The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[gipper]

LOL. They were stopped entirely by 1945. They had nothing left by summer, but you find mass murdering defenseless Japanese civilians entirely justified.

Sadly, you find murdering everyone at Pearl Harbor more justified for some bizarre reason.

What? Now that’s fucked up.

First you will find no one more anti war than me. War is a racket and always about the health of the State. War is never necessary and is almost always a set up.

Secondly, you believe the Japanese murdered everyone at Pearl Harbor. Really? Apparently you haven’t looked at the casualty counts.

Here’s an exercise for you, if you are competent. Please compare the casualties at Pearl with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can you do that?

 

[gipper]

You are not to be taken seriously.

Says the immature asshat trolling from his mom's basement.
, the only tragedy with Japan is that we didn't drop a third nuclear bomb on their evil ass. They came looking for a fight and they found it. They deserved a LOT worse than they got.

Now stop your immature nonsense and move along so the adults can have a conversation.

Your jingoistic ignorance is matched only by your rudeness. You are no "patriot." Your heroes FDR and Truman handed over hundreds of millions of people to Communism, preserved one of the most murderous regimes in modern history, and enabled another historically murderous regime to come to power.

Determined to preserve and aid the Soviet Union, FDR picked a fight with our long-time anti-Communist ally Japan, refused all of Japan's peace offers, and saved the Soviet Union. Then, his lackluster VP took Stalin's advice and refused to modify the surrender terms because he was determined to drop at least two nukes, and then he proceeded to hand over China to the Maoist Communists and thereby sentenced at least 30 million Chinese to death.

If that's your version of "patriotism," Eisenhower and a whole bunch of other senior military officers weren't patriotic.

So much truth in that post, that it must blow the mind of the uninformed statist American.

 

[gipper]

Pearl Harbor wasn’t necessary either.

This is a disingenuous argument and an erroneous comparison. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base done in response to FDR's provocations, both military and economic. I won't go through the list of FDR's provocations, not to mention his rejection of all of Japan's peace offers. To compare an attack on a military base that killed about 3,000 military personnel to Truman's nuke attacks on two cities that killed over 200,000 civilians, especially when he knew Japan was already beaten and trying to surrender, is absurd.

That was a 550 ft home run.

Perhaps if you're in grade school it might seem like a "home run." Actually, it's a silly and simplistic argument, not to mention an erroneous comparison that ignores most of the relevant facts.

Just the Japanese casualties saved because of the Bombs far outweigh Nagasaki. We would have had to attack Japan all over their country tearing it to pieces.

So, I take it you haven't read the thread. The nukes did not cause Japan's surrender; the Soviet invasion caused the surrender. We did not need to nuke Japan. Japan was already beaten and prostrate and was trying to surrender.

More importantly is the AMERICAN LIVES saved from slaughter.

The A-bomb did not save one American life because it did not cause Japan to surrender, as numerous scholars have documented. Again, I take it you have not bothered to read the thread. There was no need to invade, and no need for nukes. Most of Japan's leaders were ready to surrender--Truman simply needed to advise the Japanese that the emperor would not be deposed, but, taking Stalin's advice, he refused to do so, even though he knew this was the only obstacle to surrender. Truman could have achieved a surrender without nukes and without an invasion, but he was determined to use nukes.

How old are you? I got a lot of my info from my father, who was actually there for yrs.He knew a lot. I read history books, real books.

There seems to be a heck of a lot of arm chair quarterbacks and Monday Morning 20/20 rear hindsighters on this thread.

So this thread is not for me. Thanks for your responses.

Get informed. Read this and tell me what you think of it.

Harry Truman and the Atomic Bomb | Ralph Raico

 

[gipper]

And the Jap attack on Manila, Guam, China, Bali....what was that?

Sigh. . . . Just sigh. . . . Gosh, really? After all the facts presented in this thread about what FDR was doing to the Japanese to choke their economy and provoke them to fight, this is your response? And "China"?! You must be kidding. Go back and read this thread.

And, of course, you still ignore the clear evidence that FDR *wanted* Japan to attack. We know this from Stimson's diary and from the McCollum Memo, among other sources.

It’s as if their brain shut down after third grade. They just can’t allow for additional learning. Particularly so in Candycane’s case.

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

Listen snowflake...stop trolling USMB. Only a fuck'n idiot would think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not justified. I'm not buying your shit. You're just looking to get a rise out of people because you're bored.

Grow up and find a hobby. Seriously.

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war???

Were we supposed to get permission first??

This thread is total nonsense.

 

[candycorn]

Reminds me of the oft repeated saying....don’t start none and there won’t be none.

There is just no getting you to engage in a reasoned, fact-based discussion on this issue, is there? And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

The guy who throws the first punch

There you go again acting like all Japanese were guilty of the actions of the bad actors in the army. Pray tell: What barbaric actions did the women and children in Hiroshima and Nagasaki commit? What barbaric actions did the seniors, women, and children in the 65 cities that we fire-bombed and/or naval-bombarded commit?

What percentage of Japanese soldiers do you believe committed war crimes, and what percentage of Japan's population do you believe those soldiers constituted?

don’t know, don’t care. Our actions were justified

 

[gipper]

And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

Listen snowflake...stop trolling USMB. Only a fuck'n idiot would think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not justified. I'm not buying your shit. You're just looking to get a rise out of people because you're bored.

Grow up and find a hobby. Seriously.

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war???

Were we supposed to get permission first??

This thread is total nonsense.

LMFAO.

You think mass murdering defenseless civilians is entirely just and right, because it’s war. WTF! So, the mass murdering by the Nazis and Japanese is okay, because it’s war. Apparently the Nuremberg Trials were unnecessary, because it’s war.

I find that kind of thinking disgusting and ignorant...AND ENTIRELY UN-AMERICAN.

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

Listen snowflake...stop trolling USMB. Only a fuck'n idiot would think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not justified. I'm not buying your shit. You're just looking to get a rise out of people because you're bored.

Grow up and find a hobby. Seriously.

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war???

Were we supposed to get permission first??

This thread is total nonsense.

LMFAO.

You think mass murdering defenseless civilians is entirely just and right, because it’s war. WTF! So, the mass murdering by the Nazis and Japanese is okay, because it’s war. Apparently the Nuremberg Trials were unnecessary, because it’s war.
obably
I find that kind of thinking disgusting and ignorant...AND ENTIRELY UN-AMERICAN.

Look pal. What I find really disgusting and UNAMERICAN. is you would sacrafice another 100k American soldiers slaughtered for this thread. I find that totally disturbing from you, so disturbing I'll never read you again.......Calls me UNAMERICAN while more soldiers would have died. Jesus Christ this thread sucks donkey DICK....So historically bankrupt.

 

[P@triot]

Your heroes FDR...

I hate FDR and the entire board knows it. I consider him one of the three worst presidents ever (along with Woodrow Wilson and MaObama).

You should do your homework before commenting.

 

[P@triot]

FDR picked a fight with our long-time anti-Communist ally Japan

They weren’t “anti-communist”. They were anti-China. And that’s because they were pro-Nazi.

 

[P@triot]

LOL. They were stopped entirely by 1945. They had nothing left by summer, but you find mass murdering defenseless Japanese civilians entirely justified.

Sadly, you find murdering everyone at Pearl Harbor more justified for some bizarre reason.

What? Now that’s fucked up.

It is. But that is literally your position. You’re on record stating as much. Sick.

 

[P@triot]

War is never necessary...

God, small children are so adorable. I love their innocence.

Adolf Hitler invaded over 20 nations (including, but not limited to, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Greece, Yugoslavia, Austria) and you official position is that all of them should have surrendered and become serfs. Because nobody should fight back. War is “never” necessary.

 

[gipper]

And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

Listen snowflake...stop trolling USMB. Only a fuck'n idiot would think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not justified. I'm not buying your shit. You're just looking to get a rise out of people because you're bored.

Grow up and find a hobby. Seriously.

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war???

Were we supposed to get permission first??

This thread is total nonsense.

LMFAO.

You think mass murdering defenseless civilians is entirely just and right, because it’s war. WTF! So, the mass murdering by the Nazis and Japanese is okay, because it’s war. Apparently the Nuremberg Trials were unnecessary, because it’s war.
obably
I find that kind of thinking disgusting and ignorant...AND ENTIRELY UN-AMERICAN.

Look pal. What I find really disgusting and UNAMERICAN. is you would sacrafice another 100k American soldiers slaughtered for this thread. I find that totally disturbing from you, so disturbing I'll never read you again.......Calls me UNAMERICAN while more soldiers would have died. Jesus Christ this thread sucks donkey DICK....So historically bankrupt.

Your post is completely ignorant. Get informed before posting dupe.

 

[mikegriffith1]

I got a lot of my info from my father, who was actually there for yrs. He knew a lot.

Your father had no information on Truman's decision to nuke two Japanese cities, nor did any other soldier or sailor serving in the Pacific, and your father had nothing to do with the decision. If Truman had done what he knew he needed to do to end the war in July, the overwhelming majority of GIs would not have cared one hoot that the emperor was not deposed.

There seems to be a heck of a lot of arm chair quarterbacks and Monday Morning 20/20 rear hindsighters on this thread.

Oh, no, no, that dog won't hunt. Truman KNEW that Japanese officials were sending out peace feelers in May, three months before Hiroshima. By early July, Truman KNEW that even the emperor wanted to surrender and that the only real obstacle was the fear that the emperor would be deposed. Acting Secretary of State Joseph Grew, one of the few genuine Japan experts in the government, gave Truman two extensive briefings in May and explained the emperor's status and limited power and why the Japanese would never surrender if they thought the emperor would be deposed. And Truman KNEW that Japan was already severely beaten and prostrate.

Truman lied to his own chief of staff and assured him that the nukes would only be used on military targets. He lied to the American people and told them the egregious falsehood that Hiroshima was "a military base" and that this "military base" was chosen as the first target to minimize civilian casualties. Truman was either being played as an absolute fool by the Japan haters in the War Department and the State Department, such as Byrnes and Acheson, or he was lying through his teeth.

And after Truman had nuked two Japanese cities and allowed the Soviets to enter the war, he proceeded to hand over China, northern Korea, and northern Vietnam to the Communists. In China, the Communists proceeded to kill over 30 million Chinese. We had to fight a bloody war just to prevent southern Korea from going Communist, and then we had to fight another war to try to keep southern Vietnam from going Communist, but Truman's fellow Democrats stabbed South Vietnam in the back and refused to provide the air and logistical support we had promised by treaty to give them.

 

[P@triot]

Here’s an exercise for you, if you are competent. Please compare the casualties at Pearl with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can you do that?

1. War is “never” necessary so why compare?

2. The goal is not to “even” the body count. Only someone of extraordinary ignorance would think like that. The goal is deterrence. The response should be so ghastly and catastrophic that not only would the nation targeted never dare consider attacking you again, but no nation would dare consider it. And that’s what the nuclear weapons did. They saved millions of American lives. Because nobody thought about striking the U.S. again until 50 years later by people who weren’t even alive when we dropped the bombs.

This is why immature idealists like you are never placed in national security positions. You keep crying on the internet, k? We’ll leave national security to the professionals.

 

[P@triot]

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war??? Were we supposed to get permission first?? This thread is total nonsense.

Well Mike is just trolling (which is why he started an idiotic thread about something that happened 80 years ago) and Gipper is an immature idealist.

 

[gipper]

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war??? Were we supposed to get permission first?? This thread is total nonsense.

Well Mike is just trolling (which is why he started an idiotic thread about something that happened 80 years ago) and Gipper is an immature idealist.

The truth is trolling. Trolling is truth. Orwell’s 1984 lives.

Whatever are we going to do with statists?

 

[gipper]

Here’s an exercise for you, if you are competent. Please compare the casualties at Pearl with those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can you do that?

1. War is “never” necessary so why compare?

2. The goal is not to “even” the body count. Only someone of extraordinary ignorance would think like that. The goal is deterrence. The response should be so ghastly and catastrophic that not only would the nation targeted never dare consider attacking you again, but no nation would dare consider it. And that’s what the nuclear weapons did. They saved millions of American lives. Because nobody thought about striking the U.S. again until 50 years later by people who weren’t even alive when we dropped the bombs.

This is why immature idealists like you are never placed in national security positions. You keep crying on the internet, k? We’ll leave national security to the professionals.

Think. Please just try to think.

 

[gipper]

I got a lot of my info from my father, who was actually there for yrs. He knew a lot.

Your father had no information on Truman's decision to nuke two Japanese cities, nor did any other soldier or sailor serving in the Pacific, and your father had nothing to do with the decision. If Truman had done what he knew he needed to do to end the war in July, the overwhelming majority of GIs would not have cared one hoot that the emperor was not deposed.

There seems to be a heck of a lot of arm chair quarterbacks and Monday Morning 20/20 rear hindsighters on this thread.

Oh, no, no, that dog won't hunt. Truman KNEW that Japanese officials were sending out peace feelers in May, three months before Hiroshima. By early July, Truman KNEW that even the emperor wanted to surrender and that the only real obstacle was the fear that the emperor would be deposed. Acting Secretary of State Joseph Grew, one of the few genuine Japan experts in the government, gave Truman two extensive briefings in May and explained the emperor's status and limited power and why the Japanese would never surrender if they thought the emperor would be deposed. And Truman KNEW that Japan was already severely beaten and prostrate.

Truman lied to his own chief of staff and assured him that the nukes would only be used on military targets. He lied to the American people and told them the egregious falsehood that Hiroshima was "a military base" and that this "military base" was chosen as the first target to minimize civilian casualties. Truman was either being played as an absolute fool by the Japan haters in the War Department and the State Department, such as Byrnes and Acheson, or he was lying through his teeth.

And after Truman had nuked two Japanese cities and allowed the Soviets to enter the war, he proceeded to hand over China, northern Korea, and northern Vietnam to the Communists. In China, the Communists proceeded to kill over 30 million Chinese. We had to fight a bloody war just to prevent southern Korea from going Communist, and then we had to fight another war to try to keep southern Vietnam from going Communist, but Truman's fellow Democrats stabbed South Vietnam in the back and refused to provide the air and logistical support we had promised by treaty to give them.

The patience you have shown for these warmongering statist dummies is very admirable.

 

[Unkotare]

And who starts a fight: the one who keeps trying to provoke the fight and wants to fight, or the one who tries to avoid the fight but finally responds to the provocations and throws the first punch because he realizes that the other person is determined to hurt him?

Listen snowflake...stop trolling USMB. Only a fuck'n idiot would think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not justified. I'm not buying your shit. You're just looking to get a rise out of people because you're bored.

Grow up and find a hobby. Seriously.

Do some people here realize that we were in a F war???

Were we supposed to get permission first??

This thread is total nonsense.

LMFAO.

You think mass murdering defenseless civilians is entirely just and right, because it’s war. WTF! So, the mass murdering by the Nazis and Japanese is okay, because it’s war. Apparently the Nuremberg Trials were unnecessary, because it’s war.
obably
I find that kind of thinking disgusting and ignorant...AND ENTIRELY UN-AMERICAN.

Look pal. What I find really disgusting and UNAMERICAN. is you would sacrafice another 100k American soldiers slaughtered for this thread. I find that totally disturbing from you, so disturbing I'll never read you again.......Calls me UNAMERICAN while more soldiers would have died. Jesus Christ this thread sucks donkey DICK....So historically bankrupt.

Try reading the thread.