w is absorbed (at different levels) and that solar insolation is converted to IR. 240w of IR leave the system.

That leaves the problem of how the surface is radiating at the average rate of 400w. I know the answer. Do you?

 

[Allen Eltor]

The sun is 99.9% of the source, it stands to reason that the planet are warmed by it. Absorbing that SOLAR inflow doesn't mean CO2, N2 and other materials on the planet have become secondary heating sources, they can NOT be because it was originated from the sun, therefore they absorb and emit and that is all, no new energy is introduced outside of Solar energy inflow.

back radiation is NOT a heat source!

N2 is NOT a heat source!

CO2 is NOT a heat source!

No secondary heating source by absorbing solar rays!

The Sun is the only source of energy, the rest gets warmed up because of it.

I understand the point you are trying to get across. And I agree.

That still leaves the conundrum of how the surface radiates at roughly 400w/m^2 when the solar insolation is less than that.

It certainly isn't the cold nitrogen bath,
or the cold light blocking refrigerants taking nearly 25% of the Earth's temperature right off the top before the cold conduction cooling begins.

Apparently you think a cold nitrogen bath is making a planet emit more energy than the sun feeds it.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, fluffy. The cold nitrogen bath is what's making the planet "emit more energy than is going into it."

Yeah a LOT of things EMIT more ENERGY than is coming INTO them.

NOT. That's called "Conservation of Energy" mocking you for being so insufferably ignorant.

"Thuh cold nitchurjin bath dun had moar enurgie comin owt uv it, than wuzza goin in!!!"

Just
f***g
PLEaZe.

The earth/atmosphere system receives an average of 340w/m^2 from the Sun. 100w of solar insolation is reflected at various levels. The remaining 240w is absorbed (at different levels) and that solar insolation is converted to IR. 240w of IR leave the system.

That leaves the problem of how the surface is radiating at the average rate of 400w. I know the answer. Do you?

Wrong answer, stupid. The light that never reaches the surface of the planet is nearly all refracted to space. THAT'S WHY EVERY SINGLE WATT THEY STOP from REACHING the SURFACE is TAKEN off the TOP of the EARTH'S TEMPERATURE CALCULATION before ANY OTHER PROCESSING takes PLACE.

As far as your Quack claim the Earth is emitting more energy than the sun provides and the Earth augments,

that's called "you were so stupid you thought a cold nitrogen bath chilling a warm rock, was violating Conservation of Energy."

Of course if you think you want to claim the Earth's generator is contributing more that's fine:

but you're a stupid as you've already had me show you to be

when you think you're gonna sit there and tell me a cold nitrogen bath, made the light warmed rock it MADE less light WARM
while it was CONDUCTION CHILLING IT

made MORE light leave the ROCK
it was making LESS light GET to
before it CONDUCTION CHILLED IT many more DEGREES.

 

[IanC]

You've got the intellect of a man who believed people when they told you that a cold nitrogen bath is a heater.

And that the cold light blocking refrigerants lacing the cold nitrogen bath, reducing temperature of the entire planet 22% before the conduction cooling they do even starts, are the magical core

of the cold nitrogen bath that's a heater.

Actually simpleton my first career was as a working biological, environmental & atmospheric chemist,

and my degree's in Radiation Communications Electronic Engineering: creating, modifying, transmitting, capturing, separating, analyzing and disposing of radiation energy
through the atmosphere,
the vacuum of space,
and the industrial chemistry forming the electronics required to sustain the radiation based space age my friends and I are flying over your befuddled head.

YOU sell shoes at a mall.

Another internet poser, hahaha.

The atmosphere is like a battery, that stores and releases energy according to the conditions.

GHGs are one of the pathways to add energy to the atmosphere.

The atmosphere is not simply a heater, or a cooler. It is a reservoir of energy.

The ATMOSPHERE is a COLD,

LIGHT-BLOCKING

NITROGEN BATH.

It's COOLING GHGs take 22% of the temperature of the planet

OFF the TOP of global atmospheric temperature calculations,

before ANY OTHER MATHEMATICS can PROCEED.

WHO told you,
a COLD NITROGEN BATH,
with light blocking refrigerants in it,

is WARMING the (less) light-warmed ROCK it's conduction chilling?

What's that person's NAME?

The atmosphere is WARM compared to space.

Greenhouse gases absorb more energy close to the surface than they release at higher altitude.