The Last Thing We Should Do Right Now: Rush Into A Government-run Health Care System

[cowboytom]

Government healthcare has nothing to do with healthcare. It is more money coming in to government just like social security. More money to control people. If government takes in the money and doles out healhtcare you can bet there will be a substantial amount of that money that will never be used for health. Social security account and health care accounts will be exactly the same. Another government slush fund for politicos pleasure. Dont be duped by pretty talk.

 

[Political Junky]

We should continue to make money off of sick people.

The sicker they are, the more they should have to pay.....until they go bankrupt and die.

It's the American Way.

Ridiculously overpriced corporate health care is not that same thing as free market health care. I am not denying there are problems with the current system, I am just refuting that Obama's direction is the correct way to go.

Then surely you have a solution.

 

[oreo]

First of all has anyone seen the government plan. My questions are:

1. How does government pay for a nationalized health care plan?
2. How will it be managed? Government or private sector.
3. Will employers be involved in the play or pay. Either pay for employees insurance program or be fined for not doing so?
4. Will employees that currently have medical insurance paid for by their employers be taxed on those benefits to pay for all of this health care.
5. And finally--will everyone who has no health insurance be covered? Estimates I have heard state that only 16 million--out of 50 million will be covered at a cost of 1.6 TRILLION dollars.

Lots of questions that need to be answered.

 

[Derek_Plumber]

First of all has anyone seen the government plan. My questions are:

1. How does government pay for a nationalized health care plan?
2. How will it be managed? Government or private sector.
3. Will employers be involved in the play or pay. Either pay for employees insurance program or be fined for not doing so?
4. Will employees that currently have medical insurance paid for by their employers be taxed on those benefits to pay for all of this health care.
5. And finally--will everyone who has no health insurance be covered? Estimates I have heard state that only 16 million--out of 50 million will be covered at a cost of 1.6 TRILLION dollars.

Lots of questions that need to be answered.

Thank you for defining the problem, but it is not very helpful.
America is looking for solutions.

We have 46,000,000 people without health coverage right now.

Isn't our graphic as pretty as your post? Get real!

The FIRST Thing We Should Do Right Now is Rush Into A Government-run Health Care System.

People are dying due to inaction!

 

[Lycurgus]

The SOCIALIST - believes that industries should be owned by the people of the nation, not by individuals, and that services like education and health care should be free for everyone. Under socialism, all means of production should be publicly owned. Unlike communists, socialists believe that such things can be achieved through pressure and reform.

The reference to socialism is inaccurate in this context. Universal healthcare and related public good provisions would in fact uphold capitalism if implemented in our current economic structure through the sustainment of the physical efficiency of the working class. It's typically the ignorant rightists who assert that "government = socialism" who claim otherwise.

No whore, you shut your mouth!

 

[Chris]

The rest of the Western world is just laughing at us and our ridiculously expensive healthcare system.

It is killing American business.

 

[garyd]

Yeah and they are also letting older citianes go without life saving treatments.

Chris three things drive health care cost Lawyers, technology and access. Which one do you want to limit?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Thank you for defining the problem, but it is not very helpful.
America is looking for solutions.

We have 46,000,000 people without health coverage right now.

Isn't our graphic as pretty as your post? Get real!

The FIRST Thing We Should Do Right Now is Rush Into A Government-run Health Care System.

People are dying due to inaction!

So we have 46,000,000 people without heath coverage right now?
Why is it we don't see them out there sick and dying in the streets right now?

According to one study, over a third of the uninsured have problems paying medical bills. The unpaid bills were substantial enough that many had been turned over to collection agencies – and nearly a quarter of the uninsured adults said they had changed their way of life significantly to pay medical bills.13

NCHC | Home

If, according to the study, a third of the uninsured have problems paying....then two thirds must NOT be having problems.....

....therefore.... why not just help those 15 mil instead of changing the entire frickkin' health care system.....?

....in fact....why doesn't Obama just set up a government program to help those in need of health care and leave the rest of America alone with their own private health care system.....? ...sure would be a lot cheaper...

 

[Kent.Neidhold]

I worked for Kaiser Permanente for almost three years and rose in the ranks of the campany unusually fast, the entire time I was there I observed not only the patients but the people who take care of the patients and I often asked myself this question. "Say you are graduating from Johns Hopkins at the head of your class and you have multiple offers from numerous medical institutions. Why in the hell would you practice medicine at a place such as Kaiser, when the money is made in the private sector?" My point being this, profit based health care is criminal only because it limits the ability for the quality of healthcare recieved. I've read a lot of the posts on this topic and most of the things I read are about keeping prices down or the idea of a "free market"...this isn't the point. The point is, each person should be afforded the opportunity to see the best doctors available. Too me this is a two fold arrangement, 1. every person is sure to see the best doctors. 2. the amount of people seen and cases assesed will help change the landscape of medical research. Thus opening up the possibilities for cures to horrible diseases.
Of course there will be logisitcal issues to hammer out and developing a way to utilize such ideas.

 

[auditor0007]

Not very American of you to object to competition.

Government competition =/= free market competition. And yes, that statement is VERY American of me.

You really think the government would allow for competition. Before you answer think about this, competition is what keeps things affordable.

Apparently, it has failed miserably as fewer and fewer can afford healthcare. I'm not necessarily saying that government run healthcare is the answer, but the fact is that the free market has made healthcare unaffordable for all but the few, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[auditor0007]

We've got 46,000,000 people in the United States without health coverage.
The FIRST thing we need to do is rush into a program of Government-run health care for everyone.

THEN, cut out the fat-cat corporate types,
starting with the American Medical Association,
which is nothing but a political lobby to keep life cushy for doctors!

The AMA is an interesting entity. In some respects, it helps keep the quacks at bay; on the other hand, it also makes certain doctors follow very strict guidelines. Most doctors are afraid to recommend alternative treatments even when they are known to be effective, because they can lose their license to practice medicine.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Government competition =/= free market competition. And yes, that statement is VERY American of me.

You really think the government would allow for competition. Before you answer think about this, competition is what keeps things affordable.

Apparently, it has failed miserably as fewer and fewer can afford healthcare. I'm not necessarily saying that government run healthcare is the answer, but the fact is that the free market has made healthcare unaffordable for all but the few, and it's only going to get worse.

Our current system has been failing to a great degree because of the MIDDLEMEN mucking up the system.....we do not have a true free market system today...

We need to get rid of the Government, Insurance, and Employer middlemen...and health costs would plummet....this would mean better quality coverage for all concerned...

 

[sealybobo]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

 

[Kent.Neidhold]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

I couldn't agree more. Kaiser Permanente for example is a nonprofit organization but the CEO of Kaiser Permanente makes north of 300k a year for providing less than adequate health care.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

Which is why we need to go to direct pay for our medical services.....prices will plummet....

.....what makes you think that sticking the government in the place of the private insurers is going to make things any better....?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

Which is why we need to go to direct pay for our medical services.....prices will plummet....

.....what makes you think that sticking the government in the place of the private insurers is going to make things any better....?

No answer BoBo?

I guess we anti-socialism morons are just supposed to shut up and look forward to "great" health care like that which was to be found at the "top-notch" government-run Walter Reed Army medical center...

Shit....the government can barely deliver mail.....you think we want them delivering our medical services.....?

 

[Angel Heart]

Prices for medical care wouldn't be so high if the insurance companies refused to pay the high prices. The doctors and hospitals push the insurance companies to the limit, but back off if they ask for too much for each and every procedure and the insurance companies refuse to pay that bracket. The government has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of medical care. That cost bracket is between what the insurance companies are willing to pay and what the medical staff is willing to charge. Our government, and that includes Obama, needs to stay the fuck out of the healthcare business and let the American public decide what road to take.

They also forget to figure in the cost the doctors pay for malpractice insurance. Due to court cases and the extreme awards of punitive damages. Insurance shouldn't pick up the tab of punitive damages. It's meant as a punishment but the one who did the malpractice don't pay for it. Their malpractice insurance covers it. The insurance company covers the cost of it by requiring all doctors in that field of practice pay more for their coverage. Still have them cover the medical care, lost wages, even pain and suffering but no more covering of punitive.

Healthcare Manumission: Malpractice Liability Coverage: The OTHER Health Insurance

 

[sealybobo]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

Which is why we need to go to direct pay for our medical services.....prices will plummet....

.....what makes you think that sticking the government in the place of the private insurers is going to make things any better....?

I notice you left out the FOR PROFIT in your question. Was that on purpose? You should have said, "what makes me think the gov. will do better than the FOR PROFIT insurers.

Because they already know how to do it. MEDICARE/MEDICADE.

And because the Senators have it, and its great. Give us exactly what they get. And they have choices.

And it isn't for profit, so no advertising, ceo bonus' and less administration costs.

AND, if we are all in a pool, we spread the risk out and that lowers the costs dramatically.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[sealybobo]

The FOR PROFITS shot us down in the 90's. Its been over 10 years. Who's rushing. We complained the last 8 years too but the GOP wouldn't listen.

What we don't want to do is wait until 2010 election year. Then it won't happen. Fuck that. Fuck the for profit private insurers.

They are no better than the Oil companies. In fact, they are worse because their prices never come down. The gas guys at least had the common sense to bring prices back down so we weren't forced into nationalizing them too.

I guess the healthcare giants didn't realize that we were serious. Too bad for them. They can find something else to do. They are overpaid anyways. You guys cry about line workers being overpaid.

Which is why we need to go to direct pay for our medical services.....prices will plummet....

.....what makes you think that sticking the government in the place of the private insurers is going to make things any better....?

No answer BoBo?

I guess we anti-socialism morons are just supposed to shut up and look forward to "great" health care like that which was to be found at the "top-notch" government-run Walter Reed Army medical center...

Shit....the government can barely deliver mail.....you think we want them delivering our medical services.....?

They won't be delivering anything. Their job is simple.

Republicans don't just say government is bad, they prove it.

And it isn't socialism. The doctors are still for profit.

Stop using the word socialism when it comes to necessities. Yes, socialize the banks, oil companies and insurance companies if they get out of control.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Which is why we need to go to direct pay for our medical services.....prices will plummet....

.....what makes you think that sticking the government in the place of the private insurers is going to make things any better....?

No answer BoBo?

I guess we anti-socialism morons are just supposed to shut up and look forward to "great" health care like that which was to be found at the "top-notch" government-run Walter Reed Army medical center...

Shit....the government can barely deliver mail.....you think we want them delivering our medical services.....?

They won't be delivering anything. Their job is simple.

Republicans don't just say government is bad, they prove it.

And it isn't socialism. The doctors are still for profit.

Stop using the word socialism when it comes to necessities. Yes, socialize the banks, oil companies and insurance companies if they get out of control.

Of course it will be government-delivered health care....just as we will now have government-delivered cars coming down the pike...

I don't care if Rs or Ds are in control....I don't want either controlling my health care...

Why should I stop using the word socialism when it comes to necessities....? How would you like the government to control the purchase of your food? You wouldn't call that socialism either?

...mmmmm....cheese....