The Incredible Shrinking Deficit

[Redfish]

If the deficit is lower this year, why do the dems insist on raising the debt ceiling?

 

[Papageorgio]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now estimating this years deficit will end up at $642 billion, or 4% of the GDP. That would be the lowest level of annual deficit since the recession started.

There are several reasons which you can see here:

The Mystery of the Incredible Shrinking Budget Deficit | TIME.com

The bottom line is that the huge deficits we've seen in recent years were driven by the recession. Lower tax revenue, plus recession related spending, equaled big deficits...just as everyone but the Republican's have been saying all along.

So the deficit isn't shrinking, it is still growing, just at a slower rate. So, it is still bad news because we are still going into debt everyday. We are still going to owe more tomorrow than today.
Sort of dishonest to claim the deficit is shrinking, when in fact, it is still growing.
Better to say the deficit is growing at a slower pace.
However, honesty seems lost.

 

[Papageorgio]

.

So does this mean the sequester was/is a good thing?

.

Seems like it, it is slowing the growing deficit.

 

[mudwhistle]

If the government can pump NEW money into the economy at will?

Would most of us agree that the money is then fiat?

I mean you guys bitch about that problem all the time, right? Fiat dollars?

Well then take the next logical leap and ask youRselves this question.


IF THE DOLLAR IS NOTHING BUT MEANINGLESS FIAT FAKERY, THEN HOW REAL CAN THE DEBTS COMPUTED IN THOSE DOLLARS BE?

Revenues have gone up due to tax increases. Income taxes is just a small piece of the pie.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yes, the currency is fiat. It's a floating currency that is not backed by anything except good faith in the US of A government and their ability to TAX productive people, or confiscate wealth for repayment.

 

[Seawytch]

If a Republican President had lowered the deficit to the same degree, we'd never hear the end of it...but since that's never happened...

 

[mudwhistle]

If the deficit is lower this year, why do the dems insist on raising the debt ceiling?

Because deficit spending still raises the debt.

 

[Redfish]

If the deficit is lower this year, why do the dems insist on raising the debt ceiling?

Because deficit spending still raises the debt.

of course, but libs like wytchey and the OP don't grasp that simple truth.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Not any more it doesn't. The debt clock stopped. We shoudl either be thankful that the spending is still occurring while no debt is being raised. Or we should be a lot concerned because this type of thing is where the tire meets the road in economic calamity.

 

[Redfish]

If a Republican President had lowered the deficit to the same degree, we'd never hear the end of it...but since that's never happened...

Sooooooooo, instead of increasing the debt by 1 trillion this year, obozo will only increase it by 700 billion---- BFD.

We will still be further in debt at the end of the year than we were in January.

I guess we can say that the trend is good, but its far from good fiscal news.

 

[Redfish]

not any more it doesn't. the debt clock stopped. we shoudl either be thankful that the spending is still occurring while no debt is being raised. Or we should be a lot concerned because this type of thing is where the tire meets the road in economic calamity.

huh?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/307927-debt-clock-frozen.html

 

[Redfish]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/307927-debt-clock-frozen.html

LOL missed that

 

[jasonnfree]

Yes, the currency is fiat. It's a floating currency that is not backed by anything except good faith in the US of A government and their ability to TAX productive people, or confiscate wealth for repayment.

And this fiat currency system has worked well for decades. I've heard this fiat currency complaint from the scare mongers going on for over forty years and economic collapse hasn't happened yet.
And oh, the government's ability to tax being denounced again. How can a government be run without the power to tax?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now estimating this years deficit will end up at $642 billion, or 4% of the GDP. That would be the lowest level of annual deficit since the recession started.

There are several reasons which you can see here:

The Mystery of the Incredible Shrinking Budget Deficit | TIME.com

The bottom line is that the huge deficits we've seen in recent years were driven by the recession. Lower tax revenue, plus recession related spending, equaled big deficits...just as everyone but the Republican's have been saying all along.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That is why the stink on Benghazi and the IRS scandal under a Bush appointee. The 'Conservatives' really need something to point to, since all their economic predictions have been totally shown to be shit. Unemployment stats slowly declining. Home prices coming back. Market doing great. And the nations in Europe that tried the austerity that the GOP was so heartily reccomending doing poorly while we continue to improve, really makes the predictions of GOP look silly.

We could still lose every bit of progress we've seen since President Obama took office.

.

 

[DiamondDave]

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now estimating this years deficit will end up at $642 billion, or 4% of the GDP. That would be the lowest level of annual deficit since the recession started.

There are several reasons which you can see here:

The Mystery of the Incredible Shrinking Budget Deficit | TIME.com

The bottom line is that the huge deficits we've seen in recent years were driven by the recession. Lower tax revenue, plus recession related spending, equaled big deficits...just as everyone but the Republican's have been saying all along.

No.. they were not driven by the recession.. they were driven by a government style that thinks it is the responsibility of government to try and spend its way out of a recession.. AKA liberal politics...

It is like Obamalama took over a company that was losing $1000 a day. He suddenly started spending on gold faucets, paying to replace tile that was replaced 2 years prior, bought a fleet of 12 vehicles for a company of 10 people, and gave out freebies to half of the customer base while charging his other customers more... He made the company start losing $2000 a day.. and 5 years later pats himself on the back when the company is only losing $1800 a day, calling it a deficit reduction

 

[editec]

If the government can pump NEW money into the economy at will?

Would most of us agree that the money is then fiat?

I mean you guys bitch about that problem all the time, right? Fiat dollars?

Well then take the next logical leap and ask youRselves this question.


IF THE DOLLAR IS NOTHING BUT MEANINGLESS FIAT FAKERY, THEN HOW REAL CAN THE DEBTS COMPUTED IN THOSE DOLLARS BE?

It is as real as the actual amount of real wealth fiat money destroys as we race to the bottom.

How is that real wealth destroyed? (first explain what that real wealth really is, okay?)

See, that's the REAL problem with central planners and their printing press on legal tender. As they print, they first confiscate wealth through diminished purchasing power, inflation and redistribution schemes.

Ih I get thatm for sure...my first question still needs to be answered. How is that wealth destroyed?

Or did you actually means that the ownership of that wealth was TRANSFERRED?

But that's not all, once the shit house starts to burn down, they will use protectionist measures to secure themselves and pay their creditors. This will happen here too. They may decide another confiscation of gold is in order (a true stroe of wealth), or several other measures. But in the end, this policy will gobble up all the real wealth as it goes down in flames.

Okay, so now I know you believe GOLD is real wealth. How do FIAT dollars DESTROY that gold?

I appreciate you attempting to answer my question.

There is NO answer to it though.

Until we understand that money is nothing but a promise, and that wealth is not money (and that GOLD is not (or rather is seldom really) wealth either) the BANSTERS will continue to bamboozle us.

it is NOT the relationship of money to wealth that matters.

Its the relationship of POWER to wealth that truly matters. Money is just a market and it only matters if the people with POWER say it matters.

Accounting is NOT a physical science, it's rules are ENTIRELY arbitrary

Accounting is a HUMANITY...

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yes, the currency is fiat. It's a floating currency that is not backed by anything except good faith in the US of A government and their ability to TAX productive people, or confiscate wealth for repayment.

And this fiat currency system has worked well for decades. I've heard this fiat currency complaint from the scare mongers going on for over forty years and economic collapse hasn't happened yet.
And oh, the government's ability to tax being denounced again. How can a government be run without the power to tax?

It's worked so well you've lost 98% of your purchasing power, been in recession to depression to recession and back every few years and we have a mountain of debt to show for it. It's working out just wonderfully, for government.....

 

[TakeAStepBack]

If the government can pump NEW money into the economy at will?

Would most of us agree that the money is then fiat?

I mean you guys bitch about that problem all the time, right? Fiat dollars?

Well then take the next logical leap and ask youRselves this question.


IF THE DOLLAR IS NOTHING BUT MEANINGLESS FIAT FAKERY, THEN HOW REAL CAN THE DEBTS COMPUTED IN THOSE DOLLARS BE?

How is that real wealth destroyed? (first explain what that real wealth really is, okay?)

Real wealth is created out of expelled energy. In economics, it is the things that have value. Paper money, only have value based on a claim by government authority. it is not something produced out of the use of expelled energy which stores value. It is the exact opposite of that. It is the epicenter of the law of diminishing returns. It destroys true wealth by posing as actual wealth where none exists.





Ih I get thatm for sure...my first question still needs to be answered. How is that wealth destroyed?

Or did you actually means that the ownership of that wealth was TRANSFERRED?

Such as redistribution schemes. These aren't JUST the social schemes either. Look what happened to homeowners starting in 2006. They lost a giant protion of the store of value in their properties adn homes. All due to central planning on the fiat monetary system. As one example.

But that's not all, once the shit house starts to burn down, they will use protectionist measures to secure themselves and pay their creditors. This will happen here too. They may decide another confiscation of gold is in order (a true stroe of wealth), or several other measures. But in the end, this policy will gobble up all the real wealth as it goes down in flames.

Okay, so now I know you believe GOLD is real wealth. How do FIAT dollars DESTROY that gold?

Jesus, dude. You might want to take a fwe Econ courses or at least read a book on it sometime. No, gold is NOT wealth, though, it is the best store of wealth/value we have ever known. Without productive people expelling energy in markets to exchange, the store of value in gold is as good as any other metal or mineral.

I appreciate you attempting to answer my question.

There is NO answer to it though.

Than WTF did you ask for, genius. And yes there is an answer. I answered it. Your ignorance of the subject is irrelevant.
Until we understand that money is nothing but a promise, and that wealth is not money (and that GOLD is not (or rather is seldom really) wealth either) the BANSTERS will continue to bamboozle us.

Money is a store of value. It's only a promise when there is nothing actually stored underneath it as an exchange unit for confidence. The rest of that is just your own confusion on the subject.

it is NOT the relationship of money to wealth that matters.

?

Its the relationship of POWER to wealth that truly matters. Money is just a market and it only matters if the people with POWER say it matters.

Yes, that's how fiat currencies work. And?

Accounting is NOT a physical science, it's rules are ENTIRELY arbitrary

No, accounting is a mathematical endeavor. The rules aren't arbitrary at all, you boob.

Accounting is a HUMANITY...

???