The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Truthseeker420]

A MUTUAL restraining order.

Next week, we will most likely find out that Martin was involved in a lot more than his troubles at school.

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Was he convicted? Got some news for you. He won't be this time either.

You might be right, the jury is almost all white and the prosecution is doing a horrible job with the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman.

 

[testarosa]

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Was he convicted? Got some news for you. He won't be this time either.

You might be right, the jury is almost all white and the prosecution is doing a horrible job with the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman.

Sail Foam Song...

I gots sail foam,
He gots sail foam,
She gots sail foam,
Dey got sail foam,
Wudn ya like ta haz a sail foam too?

 

[Sunshine]

How was Trayvon supposed to know the guy in the black and red jacket with the dome cut was just observing? Would you want some guy following you to observe you walking to your house like that? Some guy that is ignoring your requests to stop following? How do we know Zimmerman did not make the first punch or grab Trayvon's phone?

We don't, but that doesn't allow you to assume Zimmerman initiated the assault. Again! Being followed passively does not justify assault.

One can assume that since it was dark, Zimmerman could not locate Martin. However, Zimmerman was using a flashlight that would make it easy to locate him. Zimmerman had no reason to attack Martin. Police were on route.

TM's friend said she heard Zimmerman start the confrontation. Zimmerman said he was following him and Zimmerman wasn't going to let these(this) assholes get away.

Link?

 

[Truthseeker420]

We don't, but that doesn't allow you to assume Zimmerman initiated the assault. Again! Being followed passively does not justify assault.

One can assume that since it was dark, Zimmerman could not locate Martin. However, Zimmerman was using a flashlight that would make it easy to locate him. Zimmerman had no reason to attack Martin. Police were on route.

TM's friend said she heard Zimmerman start the confrontation. Zimmerman said he was following him and Zimmerman wasn't going to let these(this) assholes get away.

Link?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfxtYxxUDvc]HQ Trayvon Martin murder trial: Martin's ex-girlfriend, testifies [Day 3 Afternoon Session Part 2] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sunshine]

Not automatically, but I see that he has a vested interest in lying; in claiming the attack was more brutal and unprovoked than it was.

My position is not that enigmatic. He sought out a confrontation. I don't think he set out to kill or even hurt someone, but that's what happened. It stemmed from a God complex, from a guy who thought he was Wyatt Earp because he had a gun. He acted recklessly, confronted someone who was doing nothing wrong and who didn't want to be confronted, and got his ass whooped.

Had he not had a gun, the story probably would have ended there. He's all healed up now and he'd be getting on with his life, probably with the wisdom not to fuck with someone just because you don't like the way they look (meaning that he "looked suspicious," not black).

I think that Martin threw the first shot, but I think he did so because he feared he was about to be attacked. I don't think that was irrational on his part. A stranger is following you and now you ask him what the deal is and he reaches into his pocket. If this happens to me and I'm unarmed, I'm thinking this might be my only shot (like I said earlier).

The fact that he was losing a fight is not relevant. Who is ultimately responsible for that fight, is.

What in the evidence shows that Martin would have stopped beating Zimmerman if he hadn't been shot?

All of his prior victims, all the restraining orders? Oh that's right there were no prior victims or restraining orders on TM. What about Zimmerman?

When did this come into the trial? I must have missed something.

 

[Sarah G]

I nominate this post as the understatement of the year.

This means what?

That you know didley about the law.

Your "opinion" has any more weight?

Because why?

Because I have forgotten more about the law then you will ever know... that's why.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Was he convicted? Got some news for you. He won't be this time either.

You might be right, the jury is almost all white and the prosecution is doing a horrible job with the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman.

Can you please give me links to the evidence?

Thank you!

 

[Missourian]

The facts are a 17year old boy went to the store bought some skittles got caught by rain on the way back.

Was pursued by Zimmerman. I'd say followed, but ok.

Zimmerman calls the police the recording is made. Doing well so far.

Zimmerman admits to pursuit on the recording. Yep.

With the police on the way Zimmerman maintains pursuit. Oops, nope, not a fact. No evidence of this.

Zimmerman had previously stated on the recording that "they always get away." OK, it is a fact that he said it.

Zimmerman is confronted and questioned, ok sure... says "I don't have a problem" and reaches for his pocket. Yes, not necessarily a fact...Zimmerman's statement.

Trayvon, in response to the reach to the pocket and the statement "I don't have a problem," proceeds to fighting Trayvon. I think you mean "Martin attacks ZIMMERMAN physically". I agree that if Zimmerman's statement is accurate, this is a fact.

At one point we have a witness say that the guy on the bottom Zimmerman is moving the wrestling match to the concrete at which point the fight gets serious with Zimmerman crying for help and TM besting the guy on the bottom about 8-10sec of beating. OK, Zimmerman is crying for help and as Trayvon beats him, Zimmerman is on the ground. He has been attacked, there is no "fight", there is an attacker and a defender. The attacker has overcome the physical defenses of his victim. The attacker...Martin...does not abate, he continues his assault.

Then something happens and TM is dead with a gun shot wound to the chest. What happened was, in fear for his life or grave bodily injury and unable to retreat, with no immediate help forthcoming, Zimmerman exercised this right to defend himself with lethal force.

The facts are Zimmerman is on trial for the killing. The fact are Zimmerman admits to the killing. The facts are Zimmerman believes it was self defense. The facts are the state went from self defense, to wanting to try him for involuntary manslaughter, to trying him for 2nd degree murder. Irrelevant, politically motivated.

The facts are Zimmerman knew he should not purse or confront, eyes and ears only. The fact are Zimmerman had not pursued in prior cases. Many of which they did get away. Not facts. The fact is Zimmerman had every right to follow, and confront. But it was Trayvon that confronted, not Zimmerman.

My response in red above.

Contested views (your view in red):

>>> With the police on the way Zimmerman maintains pursuit. Oops, nope, not a fact. No evidence of this.

Zimmerman is on the "timed" audio tape with the dispatcher who says in summary, someone is on the way can you give me an address. Zimmerman pursues, the guy asks are you out of the car, the car door chime is going off, Zimmerman is in pursuit. Zimmerman is not confronted in his car, he is confronted based on his own admission outside his car, according to Zimmerman just at the point that he finally decided to end his pursuit and head back to his car. Your facts in this view appear to be "colored."

>>> At one point we have a witness say that the guy on the bottom Zimmerman is moving the wrestling match to the concrete at which point the fight gets serious with Zimmerman crying for help and TM besting the guy on the bottom about 8-10sec of beating. OK, Zimmerman is crying for help and as Trayvon beats him, Zimmerman is on the ground. He has been attacked, there is no "fight", there is an attacker and a defender. The attacker has overcome the physical defenses of his victim. The attacker...Martin...does not abate, he continues his assault.


You say he did not abate, there was no witness to the shooting itself so you don't really know if there was abatement or not. Since you are gonna make stuff up.. here are some made up alternatives that are just as likely as yours: Zimmerman drops his defenses so he can get to his gun, or Zimmerman drops his defenses and utters more racial slurs to encourage a few nice whelps to make it look good when he shoots him, or Zimmerman drops his defenses cause his arms are too tired then after 8sec he's got enough left to reach for the gun and was gonna make the guy back off when the gun just went off, or .. any number of other alternatives to your guess.

>>> Then something happens and TM is dead with a gun shot wound to the chest. What happened was, in fear for his life or grave bodily injury and unable to retreat, with no immediate help forthcoming, Zimmerman exercised this right to defend himself with lethal force.

Do you have a witness to the shooting to corroborate your no immediate help forthcoming? Do you have a witness to grave bodily injury? All I saw was a couple scratches and a bloody nose. No worse than lineman after a football game. Again here you are "making" stuff up. Coloring the facts to support self defense.

>>> The fact are Zimmerman admits to the killing. The facts are Zimmerman believes it was self defense. Irrelevant.


Not irrelevant for the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter.


>>> The facts are Zimmerman knew he should not purse or confront, eyes and ears only. The fact are Zimmerman had not pursued in prior cases. Many of which they did get away. Not facts. But it was Trayvon that confronted, not Zimmerman.

Yes my statements are in fact, facts that have been provided as evidence. Where as in this case your proof that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman is what? Video? Audio? DD? Are you sure you are not coloring the confrontation based on the accusation of the accused?

This is will be too confusing to respond to in toto.

Zimmerman is told "we don't need you to do that"...he says "ok"...there is no evidence that he pursued Martin beyond this exchange.

He says "I don't know where he is." after this exchange...you cannot pursue a person whose whereabouts are unknown to you.

He could search...but there is no evidence to support that either.

Knowing the facts of the case will help alleviate these mistaken supposition.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fact is there was a witness...Zimmerman.

Without any evidence that conflicts with his testimony, it is all the jury will be presented with.

 

[Truthseeker420]

Was he convicted? Got some news for you. He won't be this time either.

You might be right, the jury is almost all white and the prosecution is doing a horrible job with the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman.

Can you please give me links to the evidence?

Thank you!

Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman Case Witnesses | AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles

 

[Sunshine]

So in your mind, depraved as it appears to be, an 8year old little girl brandishing a toy gun and yelling bang, deserves to die. Nice.

My point went over your head like a 747. I would say, 'keep trying' but you are just too boneheaded to understand that in America anyone who believes their life is being threatened by anyone, regardless of the age of the person doing the threatening, has the right to defend their own life. That was just a few examples. There are many many more similar cases out there.

You assume it want over my head. My point is one that is typically not understood by authoritarians. Not to turn this to a political point. But you appear to believe a right to kill in self defense is the same as justification for taking a life in self defense. Authority to perform an act is not the same as justification for taking the act. If Trayvon had been packing and Zimmerman was not Trayvon could have led with his chin fallen to the concrete cried like a baby for 8sec when he knew someone was watching then shot and killed Zimmerman. Would he have been justified because it was self defense? Because he was able to intimidate Zimmerman into throwing punches? Or is self defense only for those in authority positions? What if Zimmerman was a bad cop and was beating on TM would you be defending the teen if he killed a cop in self defense?

Authority AND justification are what the law says they are. And the law says you are justified in killing a person who puts you in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. You are not good at playing semantics. You shouldn't not even try. You look sillier with every one of your biased, racist, made up facts posts.

 

[testarosa]

[MENTION=11800]Missourian[/MENTION] said "toto"

laughing out loud.

And the thread will never be the same again.

The Ebonics just sneaks out on youz

 

[RKMBrown]

Zimmerman followed to observe, not to confront or attack. Martin was aggressive Zimmerman was, shall I say, actively passive?

How was Trayvon supposed to know the guy in the black and red jacket with the dome cut was just observing? Would you want some guy following you to observe you walking to your house like that? Some guy that is ignoring your requests to stop following? How do we know Zimmerman did not make the first punch or grab Trayvon's phone?

You just keep making this stuff up as you go along.

I see so no one can speak up for the dead teen, cause you think he's a worthless "thug" right?

 

[Missourian]

You might be right, the jury is almost all white and the prosecution is doing a horrible job with the overwhelming evidence against Zimmerman.

Can you please give me links to the evidence?

Thank you!

Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman Case Witnesses | AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles

You need to stipulate "a reliable unbiased source...not a blog"...when dealing with Truthseeker.

Rule 41.

 

[Sunshine]

All of his prior victims, all the restraining orders? Oh that's right there were no prior victims or restraining orders on TM. What about Zimmerman?

A MUTUAL restraining order.

Next week, we will most likely find out that Martin was involved in a lot more than his troubles at school.

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Who testified to that? I didn't hear that testimony.

 

[Sunshine]

They WANT it to say:

That is what they keep arguing - that Zimmerman's injuries weren't severe enough to justify deadly force....

It's easy for someone to want it that way when they weren't the one having their head slammed into the concrete and weren't the one that had their nose broken.

IOU + rep when I can.

 

[RKMBrown]

My point went over your head like a 747. I would say, 'keep trying' but you are just too boneheaded to understand that in America anyone who believes their life is being threatened by anyone, regardless of the age of the person doing the threatening, has the right to defend their own life. That was just a few examples. There are many many more similar cases out there.

You assume it want over my head. My point is one that is typically not understood by authoritarians. Not to turn this to a political point. But you appear to believe a right to kill in self defense is the same as justification for taking a life in self defense. Authority to perform an act is not the same as justification for taking the act. If Trayvon had been packing and Zimmerman was not Trayvon could have led with his chin fallen to the concrete cried like a baby for 8sec when he knew someone was watching then shot and killed Zimmerman. Would he have been justified because it was self defense? Because he was able to intimidate Zimmerman into throwing punches? Or is self defense only for those in authority positions? What if Zimmerman was a bad cop and was beating on TM would you be defending the teen if he killed a cop in self defense?

Authority AND justification are what the law says they are. And the law says you are justified in killing a person who puts you in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. You are not good at playing semantics. You shouldn't not even try. You look sillier with every one of your biased, racist, made up facts posts.

Where did I provide a made up fact? I thought you went to school. Can you really not discern the difference between speculation and fact? FYI if I provide a fact, given that I am not a witness, you'll see me make a citation. Citations are typically done with quotes, or colons followed by a paragraph and a reference. A speculative sentence with a question mark on the end is not a fact.. it's speculation for discussion.

 

[testarosa]

How was Trayvon supposed to know the guy in the black and red jacket with the dome cut was just observing? Would you want some guy following you to observe you walking to your house like that? Some guy that is ignoring your requests to stop following? How do we know Zimmerman did not make the first punch or grab Trayvon's phone?

You just keep making this stuff up as you go along.

I see so no one can speak up for the dead teen, cause you think he's a worthless "thug" right?

WTH.

That doesn't even make sense in the evidence.

The State of Florida, US Justice Dept, FBI (dismissed), POTUS, Al, NBC, Jesse, BP's all spoke up.

No worries. "Speaking Up" has been all covered.

 

[Truthseeker420]

A MUTUAL restraining order.

Next week, we will most likely find out that Martin was involved in a lot more than his troubles at school.

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Who testified to that? I didn't hear that testimony.

The police report is in evidence, there has been no witness testimony yet.

 

[Missourian]

@Missourian said "toto"

laughing out loud.

And the thread will never be the same again.

The Ebonics just sneaks out on youz

Reign it in there, Cochise.

It's Latin, meaning altogether or wholly.

in toto - definition of in toto by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


​

 

[testarosa]

A MUTUAL restraining order.

Next week, we will most likely find out that Martin was involved in a lot more than his troubles at school.

The judge usually restrains both parties from seeing each other, but Zimmerman was the only one arrested and she was listed as the victim. Zimmerman was accused of hitting her for chewing gum and kicking her dog.

Who testified to that? I didn't hear that testimony.

That's because it falls under Fantasy Land with the case.