The object is a weakened, dumbed-down and intellectually dishonest public

[Stryder50]

One has already been obviously stolen.

Started about 2004 when here in Washington State the Democrats fine-tuned the art of "finding" boxes of ballots that got over-looked when doing the first count.

Like most Leftist, so poor at math that had to cheat twice to get the needed numbers to "win".

Set the pattern to repeat in future, in other states and nationally.

2004 Washington gubernatorial election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Magnus]

One has already been obviously stolen.

Actually, sparky. Make that two. November is in the bag.

For a small fee, I can provide you with the results. PM me.

 

[Stryder50]

I have a firm grip on reality because I was in the game. You watched on ESPN.

You have a limited and localized delusion of "the game".

 

[Stryder50]

Nope, I have a nice home, a vacation property (which I inherited from my parents), own my own business and help my wife run hers.

I make far more under Biden than I made under Trump.

Which makes you one of those profit chasing capitalist you claim to deplore.
Guess concepts of irony and hypocrisy are also part of your ignorance portfolio.

 

[Lastamender]

Actually, sparky. Make that two. November is in the bag.

For a small fee, I can provide you with the results. PM me.

Gloating assholes like you are in for a big surprise.

 

[Stryder50]

You mean we let the UK and USSR bankrupt themselves buying our overpriced military supplies before the Axis decided to attack us. That's nothing to be proud of, really. If we had decency, we'd have gotten into the war in 1939, not wait until we got attacked.

Point was, the vast majority of the fighting was done by Russians, Chinese and Indians conscripted into the British Army.



Again, providing materials isn't fighting, guy. We didn't do much of the fighting, that was the point. Heck, we didn't even open a second front in Europe until 1944. In the Pacific, we fought over some crappy Islands while the Chinese and Indians were doing most of the land fighting.




Or we just took advantage of the situation and in many ways, created a bad situation after the war. Then we all shit our pants when the Mao took over China and Stalin took half of Europe.

PART ONE:

You continue to display yourself as a prime example of a product of the topic/theme of this thread and it's title.
You are ignorant of basics of economics, technology, and history of the 1930s onward.
You have no grasp of Tactics nor Strategy.
You are clueless about Logistics.
You appear to have flunked Geography.

Hence the origins of inaccurate and vague generalizations which are talking points of the propaganda, indoctrination, and programing from the Marxist-Communist training you absorbed, without questioning, during your formative and "education" years.

I don't expect you to become informed or change your views and mind, but for benefit of those who do have open minds, the following counter-points;

Quote:
"You mean we let the UK and USSR bankrupt themselves buying our overpriced military supplies before the Axis decided to attack us."
1) Our "military supplies" were never overpriced and often went for cost or less. The USSR never bought or paid for anything the USA provided in Lend-Lease, during or after the War. UK (and France) was on a "cash-n-carry" basis because the majority of USA citizens compelled FDR to operate on such a basis initially. UK becoming "bankrupt" was a result of many other nations actions in addition to the USA. FDR encountered intense resistance in Congress and among the American public* initially because of his Lend-Lease solution.
* The looney Left-wing in the USA were the biggest critics and opponents of the USA getting embroiled in "another European war".

2) The Nazis were already shooting at US warships months before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor

"The attack on the Kearny and the sinking of the Reuben James solidified Roosevelt's support of the Allies."

The Nazis were already shooting at US warships months before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor

The US officially declared war on the Nazis on December 11, 1941, but the US Navy had already been fighting them in the Atlantic for months.

www.businessinsider.com

Note that nearly 200 US sailors were killed in the attacks.

How Was the US Involved in WWII Before Pearl Harbor?​

​

 

[Magnus]

Gloating assholes like you are in for a big surprise.

Didn't you retards say that in the last election? How did that one go down? Oh yeah, by you idiots having a hissy fit and trying to lynch your own party member!

 

[Stryder50]

You mean we let the UK and USSR bankrupt themselves buying our overpriced military supplies before the Axis decided to attack us. That's nothing to be proud of, really. If we had decency, we'd have gotten into the war in 1939, not wait until we got attacked.

Point was, the vast majority of the fighting was done by Russians, Chinese and Indians conscripted into the British Army.



Again, providing materials isn't fighting, guy. We didn't do much of the fighting, that was the point. Heck, we didn't even open a second front in Europe until 1944. In the Pacific, we fought over some crappy Islands while the Chinese and Indians were doing most of the land fighting.




Or we just took advantage of the situation and in many ways, created a bad situation after the war. Then we all shit our pants when the Mao took over China and Stalin took half of Europe.

PART TWO:
"That's nothing to be proud of, really. If we had decency, we'd have gotten into the war in 1939, not wait until we got attacked."

A reminder that it was your commie-Leftists predecessors back then who lobbied to keep the USA out of the war. Take up the "pride" issue with them. Also, once Russia was attacked by Germany, than they were all in to fight the Nazis.

Note that few had qualms about Italy's wars and conquests in East Africa during the late 1930s, or Japan's restart of the on and off wars with China that also restarted in @1937.

For that matter, until June 22, 1941, the first couple years of what we now call World War Two looked like the two largest militarizes/armies of the world, Germany and Russia/USSR were carving out chunks of Eastern Europe between them and posing a combined threat to Western Civilization.

One major reason, and a logical one, is the following;
" The start of WW2, September 1, 1939, saw the US Army as the 17th largest military manpower in the world morph into the world’s second largest army. The US began WW2 as a Navy titan and ended the war with an Army and Air Force almost on par with the Navy. The men entering the US military branches all went through boot camp, discussed below. "

US Military Manpower 1939 - 1945 | World War II Data

US Military Manpower 1939 - 1945 includes graphically represented info and downloadable formats including excel and PDF.

ww2data.com

Rise of the U.S. Army - Warfare History Network​

A Brief History of the U.S. Army in World War II​

Military history of the United States during World War II​

The facts of the matter are that the USA was in no position of military strength to enter WWII without suffering disastrous losses and setbacks in 1939. Not even by the end of 1941 when forced into the war were we, USA, really of useful strength levels.

As history shows, it took an attack like that at Pearl Harbor to galvanize enough public support for the USA to become a full participant - belligerent in World War Two.

​

 

[JoeB131]

ART ONE:

You continue to display yourself as a prime example of a product of the topic/theme of this thread and it's title.
You are ignorant of basics of economics, technology, and history of the 1930s onward.

I have a bachelor's degree in history from UIC with a focus on European History.

You have no grasp of Tactics nor Strategy.

I was in the Army for 11 years.

You are clueless about Logistics.

Uh, My MOS was 76Y (Supply Specialist and later Supply Sergeant)

So wrong on three points.

A reminder that it was your commie-Leftists predecessors back then who lobbied to keep the USA out of the war. Take up the "pride" issue with them. Also, once Russia was attacked by Germany, than they were all in to fight the Nazis.

The biggest war opponents were the REpublicans and Charles Lindbergh....

So wrong again!

For that matter, until June 22, 1941, the first couple years of what we now call World War Two looked like the two largest militarizes/armies of the world, Germany and Russia/USSR were carving out chunks of Eastern Europe between them and posing a combined threat to Western Civilization.

Except everyone knew Hitler was going to eventually turn on Stalin, which is why the Western Powers didn't declare war on Stalin or even do anything when he invaded Finland.

It was western fecklessness that drove Hitler and Stalin into an alliance. Instead of telling Poland to sensibly negotiate on Danzig and the Polish Corridor, Chamberlain (embarrassed by how Munich went) wrote the Polish Colonels a blank check, and Hitler and Stalin came to an agreement, giving Hitler a free hand to attack the west.

2) The Nazis were already shooting at US warships months before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor

"The attack on the Kearny and the sinking of the Reuben James solidified Roosevelt's support of the Allies."

Those ships never should have been in a war zone.

This is what you guys don't get... a lot of Americans were rightfully opposed to another European War, given what a pointless clusterfuck WWI was. It didn't end all wars, it didn't make the world safe for Democracy. They saw millions of men coming back with injuries or what we call PTSD now. And a lot of people looked at war with Germany and Italy (the two largest immigrant groups in the US at the time) as a terrible idea.

Note that few had qualms about Italy's wars and conquests in East Africa during the late 1930s, or Japan's restart of the on and off wars with China that also restarted in @1937.

well, it's not like it was bad stuff happening to white people, amiright?

the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Stryder50]

You mean we let the UK and USSR bankrupt themselves buying our overpriced military supplies before the Axis decided to attack us. That's nothing to be proud of, really. If we had decency, we'd have gotten into the war in 1939, not wait until we got attacked.

Point was, the vast majority of the fighting was done by Russians, Chinese and Indians conscripted into the British Army.



Again, providing materials isn't fighting, guy. We didn't do much of the fighting, that was the point. Heck, we didn't even open a second front in Europe until 1944. In the Pacific, we fought over some crappy Islands while the Chinese and Indians were doing most of the land fighting.




Or we just took advantage of the situation and in many ways, created a bad situation after the war. Then we all shit our pants when the Mao took over China and Stalin took half of Europe.

PART THREE:
"Point was, the vast majority of the fighting was done by Russians, Chinese and Indians conscripted into the British Army."

Again, your mass ignorance of history on display here:

A) Russia - was fending off an invasion of their homeland by Nazi Germany which for most of the time saw between 80-90% of Germany's Army and Air Forces involved. While Russia and Japan had a few clashes in the late 1930's, once Germany attacked @ June 22, 1941 Russia focused entirely upon fighting the invasion and liberating it's homeland. Russia would not enter the war against Japan until a couple months after Germany's defeat and surrender, and then only seeking easy territorial pickings from the Japanese corpse.

USSR/Russia was only a HALF ALLY in most of World War Two and Stalin was always whining for the Allies = UK and USA to open a "Second Front (against the Germans) failing to understand that both UK and USA would need to build military forces and resources to succeed in such an endevour. Also Stalin failed to appreciate the USA and UK need to deal with the Pacific Theater of Operations - PTO; or that operations in Mediterranean, North Africa, and aerial bombardment* of Germany were part of a Second Front.

Insult to injury, Stalin continued to bitch that the UK and USA weren't giving away enough of Lend-Lease to the USSR.

Also Russia wouldn't allow or co-operate much with UK or USA forces operating within Russia. The Poltava Debacle is a classic case and was a huge insult to the Allies.

The Poltava Debacle | Air & Space Forces Magazine - Air Force Magazi​

Operation Frantic | World War II Database - WW2DB​

Blow Out at Poltava - HistoryNet​

OPERATION FRANTIC: Shuttle Raids to the Soviet Union​

Images:

Army air force poltava raid at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

B) As for the "Chinese", a start point is that Mao and his Communist faction tended to avoid combat with the Japanese as much as possible, saving strength for the post war fight to continue the civil war with the Nationalists.

Meanwhile, Nationalist China had been fighting against Japan for most of the first four decades of 1900s;
...
The Second Sino-Japanese War was fought between the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan between 1937 and 1945, following a period of war localized to Manchuria that started in 1931.[24][25] It is considered part of World War II, and often regarded as the beginning of World War II in Asia. It was the largest Asian war in the 20th century[26] and has been described as "the Asian Holocaust", in reference to the scale of Japanese war crimes against Chinese civilians.[27][28][29] It is known in China as the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression.

On 18 September 1931, the Japanese staged the Mukden incident, a false flag event fabricated to justify their invasion of Manchuria and establishment of the puppet state of Manchukuo. This is sometimes marked as the beginning of the war.[30][31] From 1931 to 1937, China and Japan engaged in skirmishes, including in Shanghai and in Northern China. Chinese Nationalist and Communist forces, respectively led by Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Zedong, had fought each other in Chinese Civil War since 1927 before forming the Second United Front in late 1936 in order to resist the Japanese invasion together.

The full-scale war began on 7 July 1937 with the Marco Polo Bridge incident near Beijing, which prompted a full-scale Japanese invasion of the rest of China. The Japanese captured the capital of Nanjing in 1937 and perpetrated the Nanjing Massacre. After failing to stop the Japanese capture of Wuhan in 1938, then China's de facto capital at the time, the Nationalist government relocated to Chongqing in the Chinese interior. After the Sino-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, Soviet aid bolstered the Republic of China Army and Air Force. By 1939, after Chinese victories at Changsha and Guangxi, and with Japan's lines of communications stretched deep into the interior, the war reached a stalemate. ...
....

Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia​

China and the Chinese focused mostly within their own, invaded nation as far as their part in the war was concerned. Note that by 1941-1942 Japan had seized all the Chinese ports and the Burma Road in SE Asia, hence the only way to get any aid into China was by air, flying over "The Hump" - Himalayas. This was very costly to the USA in terms of lost cargo aircraft and crews and resulted in limited useful resources getting into China. Mostly this was a small air force, originally the American Volunteer Group = "Flying Tigers", later to be known as the 14th USAAF;

Fourteenth Air Force - Wikipedia​

Interesting footnote here is that before the USA became heavily involved in aiding the Nationalist Chinese Air Force, the Italians, then the Germans, and the Russians had also sent aircraft and advisors. As seen in the Spanish Civil War, China vs Japan provided a testing ground as well as a source for foreign trade and influence prior to the start of WWII in Sept. 1939. Result was China had a hodgepodge of European aircraft and weapons.

As for India/Indians - As a part of the UK Empire, those Indians conscripted that weren't used to keep order within India to forestall revolt against the UK were limited to a few brigades used in actual combat against the Japanese, who were trying to invade India. A couple of brigades had fought earlier in North Africa, but after Dec. 1941 they were withdrawn East to face the Japanese.

It needs to be noted that UK forces included Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, and other Commonwealth troops. These nationalities formed the bulk of UK military in the war and were the major forces outside of the CBI = China Burma India Theater of Operations.

Plenty of Anglo and American blood was shed globally during that war in the other combat theaters as well.

Outside of the above mentioned regions, the USA was also a major combatant and many of our forces were involved in the CBI, along with the PTO, MTO, ETO, etc.

 

[JoeB131]

A) Russia - was fending off an invasion of their homeland by Nazi Germany which for most of the time saw between 80-90% of Germany's Army and Air Forces involved. While Russia and Japan had a few clashes in the late 1930's, once Germany attacked @ June 22, 1941 Russia focused entirely upon fighting the invasion and liberating it's homeland. Russia would not enter the war against Japan until a couple months after Germany's defeat and surrender, and then only seeking easy territorial pickings from the Japanese corpse.

Guy, you deny my point by confirming it. The USSR had more men involved in single battles than the other Allies had on the whole Western Front. 2/3rd of Axis forces were committed to the Eastern Front.

As for the USSR's entry into the Pacific War, that was what made the Japanese finally realize the war couldn't be won and they surrendered. I know we like to pretend it was the A-bombs, but, no, Japan just didn't want to get divided like Germany was.

B) As for the "Chinese", a start point is that Mao and his Communist faction tended to avoid combat with the Japanese as much as possible, saving strength for the post war fight to continue the civil war with the Nationalists.

That's not true, either. If anyone was slacking, it was the Nationalists throughout most of 1943. Chiang didn't even get off his ass until 1944, when Japan launched Operation Ichi-Go to try to knock China out of the war. Not surprisingly, after the war, people defected to the Communists in droves.