The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Cuyo]

Cart before the horse. He's still innocent. They are on jury selection. Innocent until proven.. what evidence we talking about? POTUS saying he could be his son?

Puh-leeze. More along the lines of... ya know... the dead un-armed body and the 911 transcript where he was told not to pursue...

But yes you're correct, he's innocent until proven guilty. At this point in the judicial process he's "Accused..." and there appears to be a pretty strong case against him.

I'll be pretty shocked if it's a not guilty. Hung-jury... Not so surprised.

Since we're talking about evidence, what's the evidence for his affirmative defense?? The accused's claim that "He hit me?"

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Oh boy.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

Puh-leeze. More along the lines of... ya know... the dead un-armed body and the 911 transcript where he was told not to pursue...

But yes you're correct, he's innocent until proven guilty. At this point in the judicial process he's "Accused..." and there appears to be a pretty strong case against him.

I'll be pretty shocked if it's a not guilty. Hung-jury... Not so surprised.

Since we're talking about evidence, what's the evidence for his affirmative defense?? The accused's claim that "He hit me?"

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

State v. Zimmerman: Evidence released by prosecutor

That link was posted earlier by WorldWatcher on the 4th page of this thread. It includes witness statements (yes, there is one, possibly two if I remember correctly, that witnessed TM stand over and repeatedly hit Z when he was on the ground). More than one witness stated that Z was yelling help, not TM. One of the police reports states that TM's father said it was not his son on the recording yelling for help. The various witness accounts do not contradict each other. It's worth reading through. I look forward to seeing the actual evidence and to hearing what the witnesses have to say in court, from both sides. No one is guilty of anything at this point, only accused.

 

[dilloduck]

Puh-leeze. More along the lines of... ya know... the dead un-armed body and the 911 transcript where he was told not to pursue...

But yes you're correct, he's innocent until proven guilty. At this point in the judicial process he's "Accused..." and there appears to be a pretty strong case against him.

I'll be pretty shocked if it's a not guilty. Hung-jury... Not so surprised.

Since we're talking about evidence, what's the evidence for his affirmative defense?? The accused's claim that "He hit me?"

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Oh boy.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

What's bizarre about it ? What EVIDENCE is the prosecution going to present that will prove this version to be bizarre ?

 

[25Caliber]

Puh-leeze. More along the lines of... ya know... the dead un-armed body and the 911 transcript where he was told not to pursue...

But yes you're correct, he's innocent until proven guilty. At this point in the judicial process he's "Accused..." and there appears to be a pretty strong case against him.

I'll be pretty shocked if it's a not guilty. Hung-jury... Not so surprised.

Since we're talking about evidence, what's the evidence for his affirmative defense?? The accused's claim that "He hit me?"

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Oh boy.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

They are the facts because it is supported by the tape to 911...he was following trying to give a location deep into the complex (he gave the approximate apartment number)....then he was told to stop and he was almost back to his car when trayvon approached him...the proximitiy of the fight and where he was when he gave 911 the location suggests and proves that he was on his way back to his car as the dispatcher suggested he do.

If the fight was in the back of the complex, then I could see your point...it wasnt and that is in evidence and complies with the GZ story. It is not criminal for a NW captain to follow someone who looks suspicious to him...it is a crime to punch someone that is going back to their car and then slamming their head into the pavement. Those facts do not bode well for trayvon and its why MSNBC did their creative editing to fit their narrative...remember that?

No I dont think we should skip the trial at all. I think the case should be heard by a jury...but florida law is florida law and according to the law, GZ has a good case for self defense....the law says he can do what he did.

I think that because it was a kid and someone died, then a jury does need to hear it for sure. Otherwise everyone would just make up a self defense and never be arrested. When someone dies, that changes things, when it is someone under the age of 18 killed by an adult 10 years older, then I think a jury most definitely needs to hear it. Im just saying that Trayvon could have avoided it...he was being followed from a distance and the follower was going back to his car. Trayvon was not cornered at gun point...he wasnt chased and screamed at or threatened. Trayvon wanted to fight...if he didnt want to fight, then he didnt have to...he could have just went home...agree?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

State v. Zimmerman: Evidence released by prosecutor

That link was posted earlier by WorldWatcher on the 4th page of this thread. It includes witness statements (yes, there is one, possibly two if I remember correctly, that witnessed TM stand over and repeatedly hit Z when he was on the ground). More than one witness stated that Z was yelling help, not TM. One of the police reports states that TM's father said it was not his son on the recording yelling for help. The various witness accounts do not contradict each other. It's worth reading through. I look forward to seeing the actual evidence and to hearing what the witnesses have to say in court, from both sides. No one is guilty of anything at this point, only accused.

from what i gathered in Fridays court session

during cross by the defense of the states audio "expert"

omara brought up to the expert if he had knowledge of a 2nd witness

that saw martin on top of zimmerman

and said it was zimmerman yelling

the state objected but the judge over ruled

until then i was only aware of the one witness

but it sounded like two now

 

[Snookie]

I doubt it freedombecki. Even though the Prosecution just dumped a 1,000 plus pages of new evidence on the defense last week, the Judge turned down a request for a delay in the trial.

These Prosecutors are a piece of work. They've purposefully been screwing over the Defense on evidence from the get go.

It's disgusting.

The judge started the day saying no to O'Mara's third request for a trial delay. Last week prosecutors handed over more than 1,000 pages of new evidence from Trayvon's cell phone - many of them photos - O'Mara said.

George Zimmerman trial Day 1 jury selection - Page 2 - OrlandoSentinel.com

Disgusting? So is the murder of an unarmed young man [for you, probably young boy].

Remember the good old days in America? Remember when people used to believe a man was innocent until proven guilty?

Now on to the scumbuckets known as the Prosecution.

Lawyer: Zimmerman prosecutor withheld evidence

By KYLE HIGHTOWER
Associated Press

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A court employee who retrieved photos and deleted text messages from Trayvon Martin's cellphone has been placed on administrative leave after an attorney testified that prosecutors didn't properly turn over the evidence to the defense, an attorney said Wednesday.

Former prosecutor Wesley White said he was ethically obligated to reveal that Fourth Judicial Circuit Information Technology Director Ben Kruidbos retrieved the data that weren't turned over.

Kruidbos was placed on leave shortly after White testified during a hearing in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder case on Tuesday. White said Kruidbos was interviewed by state attorney investigators twice before the action was taken.

White said he wasn't surprised of possible evidence violations by Zimmerman prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.

"I was saddened by it, but I'm not surprised," he said.

White first learned about the evidence through Kruidbos more than a month ago, he said.



ORLANDO, Fla.: Lawyer: Zimmerman prosecutor withheld evidence - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

I remember the good old days. No Miranda warnings and the cops would beat a confession out of people. All white juries for black people.

Spare me!

 

[testarosa]

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Oh boy.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

What's bizarre about it ? What EVIDENCE is the prosecution going to present that will prove this version to be bizarre ?

LOL at your Fidel quote... Is he dead yet?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...

Please site the source of these "facts" other than from the statement of the individual charged with the shooting.

Thank you in advance.

State v. Zimmerman: Evidence released by prosecutor

That link was posted earlier by WorldWatcher on the 4th page of this thread. It includes witness statements (yes, there is one, possibly two if I remember correctly, that witnessed TM stand over and repeatedly hit Z when he was on the ground). More than one witness stated that Z was yelling help, not TM. One of the police reports states that TM's father said it was not his son on the recording yelling for help. The various witness accounts do not contradict each other. It's worth reading through. I look forward to seeing the actual evidence and to hearing what the witnesses have to say in court, from both sides. No one is guilty of anything at this point, only accused.

All of the witness statement take up the events of that night AFTER the altercation had started. I don't remember any witness providing a statement that shows who initiated the altercation.

There is no doubt that GZ and TM ended up on a fight, the first thing the jury will have to determine in their deliberations is who is responsible for starting the fight. If it's Martin - Zimmerman walks. On the other hand if they determine that Zimmerman's action created a situation where (from Martin perspective) Zimmerman created an imminent treat, then it gets more complicated. If Zimmerman is viewed by the jury as the aggressor, then he can lose his self-defense immunity from responsibility for his actions leading up to the use of self-defense.


>>>>


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

They are the facts because it is supported by the tape to 911...

No they aren't.

he was following trying to give a location deep into the complex (he gave the approximate apartment number)....

No he didn't.

he was following trying to give a location deep into the complex (he gave the approximate apartment number)....

Zimmerman claimed he followed Martin to use the pass through to the north side of two housing sections to find a street sign so he could give an address to the police because he didn't know what street he was on. A couple of things were that doesn't ring true. First, there are only 3 streets in the development (Twin Trees Lane, Retreat View Circle, and Long Oak Way). Zimmerman lived on Retreat View Circle which is the street he says he was going through to find the name of, the same street he lived on. Retreat view Circle is a street that loops around the whole complex, The other street is the one he drives into and out of every time he entered or left the development for the two years he lived there which is Twin Trees Lane which bisects the loop created by Retreat View Circle.

Second, there are no street signs on houses, there are house numbers. The closest street sign which would tell him the name of Twin Trees Lane was back toward the clubhouse in the exact opposite direction that he headed. He lived there for two years and was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch and didn't know the name of the main street running through the development and didn't know where to go to find a street sign (which are at intersections)? He was an adult and didn't know that street signs are not mounted in the darkened area behind houses?

then he was told to stop and he was almost back to his car when trayvon approached him...the proximitiy of the fight and where he was when he gave 911 the location suggests and proves that he was on his way back to his car as the dispatcher suggested he do.

No it doesn't. If you listen to the tape you can clearly hear Zimmerman exit the vehicle, the wind noise and Zimmerman's voice change when he exists. Within 11-13 seconds he'd interacted with the dispatcher and the dispatcher made his "following" statement. Yet the altercation didn't happen until about 3 minutes later after the end of the dispatcher call.

He did not stop and start returning the his truck, he continued away from the truck in the direction that Martin travelled supposedly to find street signs mounted behind houses.

If the fight was in the back of the complex, then I could see your point...it wasnt and that is in evidence and complies with the GZ story.

Actually the evidence conflicts with GZ's story. GZ said he was on the East/West path at the intersection to a south walkway (a "T" intersection if you will). GZ claims that TM punched him in the face knocking him to the ground, jumped on top of him pinning him to the ground where the rest of the fight ensued. However TM's body was (IIRC) 40-50 feet down the south path. If the physical evidence firmed GZ's story, then the body would have been very near the "T" intersection.


>>>>

 

[testarosa]

I think the first motion for mistrial should be on the back of POTUS for sticking his nose in and f'ing around with due process.

Someone send M O'M the "Thanks Obama!" video, he can just play that for Judge Nelson.

 

[jon_berzerk]

They are the facts because it is supported by the tape to 911...

No they aren't.

he was following trying to give a location deep into the complex (he gave the approximate apartment number)....

No he didn't.



Zimmerman claimed he followed Martin to use the pass through to the north side of two housing sections to find a street sign so he could give an address to the police because he didn't know what street he was on. A couple of things were that doesn't ring true. First, there are only 3 streets in the development (Twin Trees Lane, Retreat View Circle, and Long Oak Way). Zimmerman lived on Retreat View Circle which is the street he says he was going through to find the name of, the same street he lived on. Retreat view Circle is a street that loops around the whole complex, The other street is the one he drives into and out of every time he entered or left the development for the two years he lived there which is Twin Trees Lane which bisects the loop created by Retreat View Circle.

Second, there are no street signs on houses, there are house numbers. The closest street sign which would tell him the name of Twin Trees Lane was back toward the clubhouse in the exact opposite direction that he headed. He lived there for two years and was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch and didn't know the name of the main street running through the development and didn't know where to go to find a street sign (which are at intersections)? He was an adult and didn't know that street signs are not mounted in the darkened area behind houses?

then he was told to stop and he was almost back to his car when trayvon approached him...the proximitiy of the fight and where he was when he gave 911 the location suggests and proves that he was on his way back to his car as the dispatcher suggested he do.

No it doesn't. If you listen to the tape you can clearly hear Zimmerman exit the vehicle, the wind noise and Zimmerman's voice change when he exists. Within 11-13 seconds he'd interacted with the dispatcher and the dispatcher made his "following" statement. Yet the altercation didn't happen until about 3 minutes later after the end of the dispatcher call.

He did not stop and start returning the his truck, he continued away from the truck in the direction that Martin travelled supposedly to find street signs mounted behind houses.

If the fight was in the back of the complex, then I could see your point...it wasnt and that is in evidence and complies with the GZ story.

Actually the evidence conflicts with GZ's story. GZ said he was on the East/West path at the intersection to a south walkway (a "T" intersection if you will). GZ claims that TM punched him in the face knocking him to the ground, jumped on top of him pinning him to the ground where the rest of the fight ensued. However TM's body was (IIRC) 40-50 feet down the south path. If the physical evidence firmed GZ's story, then the body would have been very near the "T" intersection.


>>>>

i watched an interesting interview with some of the lawyers involved

in the case omara pointed out that during the call between zimmerman and dispatch

dispatch asked for feedback at least twice on what martin was doing now

as for the T the incident did happen close to the T

 

[WorldWatcher]

They are the facts because it is supported by the tape to 911...

No they aren't.



No he didn't.



Zimmerman claimed he followed Martin to use the pass through to the north side of two housing sections to find a street sign so he could give an address to the police because he didn't know what street he was on. A couple of things were that doesn't ring true. First, there are only 3 streets in the development (Twin Trees Lane, Retreat View Circle, and Long Oak Way). Zimmerman lived on Retreat View Circle which is the street he says he was going through to find the name of, the same street he lived on. Retreat view Circle is a street that loops around the whole complex, The other street is the one he drives into and out of every time he entered or left the development for the two years he lived there which is Twin Trees Lane which bisects the loop created by Retreat View Circle.

Second, there are no street signs on houses, there are house numbers. The closest street sign which would tell him the name of Twin Trees Lane was back toward the clubhouse in the exact opposite direction that he headed. He lived there for two years and was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch and didn't know the name of the main street running through the development and didn't know where to go to find a street sign (which are at intersections)? He was an adult and didn't know that street signs are not mounted in the darkened area behind houses?



No it doesn't. If you listen to the tape you can clearly hear Zimmerman exit the vehicle, the wind noise and Zimmerman's voice change when he exists. Within 11-13 seconds he'd interacted with the dispatcher and the dispatcher made his "following" statement. Yet the altercation didn't happen until about 3 minutes later after the end of the dispatcher call.

He did not stop and start returning the his truck, he continued away from the truck in the direction that Martin travelled supposedly to find street signs mounted behind houses.

If the fight was in the back of the complex, then I could see your point...it wasnt and that is in evidence and complies with the GZ story.

Actually the evidence conflicts with GZ's story. GZ said he was on the East/West path at the intersection to a south walkway (a "T" intersection if you will). GZ claims that TM punched him in the face knocking him to the ground, jumped on top of him pinning him to the ground where the rest of the fight ensued. However TM's body was (IIRC) 40-50 feet down the south path. If the physical evidence firmed GZ's story, then the body would have been very near the "T" intersection.


>>>>

i watched an interesting interview with some of the lawyers involved

in the case omara pointed out that during the call between zimmerman and dispatch

dispatch asked for feedback at least twice on what martin was doing now

as for the T the incident did happen close to the T

Look at crime scene photos and maps, the body was south of the "T" intersection.


>>>>

 

[jon_berzerk]

No they aren't.



No he didn't.



Zimmerman claimed he followed Martin to use the pass through to the north side of two housing sections to find a street sign so he could give an address to the police because he didn't know what street he was on. A couple of things were that doesn't ring true. First, there are only 3 streets in the development (Twin Trees Lane, Retreat View Circle, and Long Oak Way). Zimmerman lived on Retreat View Circle which is the street he says he was going through to find the name of, the same street he lived on. Retreat view Circle is a street that loops around the whole complex, The other street is the one he drives into and out of every time he entered or left the development for the two years he lived there which is Twin Trees Lane which bisects the loop created by Retreat View Circle.

Second, there are no street signs on houses, there are house numbers. The closest street sign which would tell him the name of Twin Trees Lane was back toward the clubhouse in the exact opposite direction that he headed. He lived there for two years and was the Captain of the Neighborhood Watch and didn't know the name of the main street running through the development and didn't know where to go to find a street sign (which are at intersections)? He was an adult and didn't know that street signs are not mounted in the darkened area behind houses?



No it doesn't. If you listen to the tape you can clearly hear Zimmerman exit the vehicle, the wind noise and Zimmerman's voice change when he exists. Within 11-13 seconds he'd interacted with the dispatcher and the dispatcher made his "following" statement. Yet the altercation didn't happen until about 3 minutes later after the end of the dispatcher call.

He did not stop and start returning the his truck, he continued away from the truck in the direction that Martin travelled supposedly to find street signs mounted behind houses.



Actually the evidence conflicts with GZ's story. GZ said he was on the East/West path at the intersection to a south walkway (a "T" intersection if you will). GZ claims that TM punched him in the face knocking him to the ground, jumped on top of him pinning him to the ground where the rest of the fight ensued. However TM's body was (IIRC) 40-50 feet down the south path. If the physical evidence firmed GZ's story, then the body would have been very near the "T" intersection.


>>>>

i watched an interesting interview with some of the lawyers involved

in the case omara pointed out that during the call between zimmerman and dispatch

dispatch asked for feedback at least twice on what martin was doing now

as for the T the incident did happen close to the T

Look at crime scene photos and maps, the body was south of the "T" intersection.


>>>>

yes but the distance is short

your splitting hairs

 

[Sunshine]

I agree, however, the law and the original Sanford pd report are clear... Then the emotion, signs, politics, et al enter the mix. Stand Your Ground hearing wasn't done because the judge hears and decides that. She is not going to be the one on the hotseat to rule stand your ground and end it with the gov, feds, POTUS, enter other parties with agendas here, weighed in, so she would have denied it and bound it over for trial anyhow. So smart move on M O'M's part to not let that shadow and film of guilt of a SYG decision taint the jury and trial and take his chances with a jury. Again, under "normal" circumstances, I believe SYD would have been done and the possible outcome of this was changed since the get-go.

the stand your ground rule is a small part in the spectrum of self defense

George did not have the opportunity to back away so he did not have the choice

to stand his ground

he was pinned to the ground on his back

this is why there was not a SYG hearing

the defense is proper using self defense with immunity in this case

Elaborate on that self defense vs stand your ground and what you mean by didn't have the chance to back away... I have an inside on the trial... I'm not beating you up, just want to know what you mean by self defense vs SYG. I heard the reason differently.

A grand jury member?

 

[Sunshine]

Any chance the judge will do the right thing and throw the case out of his courtroom?

I doubt it freedombecki. Even though the Prosecution just dumped a 1,000 plus pages of new evidence on the defense last week, the Judge turned down a request for a delay in the trial.

These Prosecutors are a piece of work. They've purposefully been screwing over the Defense on evidence from the get go.

It's disgusting.

The judge started the day saying no to O'Mara's third request for a trial delay. Last week prosecutors handed over more than 1,000 pages of new evidence from Trayvon's cell phone - many of them photos - O'Mara said.

George Zimmerman trial Day 1 jury selection - Page 2 - OrlandoSentinel.com

Yeah, of course they asked for a delay. But you would have to understand the reality of law reading. In law school you read and are tested on 2000 - 4000 pages/week. 1000 pages is not a big deal and is likely nothing more than bullshit.

 

[Sunshine]

Is it standard in Florida to only have 6 jurors and 4 alternates?

In 1970, the U.S. Supreme Court approved the use of a 6-person jury in a Florida criminal case, ruling that neither the language nor the history of the U.S Constitution mandates a 12-person jury. Instead, the Supreme Court, referring to the 12-person jury as a “historical accident,” held that the purpose of a jury is to provide a cross-section of the community, and juries of less than 12 persons in serious felony cases do not violate that purpose or the constitution. Nevertheless, only two states in the U.S. (Florida and Connecticut) allow for 6-person juries for serious felony accusations.

Why are some cases decided by only 6 jurors instead of 12? | Bonnie Sudderth's Blog

 

[jon_berzerk]

I agree, however, the law and the original Sanford pd report are clear... Then the emotion, signs, politics, et al enter the mix. Stand Your Ground hearing wasn't done because the judge hears and decides that. She is not going to be the one on the hotseat to rule stand your ground and end it with the gov, feds, POTUS, enter other parties with agendas here, weighed in, so she would have denied it and bound it over for trial anyhow. So smart move on M O'M's part to not let that shadow and film of guilt of a SYG decision taint the jury and trial and take his chances with a jury. Again, under "normal" circumstances, I believe SYD would have been done and the possible outcome of this was changed since the get-go.

the stand your ground rule is a small part in the spectrum of self defense

George did not have the opportunity to back away so he did not have the choice

to stand his ground

he was pinned to the ground on his back

this is why there was not a SYG hearing

the defense is proper using self defense with immunity in this case

Elaborate on that self defense vs stand your ground and what you mean by didn't have the chance to back away... I have an inside on the trial... I'm not beating you up, just want to know what you mean by self defense vs SYG. I heard the reason differently.

sorry i missed your question

SYG is in the spectrum of self defense

a position that one could retreat but didnt =stand your ground

zimmerman didnt have the chance to retreat

he was knocked to the ground and jumped on

 

[jon_berzerk]

Is it standard in Florida to only have 6 jurors and 4 alternates?

In 1970, the U.S. Supreme Court approved the use of a 6-person jury in a Florida criminal case, ruling that neither the language nor the history of the U.S Constitution mandates a 12-person jury. Instead, the Supreme Court, referring to the 12-person jury as a “historical accident,” held that the purpose of a jury is to provide a cross-section of the community, and juries of less than 12 persons in serious felony cases do not violate that purpose or the constitution. Nevertheless, only two states in the U.S. (Florida and Connecticut) allow for 6-person juries for serious felony accusations.

Why are some cases decided by only 6 jurors instead of 12? | Bonnie Sudderth's Blog

that was helpful

i was wondering about the 6 person jury

thanks

 

[Sallow]

Whats going against Trayvon is that he threw the first punch and he returned the pursuit. GZ didnt chase him down...he was following from a distance with 911 on the phone...he then was headed back to his car when Trayvon approached him. Those are the facts...Trayvon could have just kept walking to where he was going and been fine...but nope he circled back and punched the guy in the face and slammed his head into the sidewalk.

Why are those "The facts?" Because they're the accused's version of events? Are they universally accepted?

Unfortunately, Trayvon isnt alive to defend himself, but throwing the punch and getting in a fight with the neighborhood watch guy does not help him. Until the shot went off, it was GZ that was the victim. GZ followed from a distance but he didnt assault the kid...trayvon did the assaulting and lost his life because of it.

Again this POV is just bizarre. Do you think we should skip the trial then??

State v. Zimmerman: Evidence released by prosecutor

That link was posted earlier by WorldWatcher on the 4th page of this thread. It includes witness statements (yes, there is one, possibly two if I remember correctly, that witnessed TM stand over and repeatedly hit Z when he was on the ground). More than one witness stated that Z was yelling help, not TM. One of the police reports states that TM's father said it was not his son on the recording yelling for help. The various witness accounts do not contradict each other. It's worth reading through. I look forward to seeing the actual evidence and to hearing what the witnesses have to say in court, from both sides. No one is guilty of anything at this point, only accused.

Funny that when Zimmerman listened to the tape..he questioned whether the person yelling for help was him. Even after the officer that did the questioning said it was.

 

[Sunshine]

Is it?

I don't remember a POTUS "could've been my son" on any other trial since.... Let me think. Ever.

So what? Big deal.

The big deal here is he is Zimmerman's president too. He should keep his lying agitating mouth shut and stick to fucking things up for all citizens of the United States in a less direct manner.