The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Oldstyle]

Strange that the prosecution never opined on what would have happened if George has just said "Uncle"..,


What do you think...would Trayvon have kept beating on him??

Fights have certain phases, Delt. The first is the lead up phase where talk is taking place.

The second phase is usually someone throwing a sucker punch.

The third phase is what happens after someone is knocked down...does the person who's prevailing in the fight walk away or tell the person on the ground to stay down...or do they continue to inflict damage?

In this fight, Zimmerman is knocked down and Martin straddles him MMA style and continues to strike him. That's a good indication that Martin was NOT inclined to stop if someone yelled "Uncle". It's an indication that Martin was enjoying giving someone else a beating.

Could be...and it's been 50 years since I was in a fight...but as for me when the other guy dropped or quit fighting back...my level of attack quickly diminished...

And if you punched someone in the face and he fell to the ground? I take it you would stop hitting him? Martin, by all accounts, didn't do that...he "went to the ground" as they say in mixed martial arts. He straddled Zimmerman and went for the knock out.

 

[wavingrl]

ot--upsetting --the pony died--went peacefully on his own terms

Fairburn therapy pony attacked by stray dogs, critical | 11alive.com


~~
I managed to keep informed --we are waiting.

One member of the HLN panel thought--maybe tomorrow. fwiw.

a lot seems to be going on locally--still cloudy--intermittent showers--better than the blazing heat.

I visited the West Palm area one August. Never again. by 7AM it was sweltering--raining by noon and back to sweltering.

 

[Foxfyre]

If we have to do this again, ummmm. No.

They won't bring charges again - let them take the fall.

They might if it's 5:1 for conviction, but 4:2 or worse, no way!

IMO I think it will be all on what the Feds want to do. The Feds are the ones that wanted to have this case prosecuted if my memory serves me right.

Yup. One more time, the DOJ was absolutely active in the demonstrations and demand that Zimmeman be arrested and charged. If the federal government had stayed out of it, this thread wouldn't exist and this would be a footnote in the Seminole County history books and the rest of us would likely have never heard of it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Lots of guesses. Lots of scenarios presented. No proof that Martin started the fight. Sorry.

 

[testarosa]

If we have to do this again, ummmm. No.

They won't bring charges again - let them take the fall.

They might if it's 5:1 for conviction, but 4:2 or worse, no way!

IMO I think it will be all on what the Feds want to do. The Feds are the ones that wanted to have this case prosecuted if my memory serves me right.

The Feds closed the investigation, got the heck out of dodge and left the state holding the bag. It'll be a state matter to retry or drop it. The Gov and Angela.

 

[deltex1]

Fights have certain phases, Delt. The first is the lead up phase where talk is taking place.

The second phase is usually someone throwing a sucker punch.

The third phase is what happens after someone is knocked down...does the person who's prevailing in the fight walk away or tell the person on the ground to stay down...or do they continue to inflict damage?

In this fight, Zimmerman is knocked down and Martin straddles him MMA style and continues to strike him. That's a good indication that Martin was NOT inclined to stop if someone yelled "Uncle". It's an indication that Martin was enjoying giving someone else a beating.

What is typical of a thug like Trayvon is for things to skip over the first phase straight to the second. The second is normally them walking up or jumping you and beating you for little reason.

The first phase in this fight was Trayvon asking George "You got a problem?" as he came out of the darkness. For those of you that have no experience with street fights? Them's fighting words! It's what you say when you're about to GIVE someone a problem!

I usually kicked the guy in the nuts before I answered his question,

 

[SantaFeWay]

What in the world could be taking the jury this long? What issue is unclear?

I think Guy summed up the State's position in closing: George Zimmerman did not kill Trayvon Martin because he had to, he killed him because he wanted to.

I don't see any possible evidence to support that. So what is the jury unclear about? Very simply, the evidence shows TM was the aggressor; he punched GZ in the face and knocked him to the ground where they scuffled; GZ's head was struck on the sidewalk and placed him in fear for his life or greater bodily harm; and GZ discharged his weapon to defend himself.

Everything else is meaningless, IMO. It doesn't matter if GZ was out of his truck and/or following TM. That's not illegal and it is not aggressive. It doesn't matter if the dispatcher told him to stop following and he didn't run back and lock himself in his truck. That wasn't an order, it sounded like a recommendation to me. Stupid words uttered by GM and TM don't matter. So what. But, for the record, GZ's words were not racist and TM's were. But still doesn't matter.

All that matters is that TM was the aggressor and the one inflicting harm, causing the victim GZ to protect himself. So what is taking the jury this long to reach a verdict? If the question is whether GZ's actions were reasonable, I would say yes considering TM was taller, more muscular, and obviously angrier than GZ and therefore more capable of causing the greater physical damage.

Lord, I hope they get this right.

 

[wavingrl]

If we have to do this again, ummmm. No.

They won't bring charges again - let them take the fall.

They said the Prosecution team is from Jacksonville--would have preferred to use local prosecutors but weren't allowed. fyi.

The former police chief must be glad to be out of the fray--if he is able to feed his family or find employment. So many 'victims'.

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

I don't know about that as I have found conservatives in general are good at concrete, abstract, objective, and subjective thinking; however it is well known that many conservatives are also Christians so maybe Sunday school does have a bearing on it. However, I know many Christians who are passionate liberals and, though they grew up in Sunday School, still don't do well with abstract analysis and won't consider anything concrete or objective apart from how they feel about it including what is and is not politiically correct.

Example: We aren't supposed to consider any downside or long term ramifications to illegal immigration but a true Christian attitude is to understand that the people coming across the border are simply wanting a better life for themselves and their families and they are God's children too and we should accept and love them and make room for them. Discussion of the downside for the illegals is not acceptable and must be shouted down, yadda yadda.

I know many conservatives, however, who are agnostic or Atheist and didn't grow up in Bible class who are able to avoid the fuzzy feeling syndrone and see the whole big picture. For that reason I don't know if we can give Bible stories the credit. (But then I think I can reason abstract principles, lol.)

Anyhow, extrapolating that to this incredible Zimmerman trial, we should have known what was coming when the initial leftist media reports defined Zimmerman as a "white Hispanic." Have you EVER seen such a designation used on anybody before? Ever? That told you from the get go that he would be branded guilty and Trayvon Martin as the innocent victim of racism. There didn't have to be a shred of proof about that. In the liberal world that is the scenario that 'feels' right and therefore it must be made true.

Surveys today taken by the government ask what race you are. The choices are: White non Hispanic, White Hispanic, African American, Hispanic, Asian, Other.

I don't think "white Hispanic" is a designation. There is white, not of Hispanic origin, and Hispanic, but no 'white Hispanic'. That I believe was a pure media invention in the opening arguments of trial in the court of public opinion. And it was 100% deliberate to paint Zimmerman as the bad guy from Day One.

From Whitehouse.gov

ISSUE 3. Should "race/ethnicity" be asked as a single identification or should "race" identification be separate from Hispanic origin or other ethnicities?

Directive No. 15 states that it is preferable to collect data on race and Hispanic separately to allow flexibility. If a combined format is used to collect racial and ethnic data the minimum acceptable categories are: American Indian or Alaskan Native; Asian or Pacific Islander; Hispanic; White, not of Hispanic origin; and Black, not of Hispanic origin. The use of the Hispanic category in the combined format does not provide information on the race of those selecting it. As a result, the combined format makes it impossible to distribute persons of Hispanic ethnicity by race and, therefore, reduces the utility of the four racial categories by excluding from them persons who would otherwise be included. Thus, the two formats currently permitted by Directive No. 15 for collecting racial and ethnic data do not provide comparable data.
Standards for the Classification of Federal Data on Race and Ethnicity | The White House

I might be mistaken by my statement earlier. Ii just remember being offended by having to take a government survey at work and being asked to select my ethnic back ground and myself telling HR that white is a color not a nationality.

 

[pioneerpete]

Lots of guesses. Lots of scenarios presented. No proof that Martin started the fight. Sorry.

Doesn't have to be. Has to be proof Zimmerman started the fight. If not reasonable doubt. He goes free.

 

[lilburnjoe]

If GZ is convicted based on the evidence, citizens will no longer be able to protect themselves from the thugs.

 

[wavingrl]

What in the world could be taking the jury this long? What issue is unclear?


Lord, I hope they get this right.

If they are trying to analyze the technical fyi on the gun/positions of the dummy--it may take a long time. Hopefully they are allowing those who know of such things--former CCP woman and safety officer woman to handle that.

'Peering into the heart and mind' of GZ or TM--that could also be endless.

Their foreperson should remind the group to focus.

 

[ScienceRocks]

If GZ is convicted based on the evidence, citizens will no longer be able to protect themselves from the thugs.

This is one of the reasons the left is fighting so hard for a conviction. They don't want anyone to defend themselves with the use of a firearm....

This will take that away from us...Hell, with their protected groups you won't even have the right to hit back.

It's all bull shit.

 

[beagle9]

Lots of guesses. Lots of scenarios presented. No proof that Martin started the fight. Sorry.

The only proof available, is all the physical and circumstantial evidence, along with the eyewitness account in which puts the puzzle together for most, so what is your hang up on the case ? I mean maybe you tell us why you think there is no proof that Martin started the confrontation, and this by using what we as well as you already know. It's easy to expect us to help you confirm, but how about you constructively looking for this information within the case yourself, and this in order to satisfy yourself that you are right and so many are wrong in your opinion.

We'll be waiting.

 

[Pheonixops]

I would like one of you nutters to prove to me that Martin threw the first punch or initiated the confrontation. You keep saying it like it is fact. It is conjecture. Nobody saw it. Nobody witnessed the start of the confrontation.

Thanks.

Martin walked back to Zimmerman.

Martin approached him suddenly out of the pitch dark

Martin's words are confrontational. "You got a problem?"

Martin has Zero damage to his body other than the gun shot wound

Zimmerman's nose was struck.

Hard to see how that ISN'T Trayvon Martin's fault.

Wasn't Martin on the phone when the fight started?

 

[pioneerpete]

If GZ is convicted based on the evidence, citizens will no longer be able to protect themselves from the thugs.

What evidence? If he's convicted it is to appease the mob. No evidence was presented by the state on the beginning of the altercation. Nobody knows for sure who started it. How can you not have a reasonable doubt?

 

[Ernie S.]

If we have to do this again, ummmm. No.

They won't bring charges again - let them take the fall.

They might if it's 5:1 for conviction, but 4:2 or worse, no way!

I'm little dinky hoping for hung. The state is the villain left holding the bag here. Then they get to figure out wth to do.

There will be problems with retrying Zim if the prosecutorial misconduct gets legs. I'm betting an appeals judge would rule Trayvon's cell phone files admissible.

Game OVER!

 

[Esmeralda]

Totally legal? Not necessarily so. It is not legal to stalk and spy on people, to create fear, to invade privacy. Sorry to disillusion, but it is not legal to do that.

GZ was not stalking. and him following TM was totally legal

I see it legal in the context of the watch program, and just as the dispatcher had suggested to Zimmerman when said "are you following him(?)", and GZ said yes, then next the dispatcher said "that we don't need you to do that sir". Now (imho) this was being said mainly for GZ's own protection in the situation, and in which GZ complied with afterwards when said OK.

The dispatcher with the assumption of course that GZ is the good guy for making the call in the first place, was worried about his safety when told him we don't need you to do that sir (follow Martin in the dark), otherwise instead of the dispatcher sighting some kind of law to GZ to not follow Martin because of that law, otherwise if he was saying this because of a law, then GZ would be breaking that law. This is what some would want it to appear as to be the case in all of this when the dispatcher said this to GZ " we don't need you to follow him sir", as it being based on some law in which he was using when said this.

So now it is the detractors opinion that the dispatcher at this point is now looking upon GZ as an iffy player who is breaking the law in the situation, instead of the dispatcher looking out for his safety in which was what the dispatch was doing all along when said this.

Now if he would have ignored the dispatcher telling him " we don't need you to do that sir", otherwise with silence, and the law would have shown up with Martin dead, and Zimmerman alive as the person who shot Martin dead, then Zimmerman would have a serious problem on his hands, but the fact that Martin replied to the dispatcher in compliance with the dispatchers alarming assessment of the situation, by him telling him that suggestion for his safety, places Zimmerman in a much better position for what would be found next in conjunction with everything that happened in testimony there of afterwards, because it makes sense as to how Zimmerman could have found himself facing an escalating situation after surveying the supposed suspect Martin that night, and Martin now knowing that he was being surveyed or looked upon by Zimmerman in a way in which he did not understand, so it became next a situation of grave confusion between the two, where as in the coming together of this confusion it unfortunately turns deadly within the dark of a stormy night for one of the people involved.

Now did Martin feel that he could take Zimmerman, for whom was following or surveying him in which he did not like, so he confronts Zimmerman in the thinking I am going to kick this creepy ass crackers butt for following me, but not knowing that the creepy ass cracker also had a gun because he was part of a neighborhood watch program ? If this is what Martin did or thought, then it should become a lesson learned by all in the future, that you don't come to a fight armed with nothing but your fist, when you ain't sure who this creepy ass cracker is in the fist place, and so if you could get yourself to safety and report that a creepy ass cracker was following you in the dark for no good reason, wouldn't that have been the best solution for Martin in the situation in hindsight now ? I have taken on some situations in my time in a foolish manor, and I was just fortunate that the one I was taking on did not have a gun, or I wouldn't be here today.

So what it comes down to, is if Zimmerman was within his legal right to survey the neighborhood under the watch program, and if he was within his legal means to be doing it in the way in which he was doing it, then he is in the clear, other than the fact of sadly allowing himself to be placed into a situation where a young man is dead now, and all because of his possible mistakes that were made upon his possible miss-identifying of Martin as a possible suspect in the problems that have been going on in the neighborhood lately in which are not proven he was linked to, and then Martin just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sadly it all added to the confusion due to the time of night that it was, the conditions of the night, the setting, the wearing of clothes that appear suspect, the walking and acting strangely that Zimmerman noticed as a watchman based on his supposed training I'm guessing, thus creating the perfect storm of confusion in which could even place a seasoned police officer in the same boat of miss-identifying a potential suspect in such a case, where as such conditions would make the police officer want to question the suspect as to where he is going maybe, and why he is out walking in such horrid conditions in a neighborhood plagued with crime ? It appears that what we have is the perfect storm of confusion in this whole tragic situation, and in such a situation people must know to keep their heads calm cool and collected or face the same possible results again and again, just as these types of scenarios sadly play out all over this nation in confusion there of, but it takes all to learn and keep themselves safe, and ultimately out of these perfect storms regardless of who it is that we may encounter or are dealing with at anytime in our lives.

Stay safe everybody and learn or educate yourselves, it is the only way forward in life.

Even if it is all just a "perfect storm of confusion," which I disagree with: it was a whole lot of monumental bad judgments on Zimmerman's part, but if we accept the "storm of confusion" idea, without the gun, there would be no dead kid. Zimmerman, this guy should not have been carrying a concealed weapon: he had no reason to have one, he was a nut case, he was on anti-depressants, he had a history of violence and problems with the police, etc. This guy should not have had a gun. No gun: no dead, innocent, unarmed civilian. Not a 'perfect storm of confusion,' but a big, huge problem of gun control.

 

[Ernie S.]

If we have to do this again, ummmm. No.

They won't bring charges again - let them take the fall.

They might if it's 5:1 for conviction, but 4:2 or worse, no way!

IMO I think it will be all on what the Feds want to do. The Feds are the ones that wanted to have this case prosecuted if my memory serves me right.

But the FBI already decided there was no reason for hate crimes prosecution.

 

[wavingrl]

It will take someone with balls to find him not guilty...

Most think this case is about race. While they were looking the wrong way, when all is said and done, it is actually more about gender.

lol--I won't touch that. Thinking that there might be a Femnazi in the group. Not entirely certain the jurors are all 'Southern women'. Living in Sanford, FL now but who knows where they might have lived before this.

Wondering if any of them have had experiences with the military--wife of, etc--those ladies are pretty tough. lol.