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That's up a jury.
No. It's not. It is a matter of law. The judge will TELL the jury as much. The jury will NEVER ever be told that the injuries on Zimmerman needed to BE life threatening. Such an instruction would be erroneous, in fact.
What the defense has to do is demonstrate enough evidence to show the jury that a defendant reasonably felt that his life was in danger or that he was facing the risk of serious physical injury.
And..by the evidence..it seems that:
A. Zimmerman instigated the fight.
B. He was not in danger at any time. None of his injuries were life threatening. The fight itself was very short. And the police arrived 15 seconds after Martin was killed.
That's up a jury.
No. It's not. It is a matter of law. The judge will TELL the jury as much. The jury will NEVER ever be told that the injuries on Zimmerman needed to BE life threatening. Such an instruction would be erroneous, in fact.
What the defense has to do is demonstrate enough evidence to show the jury that a defendant reasonably felt that his life was in danger or that he was facing the risk of serious physical injury.
And..by the evidence..it seems that:
A. Zimmerman instigated the fight.
B. He was not in danger at any time. None of his injuries were life threatening. The fight itself was very short. And the police arrived 15 seconds after Martin was killed.
Besides (N)Obama, the Judge is clearly in the tank for the prosecution. Not unusual, and has been discussed here yesterday, but many of her rulings have been unduly prejudicial to the defense, I feel.
Two off the top of my head...1) allowing in "profiling" and "wannabe cop" into openings, and 2) disallowing GZ's family to be present in court to support their son. The limited testimony they were on witness lists for did not warrant their ban. And the P never even called them. Again, been discussed, but still not a fair Judge-ment call.
how about the dead man cannot stand Fact
vital testimony
Assuming that GZ gets acquitted, will the dopey loudmouth in chief, Barack Obummer, invite GZ over for a beer in the Rose Garden?
Assuming that GZ gets acquitted, will the dopey loudmouth in chief, Barack Obummer, invite GZ over for a beer in the Rose Garden?
Race came into play the second Zimmerman started following Martin because he was black. Deny it all the hell you want, but the reason an innocent kid walking in HIS (Zimmermans) area was considered "suspect" was because he was black.
Zimmerman is the one who started the race thing.
If you are denying this fact, explain what Martin did wrong when he was walking home? Why was he a "suspect". That is what makes me say, fuck you Zimmerman.
Well, that and the fact that he did not just stay in his truck and let the real cops do their thing. You know, approach Martin for no reason and send him on his way without shooting him.
Per Florida stats and FBI stats:
So crime statistics in Florida that black males are 7 % of the population and commit burglary 9 times greater than whites is racist.
Nationally of the 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites blacks commit 85% of them and whites 15%.
Blacks commit violent crimes at a rate 40 times more against whites than whites against blacks.
Blacks males are 7% of the population yet commit crime 8 times the rate of whites.
Following someone that is black in your neighborhood is not a crime and is not racist.
Statistics are not racist.
You are very right. Profiling is not bad. But before you go after someone, you have to have a reason more than race, and I question GZ's suspicions. "He's up to something" doesn't define what made TM suspicious.
Was he looking in windows, was he using a flashlight looking in windows...just what was he doing that made him suspicious looking?
So it's your contention that Zimmerman's injuries, what you know up to this point, were life threatening, right?
Nope. As I have repeatedly tried to tell you (and others) the defense has exactly NO BURDEN WHATSOEVER to show that any injury was life threatening.
That is not a requirement of the justification defense. Never was and still isn't.
First off..yeah..he does have a burden to show why he thought it was reasonable to kill an unarmed human being not involved in criminal activity.
This is not self defense..per se..this is murder.
I agree...and did you hear the judge deny the defense's requests to approach the bench?...multiple times? I seem to recall a commentator pointing that out.Per Florida stats and FBI stats:
So crime statistics in Florida that black males are 7 % of the population and commit burglary 9 times greater than whites is racist.
Nationally of the 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites blacks commit 85% of them and whites 15%.
Blacks commit violent crimes at a rate 40 times more against whites than whites against blacks.
Blacks males are 7% of the population yet commit crime 8 times the rate of whites.
Following someone that is black in your neighborhood is not a crime and is not racist.
Statistics are not racist.
You are very right. Profiling is not bad. But before you go after someone, you have to have a reason more than race, and I question GZ's suspicions. "He's up to something" doesn't define what made TM suspicious.
Was he looking in windows, was he using a flashlight looking in windows...just what was he doing that made him suspicious looking?
Per Wiki, Zimmerman said:
"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about" and "looking at all the houses".
This is in the context of a string of break-ins in his neighborhood. Zimmerman had reason to be on alert.
And as we know, though the judge didn't let it be entered into evidence, Martin did have drugs in his system, at a level which could have had an influence on his behavior according to the medical examiner. The judge's refusal to let the ME tell that is what could help Zimmerman win on appeal if he is not acquitted outright.
Per Florida stats and FBI stats:
So crime statistics in Florida that black males are 7 % of the population and commit burglary 9 times greater than whites is racist.
Nationally of the 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites blacks commit 85% of them and whites 15%.
Blacks commit violent crimes at a rate 40 times more against whites than whites against blacks.
Blacks males are 7% of the population yet commit crime 8 times the rate of whites.
Following someone that is black in your neighborhood is not a crime and is not racist.
Statistics are not racist.
You are very right. Profiling is not bad. But before you go after someone, you have to have a reason more than race, and I question GZ's suspicions. "He's up to something" doesn't define what made TM suspicious.
Was he looking in windows, was he using a flashlight looking in windows...just what was he doing that made him suspicious looking?
Per Wiki, Zimmerman said:
"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about" and "looking at all the houses".
This is in the context of a string of break-ins in his neighborhood. Zimmerman had reason to be on alert.
And as we know, though the judge didn't let it be entered into evidence, Martin did have drugs in his system, at a level which could have had an influence on his behavior according to the medical examiner. The judge's refusal to let the ME tell that is what could help Zimmerman win on appeal if he is not acquitted outright.
JQPublic1 said:Do you also know that things like hands are movable objects that can defy gravity? The fingers can also reach around behind objects like GZ's head to get a firmer grasp while the thumbs are placed somewhere near the face to facilitate a more secure "hold." Meanwhile, a struggle is ensuing which means GZ was probably turning his head from side to side to avoid blows from at least one of Martin's fists or open hands. You failed the physics test, sir!
Quantum Windbag said:Is it normal, for you, to hold an object that you intend to hit against something in such a way that your hand is between the object and the impact area? If so, can I please watch the next time you pick up a hammer to pound a nail?
You DO have the right to shoot another person when that other person is beating you and pounding your head into the pavement if, under those circumstances, you reasonably feel that your life is in peril or your are facing the risk of serious physical injury because of the beat down.
It doesn't matter if the other guy is armed or not. Oh, and that kind of a beat down IS breaking the law.
Quite often, the one who resorts to self defense IS the only surviving witness.
The only problem with that..is that you have to establish that it was the type of beating that warranted the action.
You make thing a few boo boos are life threatening. I don't.
And given that it was Zimmerman that initiated the incident, I think that "self defense" here should require, at the very least, a reasonable fear that death was imminent.
GZ and his defense team DID establish that he got the kind of beating that warrants raising the claim of justification. NOW it is up to the STATE to DISPROVE it.
It is not the degree of injury suffered that justifies the action.
It is the kind of injury one reasonably feels, under the circumstances, that he is confronted with.
And no. I don't think a few boo boos are life threatening. But I DO think that if you have a guy on top of you pounding your noggin onto the pavement after you have had your nose broken by that guy, you MIGHT very well think that it is going to END badly for you. REAL badly. You might think you are about to have your skull busted or that you are about to die. (I also don't think a broken nose is anywhere near akin to a mere boo boo.)
YOU seem to think that such a thought process is unreasonable unless the injuries are already severe. I think you are simply and totally wrong on that point.
No, it won't... I have come to expect the worst and most unjust of outcomes when it comes to justice for Black people in this country. I just hope the prosecutors reach down and dig into Zimmerman's mind. did he have his gun drawn as would be expected when chasing a dangerous suspect through darkened areas? Why hasn't that question been brought up?
yes, it will suck to be you.
In that case, if GZ is acquitted it will suck to be any unarmed person who ventures into the night. It won't suck to be me because I am armed!
BTW, you did not answer my question... Why would a coward like GZ chase a "dangerous suspect" without having his gun out and ready when and if he caught up to him? Ignoring that question won't make it go away!
You are very right. Profiling is not bad. But before you go after someone, you have to have a reason more than race, and I question GZ's suspicions. "He's up to something" doesn't define what made TM suspicious.
Was he looking in windows, was he using a flashlight looking in windows...just what was he doing that made him suspicious looking?
Per Wiki, Zimmerman said:
"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about" and "looking at all the houses".
This is in the context of a string of break-ins in his neighborhood. Zimmerman had reason to be on alert.
And as we know, though the judge didn't let it be entered into evidence, Martin did have drugs in his system, at a level which could have had an influence on his behavior according to the medical examiner. The judge's refusal to let the ME tell that is what could help Zimmerman win on appeal if he is not acquitted outright.
under florida rules
the defense can not bring up those things about the victim
unless he/she knew the victim
they can however bring them up if a door to it was opened
Besides (N)Obama, the Judge is clearly in the tank for the prosecution. Not unusual, and has been discussed here yesterday, but many of her rulings have been unduly prejudicial to the defense, I feel.
Two off the top of my head...1) allowing in "profiling" and "wannabe cop" into openings, and 2) disallowing GZ's family to be present in court to support their son. The limited testimony they were on witness lists for did not warrant their ban. And the P never even called them. Again, been discussed, but still not a fair Judge-ment call.
how about the dead man cannot stand Fact
vital testimony
Dead men don't wear plaid.
The only problem with that..is that you have to establish that it was the type of beating that warranted the action.
You make thing a few boo boos are life threatening. I don't.
And given that it was Zimmerman that initiated the incident, I think that "self defense" here should require, at the very least, a reasonable fear that death was imminent.
GZ and his defense team DID establish that he got the kind of beating that warrants raising the claim of justification. NOW it is up to the STATE to DISPROVE it.
It is not the degree of injury suffered that justifies the action.
It is the kind of injury one reasonably feels, under the circumstances, that he is confronted with.
And no. I don't think a few boo boos are life threatening. But I DO think that if you have a guy on top of you pounding your noggin onto the pavement after you have had your nose broken by that guy, you MIGHT very well think that it is going to END badly for you. REAL badly. You might think you are about to have your skull busted or that you are about to die. (I also don't think a broken nose is anywhere near akin to a mere boo boo.)
YOU seem to think that such a thought process is unreasonable unless the injuries are already severe. I think you are simply and totally wrong on that point.
I agree with you that he may have felt threatened. But he started it. He caused it. If I am walking along at night, minding my own business, and some weirdo starts following me, and we run into each other and I ask "Why are you following me?" and he reaches for his gun so I punch him and knock him down and try to disable him from pulling that gun...I AM THE ONE DEFENDING MYSELF!!!!
Zimmerman started it, therefore he needs to be held accountable. He wasn't just innocently walking along and Martin attacked him. He was stalking Martin, for crying out loud.
The only problem with that..is that you have to establish that it was the type of beating that warranted the action.
You make thing a few boo boos are life threatening. I don't.
And given that it was Zimmerman that initiated the incident, I think that "self defense" here should require, at the very least, a reasonable fear that death was imminent.
GZ and his defense team DID establish that he got the kind of beating that warrants raising the claim of justification. NOW it is up to the STATE to DISPROVE it.
It is not the degree of injury suffered that justifies the action.
It is the kind of injury one reasonably feels, under the circumstances, that he is confronted with.
And no. I don't think a few boo boos are life threatening. But I DO think that if you have a guy on top of you pounding your noggin onto the pavement after you have had your nose broken by that guy, you MIGHT very well think that it is going to END badly for you. REAL badly. You might think you are about to have your skull busted or that you are about to die. (I also don't think a broken nose is anywhere near akin to a mere boo boo.)
YOU seem to think that such a thought process is unreasonable unless the injuries are already severe. I think you are simply and totally wrong on that point.
I agree with you that he may have felt threatened. But he started it. He caused it. If I am walking along at night, minding my own business, and some weirdo starts following me, and we run into each other and I ask "Why are you following me?" and he reaches for his gun so I punch him and knock him down and try to disable him from pulling that gun...I AM THE ONE DEFENDING MYSELF!!!!
Zimmerman started it, therefore he needs to be held accountable. He wasn't just innocently walking along and Martin attacked him. He was stalking Martin, for crying out loud.
