The NIST 9-11 Report on the WTC Collapse

[PredFan]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

Just to reiterate what Mr. Jones is claiming. The important parts are enlarged/colored/bolded.

Because, as I mentioned numerous already...aluminum melts at a lower temp then steel...But, it gets rid of the heat faster then steel. This means that if it was aluminum that was melting, and running "like in a foundry" there had to be a very high, and constant heating source/fuel supply in order for the aluminum to react, and be in a constant state of melting. Where did this heat fuel source come from? How did it manage to last for 100 days despite constant efforts to extinguish it, and even resorting to thousands of gallons of pyrocool?
Steel on the other hand, will hold onto the heat longer then aluminum, still the source of the heat/fuel source to maintain the temps, in aluminum or steel, that were reported and measured remains a mystery.

Mr. Jones thinking is basically that thermite kept the steel molten for 100 days.

Controlled demolition can be completely ruled out with rational thinking. The buildings could not have been rigged to blow prior to the event. There are too many problems, insurmountable problems with that theory.

So whatever we have left has to be the truth. What kept the heat for 100 days? The fuel perhaps, the burning debris perhaps, the 1800 degree steel maybe, probably a combination of all of those plus the sheer amount of rubble preventing the pyrocool from reaching into where the heat was coming from.

It doesn't mean there was a conspracy other than from Al-Queda and OBL.

 

[Gamolon]

I remember that someone once posted a picture here os a beam that was "melted", when actually it was obviously cut by a cutting torch. Probably any molton steel found in the debris was there because of the torches used to remove the steel/rescue survivors/increase safety.

Similar to this one?

Torch cut.

 

[PredFan]

Does the NIST report actually state that there weren't temps high enough?

Nope.

15. Since the melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit) and the temperature of a jet fuel fire does not exceed 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit), how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?

In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

And there we have it.

 

[SAYIT]

Does the NIST report actually state that there weren't temps high enough?

Nope.

15. Since the melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit) and the temperature of a jet fuel fire does not exceed 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit), how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?

In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

And there we have it.

Easy peasy, nice and easy. When skepticism is applied equally to all 9/11 theories the NIST report wins in a landslide. Case closed.

 

[eots]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

but there is mo evidence of these temperatures exsisting in the steel tested

 

[eots]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

Just to reiterate what Mr. Jones is claiming. The important parts are enlarged/colored/bolded.

Because, as I mentioned numerous already...aluminum melts at a lower temp then steel...But, it gets rid of the heat faster then steel. This means that if it was aluminum that was melting, and running "like in a foundry" there had to be a very high, and constant heating source/fuel supply in order for the aluminum to react, and be in a constant state of melting. Where did this heat fuel source come from? How did it manage to last for 100 days despite constant efforts to extinguish it, and even resorting to thousands of gallons of pyrocool?
Steel on the other hand, will hold onto the heat longer then aluminum, still the source of the heat/fuel source to maintain the temps, in aluminum or steel, that were reported and measured remains a mystery.

Mr. Jones thinking is basically that thermite kept the steel molten for 100 days.

Controlled demolition can be completely ruled out with rational thinking. The buildings could not have been rigged to blow prior to the event. There are too many problems, insurmountable problems with that theory.

So whatever we have left has to be the truth. What kept the heat for 100 days? The fuel perhaps, the burning debris perhaps, the 1800 degree steel maybe, probably a combination of all of those plus the sheer amount of rubble preventing the pyrocool from reaching into where the heat was coming from.

It doesn't mean there was a conspracy other than from Al-Queda and OBL.

you can not rule out explosives because you imagine it to be difficult
to place them

 

[Mr. Jones]

“The focus of the Investigation was on the sequence of events from the instant of aircraft impact to the initiation of collapse for each tower. For brevity in this report, this sequence is referred to as the “probable collapse sequence,” although [the investigation] does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached.'-
WTC Disaster Study

the report does not explain what happens after the “collapse” began. This shows that the NIST report essentially a “pre-collapse” initiation theory.
One would have hoped that the 20 million dollars used to fund the NIST study would be enough to at least attempt to answer how the 110 floor, 1/4 mile high, steel (not aluminum) twin towers completely collapsed to the ground.
This shows the absurdity of the NIST report.
The NIST report is irrelevant if it can’t explain the structural behavior of the tower after the collapse began.
It's no wonder why none of you defenders of the NIST can come up with anything when talking about the actual collapses.

The only focus of the report is to prove that the collapse started, not explain what happened after it started, and why the collapse was total and complete. Even more outrageous, NIST can’t even prove convincingly why the collapse began.

NIST, and the insane idiots on here defending what is obviously a BS attempt at covering up evidence to advance a preconceived conclusion, ignore the most important questions and leaves the most important evidence relating to those questions unexamined. This intentional obfuscation of the NIST report is significant because it allows the report to ignore evidence that is devastating to its BS hypothesis, including the unbreakable law of physics known as conservation of momentum.

Also--
NIST’s scientific data contradicted their own theory--
Paint tests indicated low steel temps of 480 F . “despite pre-collapse exposure to fire-
WTC Disaster Study

Microstructure tests showed no steel reached critical half-strength values of 1112 F.
Lab tests showed only minimal sagging
NIST found that there was no floor collapse

“The results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11th."
NIST claims that the temperatures were high enough to weaken the steel, yet their own tests showed that it was not, yet they ignore numerous sightings of molten steel in the wreckage??? LOL....Pointing out the many instances of NIST lies, and disingenuous tactics is easy.

See I can honestly back up my assumptions regarding what I have come to think about NIST, by showing the many instances where they lose credibility and show the telltale signs that scream "cover up"!

However, if you are a person hell bent on being willfully ignorant of what is clear to rational honest and objective people, and if you have to protect your own CT, or protect the liars and criminals as a personal or assigned task, then one can see why you shrills are willing to forgo any semblance of credibility or intellectual honesty when trying to achieve your goal of keeping readers in a state of ignorant bliss...and your arguments fail.

Science demands rejecting a theory if the evidence contradicts it, and NIST "science" completely ignores contradictory evidence at every opportunity.
To make a predetermined conclusion is to accept a theory without examining ALL of the relevant evidence. This is exactly what NIST did, and this was done so the myth of the OCT can revolve around fanatical Islamic extremists who circumvented America's air defenses (using box cutters!) and who managed to completely, and globally destroy 3 buildings with only 2 planes!!!

Even NIST contributor Ronald Hamburger said he had the first impression that it looked like explosive charges had been placed in the WTC buildings. -
Press Releases

According to NIST a building which supported its own weight for 30 years can’t resist the momentum from the collapse even a little. NIST claims a small portion of the building is enough to result in crushing the rest of the building at near FF speed...as if the bottom portion of the undamaged, and significantly more robust steel of the building provided no more resistance than the air in the sky. This is called creating your own scientific reality.
Ignoring this and pretending it is not a valid cause to even question it is either lunacy, or willful and intended attempt to misinform yourself and others.

NIST's assertion that the Towers intact structure was “unable to stop or even to slow the falling mass” is absurd. It requires us to believe that the massive steel frames of the towers (and WTC 7) provided no more resistance to falling rubble than air.
Ignores the fact that the majority of rubble fell outside the towers footprints, and hence could not contribute to any crushing.
And, is unsupported by any calculation or logical argument.

You can’t ignore fundamental laws of physics simply because they are inconvenient to your theory BS! Normally, although not in NIST junk science you are supposed to abandon your theory when it is this easily and credibly able to be disproved, as having the only likelihood of probability..

The information that has been provided by credible folks, that proves the NIST is nothing more then a government agency, readily available to provide aid when needed to cover up the lies of the 9-11 events..
Credibility is defined as “the quality, capability, or power to elicit belief.”
The most reliable form of credibility is based on the scientific method. The least reliable form is established through repeated or pathological lying and combined with willful disregard of verifiable evidence including data, witnesses, and hiding from public view information that is usually made available to others for the intent to replicate a hypothesis.
Dishonesty is the most damning blow to NIST's credibility, and the lying scum that are only here to defend their lies, and the criminals of 9-11...

 

[Mr. Jones]

Does the NIST report actually state that there weren't temps high enough?

Nope.

15. Since the melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit) and the temperature of a jet fuel fire does not exceed 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit), how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?

In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the fires. The melting point of steel is about 1,500 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). Normal building fires and hydrocarbon (e.g., jet fuel) fires generate temperatures up to about 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,000 degrees Fahrenheit). NIST reported maximum upper layer air temperatures of about 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,800 degrees Fahrenheit) in the WTC towers (for example, see NCSTAR 1, Figure 6-36).
However, when bare steel reaches temperatures of 1,000 degrees Celsius, it softens and its strength reduces to roughly 10 percent of its room temperature value. Steel that is unprotected (e.g., if the fireproofing is dislodged) can reach the air temperature within the time period that the fires burned within the towers. Thus, yielding and buckling of the steel members (floor trusses, beams, and both core and exterior columns) with missing fireproofing were expected under the fire intensity and duration determined by NIST for the WTC towers.

FAQs - NIST WTC Towers Investigation

And there we have it.

And as has been explained to you willfully ignorant idiots, the fires in the WTC (all 3 of them) had transient fires. NIST even admits this, and therefore if you really know anything about fires effects on steel, you wouldn't purposefully leave out the fact that if a fire consumes any combustibles, and moves on to feed elsewhere, the effected steel regains much of its strength during this cooling period.
You fucks ignore this on purpose to make others think that once steel is weakened by elevated temps (that NIST has not proven even existed) the steel remains in a permanent weakened state!!
Steel is made with very high temps, and is strengthened AFTER it is cool..This is just another example of the dishonest attempts by you fucks that are here to only misinform others, and you other idiots that actually agree with your "there you have its" are a sorry, stupid, lazy bunch that only wish to have something, even if it's a lie, to further your insane OCT delusion...STFU, and quit hugging each others nutsacks, and do your own research about what is being said instead, you pathetic fucking whack jobs..

You fucks only want others to depend on "does the NIST report say....?"
And rely on other fucks in your circle of disinformation trolls say, without having to really interpret what it actually is saying and how it contradicts itself!!

A prime example of this is evident in the facts I have posted in this thread about the molten pools of steel are seen in the rubble of the WTC buildings, including WTC 7.
BUT, jet fuel and normal fires are incapable of melting steel.
Indeed, NIST claims that “In no instance did NIST report that steel in the WTC towers melted due to the [jet fuel] fires.”
Therefore, logic and honest, rational thinking, dictates that something else melted the steel. However...since NIST purposefully ignores this (and other evidence) the same logic
must be applied when others rightly accuse NIST of deceitful investigation tactics, and call BS when they analyze their subsequent reports...

Scientific Method= Start with the facts and then use them to reach an argument or thesis.
Political (NIST) Method= Start with a thesis and then examine only the facts that confirm the argument. This is exactly what you lying fucks do as well, and it is obvious....and you stoop to incredibly lowdown levels to try to do it too....Aluminum car parts...blaming GZ workers for "not testing" shit...and totally trying to misinform about the transient fires and the cooling and hence re-strengthening of any affected steel....

The Scientific method is significantly more credible as it does not ignore evidence and every detail must be considered. If there is contradictory evidence, a thesis must be rejected in favor of a new thesis which follows all of the given evidence. In contrast, the political method often attempts to preserve its thesis even in the face of contradicting evidence, and you fucks continue to ignore the contradicting evidence and continue to make fools out of yourselves in the process....

Once again you fucking anti American and anti-truth shrills are exposed as the lying, dishonest, deceitful fucks that you really are.

 

[PredFan]

Just to reiterate what Mr. Jones is claiming. The important parts are enlarged/colored/bolded.



Mr. Jones thinking is basically that thermite kept the steel molten for 100 days.

Controlled demolition can be completely ruled out with rational thinking. The buildings could not have been rigged to blow prior to the event. There are too many problems, insurmountable problems with that theory.

So whatever we have left has to be the truth. What kept the heat for 100 days? The fuel perhaps, the burning debris perhaps, the 1800 degree steel maybe, probably a combination of all of those plus the sheer amount of rubble preventing the pyrocool from reaching into where the heat was coming from.

It doesn't mean there was a conspracy other than from Al-Queda and OBL.

you can not rule out explosives because you imagine it to be difficult
to place them

Not difficult, nearly impossible.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Just to reiterate what Mr. Jones is claiming. The important parts are enlarged/colored/bolded.



Mr. Jones thinking is basically that thermite kept the steel molten for 100 days.

Controlled demolition can be completely ruled out with rational thinking. The buildings could not have been rigged to blow prior to the event. There are too many problems, insurmountable problems with that theory.

So whatever we have left has to be the truth. What kept the heat for 100 days? The fuel perhaps, the burning debris perhaps, the 1800 degree steel maybe, probably a combination of all of those plus the sheer amount of rubble preventing the pyrocool from reaching into where the heat was coming from.

It doesn't mean there was a conspracy other than from Al-Queda and OBL.

you can not rule out explosives because you imagine it to be difficult
to place them

This is the only way they can continue the illusion and fantasy that they are trying to claim is so valid even in the face of 11 years of contradictory findings by so many credible people...Then they try to spin it as NOT credible or valid because a criminal government
does all it can to continue to lie and suppress everything!!
We can rest our case on whether or not it's "crazy" to question the government's official account of 9-11, because of much historical precedent, that shows one is crazy NOT to question anything we are told
Corrupt elements within our government have proven they are capable of carrying out, facilitating or covering up crimes of equal or greater criminal depravity this is indisputable.

 

[daws101]

blah, blah, blah...

Two things.

First.

There were no temperatures found that were high enough to melt steel. That is a fact and PROVES that what people perceived as molten steel was not molten steel at all. You even refused to acknowledge the eutectic findings.

Second and most important.

You and your idiot brethren have been at the same tired bullshit for 11 years now and you haven't accomplished a fucking thing. Except maybe funding Richard Gage's vacations and salary.... errr... "truth conventions".

How does that feel freak? You and your conspiracy theories get slapped around at every turn. You can't even get more than 1% of the total engineering population to support you. After 11 years!!!! How does it feel to be a failure after 11 years?

Ah well. You continue to have fun with that. I'm adding you to ignore as you have only idiocy left to blather on about.

Good luck with your future in futility...

"It takes all kinds" my dad used to say. Most of us are relatively normal peeps but certainly not all. Some seem to enjoy getting spanked. I don't understand them but clearly some of these CTs are in it for the abuse they get.

it's called the god complex .it's root cause is not getting laid.

 

[daws101]

Woo. Princess Jones gets mighty brave once Gamer turns his back. Typical CT jackass.

SAYIT,

I was just thinking about something. Thermite produces aluminum oxide and elemental iron. If there was supposedly enough thermite burning in the debris pile to keep the steel heated to melting for weeks, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide?

There would have had to have been shitloads produced based on the amount of thermite needed to maintain temperatures at 2800 F for weeks.

All anyone supposedly saw was molten steel.

The whole idea that the building was rigged with thermite is preposterous in the extreme. How did a demolition team rig both towers to drop without anyone seeing it? Not the regular workers, not the building security, not the cleaning crew, no one.

Clearly a ridiculous idea.

because they were in on it!
or an alien race race put everyone in to stasis and rigged the buildings.
the twoofers say it was a demo, then why the planes? dramatic effect?
it would have worked just as well with out them ,if it were an actual demo.

 

[Mr. Jones]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

Well it apparently was found in liquid form in the wreckage of 3 buildings, one of which was NOT hit by a plane, explain that....Also while you're at it, you might want to try to link us where you get your preposterous, unprovable assumptions from...while you figure out how to prove to everyone how it is that you can assume that once steel is effected by fire and heated to its 'weakening" point, it will remain this way, even after the fires move on to other parts of a building???
You conveniently leave out the facts that steel regains strength when it cools, and the fires in all 3 buildings were transient and did not remain localized..Nor is there proof that any of them did attain the level needed to fail steel, let alone produce the temps needed to actually find it melted and "running like rivers" underneath ALL 3 buildings....You idiots can't explain away the glaring contradictions, and huge holes in your OCT, so you choose instead to act oblivious to them LOL...

You people are such utter failures when your BS assumptions are taken to task it's laughable..The American people know they were lied to and many Vets know it too, and what is even more appalling is their supposed own governments willingness to hold those truly responsible accountable for the lies and crimes...

 

[daws101]

SAYIT,

I was just thinking about something. Thermite produces aluminum oxide and elemental iron. If there was supposedly enough thermite burning in the debris pile to keep the steel heated to melting for weeks, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide?

There would have had to have been shitloads produced based on the amount of thermite needed to maintain temperatures at 2800 F for weeks.

All anyone supposedly saw was molten steel.

The whole idea that the building was rigged with thermite is preposterous in the extreme. How did a demolition team rig both towers to drop without anyone seeing it? Not the regular workers, not the building security, not the cleaning crew, no one.

Clearly a ridiculous idea.

It goes further than that. The idiots here want to claim thermite fueled the fires within the debris pile to create molten steel found weeks (or longer) after the actual collapse.

They claim that people can tell the difference between molten steel, molten aluminum, or other molten substances.

So if nobody saw anything but molten steel in the debris pile, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide? There had to have been a lot a thermite in the pile to keep the temperatures at 2800 F and produce molten steel for weeks. What about elemental iron? None of these "experts in visual identification of molten substances" reported that either, yet it is also a byproduct of a thermite reaction.

[ame=http://youtu.be/s4XXZ9G3gik]Thermite at Ground Zero? - YouTube[/ame]


Here's a Debunking911 Fun Fact!


How much mass would be required to produce molten iron from thermite equal to the same volume of molten aluminum droplets shown flowing from the south tower window:


A mole of Fe weighs 54 g. For every mole of Fe produced by thermite, one mole of Al and 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 is needed.

2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe


One mole of Al weighs 27 g. 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 80 g.

Therefore, (27 + 80) g = 107 g of Al and Fe2O3 is needed to produce 54 g of Fe.

That means the mass of the reactants to that of Fe produced is a ratio of 107/54 = 2. The mass of thermite reactants (Al, Fe2O3) is twice that of the molten iron produced.

Comparing the weight of molten aluminum droplets compared with iron:

Iron is 7.9 g/cc. Aluminum is 2.64 g/cc. Fe is denser than Al by a factor of 3. For the same volume of droplets, Fe would have three times the mass as Al.

To produce the iron from thermite requires a reactant mass that is a factor of 2 more than the iron produced. Also, Fe is 3 times as dense as Al. So, it would take 2*3 = 6 times as much mass to produce the same volume of molten iron droplets from thermite compared with molten aluminum droplets.


Example:

Assume 3000 lbs of aluminum fell from the towers. If it had been molten iron produced by thermite, then 6*3000 = 18,000 lbs of thermite reactants would have been required to produce that same volume of falling mass.

Suppose 10 tons of molten aluminum fell from the south tower, about 1/8th of that available from the airplane. If it had been molten iron produced from thermite, 60 tons of thermite reactants would have to have been stored in Fuji Bank to produce the same volume spilling out of the south tower. The section of floor would have to hold all of that plus the aircraft.

*Amount of aluminum can be ascertained by counting the droplets and measuring their size compared to the known size of the window. It's not easy to get a good number on this. It's based on the number of slugs seen in video stills, their size relative to the window width which was about 22 inches, and the density of aluminum, assuming this was aluminum.

Density of metals

The weight of a gallon of aluminum is about 22.5 pounds. A hundred of these would already be 2250 lbs. A gallon size is not unlike the size of the slugs that were pouring out the window. Look at them relative to the window size. They look small at first, but when you realize how big the towers were, the slugs were fairly large. It must have been in the thousands of pounds.

Some of the video stills show what look like 50 to 100 slugs in just one frame.




The thermite wouldn't have only needed to make a clean cut like the photo above, it would have also needed to cut sideways. Not an easy feat for thermite. You see, it's a powder which burns chaotically. Maybe with some device but no working device has been proven to me to work to cut a vertical column. You can direct it with a canister but that method wouldn't work to cut a column. The canister only makes a small hole. Nano-thermite has been talked about but its uses fall far short of cutting these massive columns. It's in its research stage. They include possible uses for welding molecular devices and possible use as a heat signature flare decoy. Then there is a patent of a device which has been brought up but as of yet, there is no evidence the idea went any further. Does it even work? Even if it did, they are "Ganged" together to make the cut. You would still need these boxes all over the columns. Once again the answer to this from the "scholars" is "rationalized technology". They need this technology to exist so it exists. There is some secret super thermite which can be placed in a canister which can survive 1,100 degree C so the primary charge doesn't go off. "Gee debunking, you're so dumb."
Thermite and Sulfer- Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition

 

[Mr. Jones]

Controlled demolition can be completely ruled out with rational thinking. The buildings could not have been rigged to blow prior to the event. There are too many problems, insurmountable problems with that theory.

So whatever we have left has to be the truth. What kept the heat for 100 days? The fuel perhaps, the burning debris perhaps, the 1800 degree steel maybe, probably a combination of all of those plus the sheer amount of rubble preventing the pyrocool from reaching into where the heat was coming from.

It doesn't mean there was a conspracy other than from Al-Queda and OBL.

you can not rule out explosives because you imagine it to be difficult
to place them

Not difficult, nearly impossible.

Why because a group of liars told you it's impossible or because you purposefully fail to educate yourself on the many aspects that show who was in positions of authority to command and facilitate this false flag attack on America?
You can not rule anything out simply because you are too stupid to learn about the nation and its history out and who has infiltrated key positions within it....God...you're pathetically ignorant!!!

 

[Mr. Jones]

The whole idea that the building was rigged with thermite is preposterous in the extreme. How did a demolition team rig both towers to drop without anyone seeing it? Not the regular workers, not the building security, not the cleaning crew, no one.

Clearly a ridiculous idea.

It goes further than that. The idiots here want to claim thermite fueled the fires within the debris pile to create molten steel found weeks (or longer) after the actual collapse.

They claim that people can tell the difference between molten steel, molten aluminum, or other molten substances.

So if nobody saw anything but molten steel in the debris pile, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide? There had to have been a lot a thermite in the pile to keep the temperatures at 2800 F and produce molten steel for weeks. What about elemental iron? None of these "experts in visual identification of molten substances" reported that either, yet it is also a byproduct of a thermite reaction.

[ame=http://youtu.be/s4XXZ9G3gik]Thermite at Ground Zero? - YouTube[/ame]


Here's a Debunking911 Fun Fact!


How much mass would be required to produce molten iron from thermite equal to the same volume of molten aluminum droplets shown flowing from the south tower window:


A mole of Fe weighs 54 g. For every mole of Fe produced by thermite, one mole of Al and 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 is needed.

2Al + Fe2O3 = Al2O3 + 2Fe


One mole of Al weighs 27 g. 0.5 mole of Fe2O3 weighs 80 g.

Therefore, (27 + 80) g = 107 g of Al and Fe2O3 is needed to produce 54 g of Fe.

That means the mass of the reactants to that of Fe produced is a ratio of 107/54 = 2. The mass of thermite reactants (Al, Fe2O3) is twice that of the molten iron produced.

Comparing the weight of molten aluminum droplets compared with iron:

Iron is 7.9 g/cc. Aluminum is 2.64 g/cc. Fe is denser than Al by a factor of 3. For the same volume of droplets, Fe would have three times the mass as Al.

To produce the iron from thermite requires a reactant mass that is a factor of 2 more than the iron produced. Also, Fe is 3 times as dense as Al. So, it would take 2*3 = 6 times as much mass to produce the same volume of molten iron droplets from thermite compared with molten aluminum droplets.


Example:

Assume 3000 lbs of aluminum fell from the towers. If it had been molten iron produced by thermite, then 6*3000 = 18,000 lbs of thermite reactants would have been required to produce that same volume of falling mass.

Suppose 10 tons of molten aluminum fell from the south tower, about 1/8th of that available from the airplane. If it had been molten iron produced from thermite, 60 tons of thermite reactants would have to have been stored in Fuji Bank to produce the same volume spilling out of the south tower. The section of floor would have to hold all of that plus the aircraft.

*Amount of aluminum can be ascertained by counting the droplets and measuring their size compared to the known size of the window. It's not easy to get a good number on this. It's based on the number of slugs seen in video stills, their size relative to the window width which was about 22 inches, and the density of aluminum, assuming this was aluminum.

Density of metals

The weight of a gallon of aluminum is about 22.5 pounds. A hundred of these would already be 2250 lbs. A gallon size is not unlike the size of the slugs that were pouring out the window. Look at them relative to the window size. They look small at first, but when you realize how big the towers were, the slugs were fairly large. It must have been in the thousands of pounds.

Some of the video stills show what look like 50 to 100 slugs in just one frame.




The thermite wouldn't have only needed to make a clean cut like the photo above, it would have also needed to cut sideways. Not an easy feat for thermite. You see, it's a powder which burns chaotically. Maybe with some device but no working device has been proven to me to work to cut a vertical column. You can direct it with a canister but that method wouldn't work to cut a column. The canister only makes a small hole. Nano-thermite has been talked about but its uses fall far short of cutting these massive columns. It's in its research stage. They include possible uses for welding molecular devices and possible use as a heat signature flare decoy. Then there is a patent of a device which has been brought up but as of yet, there is no evidence the idea went any further. Does it even work? Even if it did, they are "Ganged" together to make the cut. You would still need these boxes all over the columns. Once again the answer to this from the "scholars" is "rationalized technology". They need this technology to exist so it exists. There is some secret super thermite which can be placed in a canister which can survive 1,100 degree C so the primary charge doesn't go off. "Gee debunking, you're so dumb."
Thermite and Sulfer- Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories and Controlled Demolition

Nothing but a prime example of what has been already debunked as utter BS, coming from someone who doesn't know the first thing about any of this topic, or cares to teach himself...Face it you fucking idiot...you are a miserable failure who can't even distinguish real facts from your strawman sites...

 

[PredFan]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

but there is mo evidence of these temperatures exsisting in the steel tested

In the steel tested. Changes nothing.

 

[daws101]

The whole idea that the building was rigged with thermite is preposterous in the extreme. How did a demolition team rig both towers to drop without anyone seeing it? Not the regular workers, not the building security, not the cleaning crew, no one.

Clearly a ridiculous idea.

It goes further than that. The idiots here want to claim thermite fueled the fires within the debris pile to create molten steel found weeks (or longer) after the actual collapse.

They claim that people can tell the difference between molten steel, molten aluminum, or other molten substances.

So if nobody saw anything but molten steel in the debris pile, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide? There had to have been a lot a thermite in the pile to keep the temperatures at 2800 F and produce molten steel for weeks. What about elemental iron? None of these "experts in visual identification of molten substances" reported that either, yet it is also a byproduct of a thermite reaction.

I remember that someone once posted a picture here os a beam that was "melted", when actually it was obviously cut by a cutting torch. Probably any molton steel found in the debris was there because of the torches used to remove the steel/rescue survivors/increase safety.

you mean these?

 

[daws101]

It might be true that the temperatures that the fires achieved was 1000 degrees less than what is needed to melt steel, but the steel did not need to be liquid to fail. With the amount of weight on the columns, heating them to 1800 degrees is enough to cause them to warp and fail.

but there is mo evidence of these temperatures exsisting in the steel tested

link!

 

[Mr. Jones]

It goes further than that. The idiots here want to claim thermite fueled the fires within the debris pile to create molten steel found weeks (or longer) after the actual collapse.

They claim that people can tell the difference between molten steel, molten aluminum, or other molten substances.

So if nobody saw anything but molten steel in the debris pile, why didn't anyone see molten aluminum oxide? There had to have been a lot a thermite in the pile to keep the temperatures at 2800 F and produce molten steel for weeks. What about elemental iron? None of these "experts in visual identification of molten substances" reported that either, yet it is also a byproduct of a thermite reaction.

I remember that someone once posted a picture here os a beam that was "melted", when actually it was obviously cut by a cutting torch. Probably any molton steel found in the debris was there because of the torches used to remove the steel/rescue survivors/increase safety.

you mean these?

I don't see the tons of aluminum or car parts that you idiots kept yammering on about...