The Post-Trump GOP

[Meathead]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

At the same time, they did do better than expected down ticket (or was it the Democrats doing worse than expected?), so that just muddies the waters even more. So what do the next few years look like for the GOP?

Never-Trump movement splinters as its villain heads for the exit

"Is there a market for an anti-Trump Republican Party now?” said one prominent member of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. “I would say no.”

www.politico.com

‘Everything’s great’: GOP ditches election post-mortems

Mitt Romney lost by 5 million votes in 2012 and sparked a 100-page RNC autopsy report. Donald Trump lost by 7 million and there isn’t a peep.

www.politico.com

Oh, for Trumpsters: Ignore all this, he won, "by a lot", they cheated, he'll stay in office, MAGA.

Trump is the GOP.

Then how do you explain the many who left because of Trump?

The "may who left" were in fact very few elite Bush loyalist. Far many more joined accounting for 75 million voters, and all of them legal.

 

[Toro]

Trump is the GOP.

Okay, so since he's The Greatest President Ever, what's next for the GOP?

He's right.

It's going to be at least another four years of whining, grievance, misinformation, lying and conspiracy theories.

Because that's what the GOP has become.

 

[MaryAnne11]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

Only 81 million cares what Mac thinks! He also laid out some of the problems Democrats have to work on if you had read his post instead of mindlessly insulting. I doubt you even bothered to read it.

Yes, Mac, there are many things Democrats need to work on down ticket but it is hard for reasonable people when you have 1/3 rd of the Country spouting mindless hate and rage. Trump brought out and encouraged the worst. It has always been there but is now in the open.

I have been on a lot of boards and am surprised how much the Mods allow here. Where are they?

See post 13, above. Ripping off the scab may be the only way to deal with this. The Lincoln Project types will lay low for a while, but they're not stopping. This will be tough as hell, though.

Hey, regarding the mods, I'm a big freedom of expression advocate. I'm fine with the Trumpsters jumping in like that. Shine the light on them. That's how Trump got voted out, let them self-identify for us.

Fine, but my reference was to the thread threatening violence that became worse as it went on. Insults of each other is the norm, violence threats are not.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is the GOP.

Okay, so since he's The Greatest President Ever, what's next for the GOP?

He's right.

It's going to be at least another four years of whining, grievance, misinformation, lying and conspiracy theories.

Because that's what the GOP has become.

View attachment 430161

Yeah, this won't happen quickly, and as good as ripping off the scab would be for everyone, I don't see the anti-Trumpsters having the leverage.

Stains take a while to clean. Fortunately, this one is only four years old.

 

[Mac1958]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

Only 81 million cares what Mac thinks! He also laid out some of the problems Democrats have to work on if you had read his post instead of mindlessly insulting. I doubt you even bothered to read it.

Yes, Mac, there are many things Democrats need to work on down ticket but it is hard for reasonable people when you have 1/3 rd of the Country spouting mindless hate and rage. Trump brought out and encouraged the worst. It has always been there but is now in the open.

I have been on a lot of boards and am surprised how much the Mods allow here. Where are they?

See post 13, above. Ripping off the scab may be the only way to deal with this. The Lincoln Project types will lay low for a while, but they're not stopping. This will be tough as hell, though.

Hey, regarding the mods, I'm a big freedom of expression advocate. I'm fine with the Trumpsters jumping in like that. Shine the light on them. That's how Trump got voted out, let them self-identify for us.

Fine, but my reference was to the thread threatening violence that became worse as it went on. Insults of each other is the norm, violence threats are not.

Yeah, I had one of them demanding my address yesterday, threatening murder.

I like to think this place provides a catharsis for people like that. Get it all out online, take a nap

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, this won't happen quickly, and as good as ripping off the scab would be for everyone, I don't see the anti-Trumpsters having the leverage.

Stains take a while to clean. Fortunately, this one is only four years old.

Wrong again.

Trump is the same White Grievance shit the GOP has been playing since Tricky Dick. The kind you are normally fine with.

His version is just louder and more vulgar.

It won't go away with him.

 

[Bernhard]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Right now, 95% of the energy in the party is 100% with Trump. The anti-Trumpsters have their work cut out for them.

It was said earlier here that the smartest thing they can do is bring him down no matter what the short term damage is, and that may be true. Rip off the scab.

No doubt they're thinking about it, and no doubt they're trying to figure out how. It won't be easy, but there's no way of knowing how much anti-Trump sentiment exists under the surface.

I just wonder if dropping Trump is enough. All the problems that allowed Trump to do what he did are still in place:

We have a broken media landscape where people get confronted with massive amounts of fake news online, and even the "traditional media", the tv networks, are totally divided along partisan lines and don't hide their bias anymore. It's next to impossible these days to watch or read news these days and to know which of it is true and which isn't ... many stories are totally made up, and even those which are true are often covered in massive bias.

Too many people can't tell fake news from serious information, and too many people give a damn about good journalism. Winning has become more important than facts and truth -- and when it helps you winning, a lie is fair game for too many.

And then ... there are many, many people who have been let down by both parties in the past decades. People who lost their jobs or were screwed over by both Democrats and Republicans just acting in the interest of those who've made it. Many of them supported or still support Trump, because he at least pretended he cared for them.

There was a time when the Democrats told the losers of the rat race that they deserve a dignified life, a share of the cake, too ... now they've abandoned them, they say "as long as it's not a bias regarding race or gender that keep your efforts from being recognized, screw yourself if you don't make it".

Imo, it's not just Trump who is the problem ... the Dems are broken, too.

 

[MaryAnne11]

Then how do you explain the many who left because of Trump?

Did they? Trump got more votes than anyone the GOP has ever put up before, and that's even with Covid and the recession.

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

 

[Toro]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Word

I agreed with about 80% of Orange Jesus's policies

But the guy has no business being near the WH. He's a lying narcissistic whiner who puts himself above the country and would sell his worshippers down the river in a heartbeat. How he has behaved after the election will mean he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history as he has tried to overturn an election, attacked our institutions, and tried to deny the sovereign will of the people. He's a tin-pot dictator wannabe from one of these shithole countries he denigrates.

 

[MaryAnne11]

Mac, no one cares what you think.

Only 81 million cares what Mac thinks! He also laid out some of the problems Democrats have to work on if you had read his post instead of mindlessly insulting. I doubt you even bothered to read it.

Yes, Mac, there are many things Democrats need to work on down ticket but it is hard for reasonable people when you have 1/3 rd of the Country spouting mindless hate and rage. Trump brought out and encouraged the worst. It has always been there but is now in the open.

I have been on a lot of boards and am surprised how much the Mods allow here. Where are they?

See post 13, above. Ripping off the scab may be the only way to deal with this. The Lincoln Project types will lay low for a while, but they're not stopping. This will be tough as hell, though.

Hey, regarding the mods, I'm a big freedom of expression advocate. I'm fine with the Trumpsters jumping in like that. Shine the light on them. That's how Trump got voted out, let them self-identify for us.

Fine, but my reference was to the thread threatening violence that became worse as it went on. Insults of each other is the norm, violence threats are not.

Yeah, I had one of them demanding my address yesterday, threatening murder.

I like to think this place provides a catharsis for people like that. Get it all out online, take a nap

I can sure see that!

 

[occupied]

Trump is bad for business and he will have to be destroyed no matter what this does to the republican party in the short term.

That's probably true, it's probably the smart thing to do, and the Lincoln Project types probably know it.

There is going to be another fake populist along any time now while enough dirt will emerge on Trump to finally bury him. The Trumpbots love to attack but they have been having too play defense way too much. A new leader without all the baggage is what they crave right now.

 

[Mac1958]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Right now, 95% of the energy in the party is 100% with Trump. The anti-Trumpsters have their work cut out for them.

It was said earlier here that the smartest thing they can do is bring him down no matter what the short term damage is, and that may be true. Rip off the scab.

No doubt they're thinking about it, and no doubt they're trying to figure out how. It won't be easy, but there's no way of knowing how much anti-Trump sentiment exists under the surface.

I just wonder if dropping Trump is enough. All the problems that allowed Trump to do what he did are still in place:

We have a broken media landscape where people get confronted with massive amounts of fake news online, and even the "traditional media", the tv networks, are totally divided along partisan lines and don't hide their bias anymore. It's next to impossible these days to watch or read news these days and to know which of it is true and which isn't ... many stories are totally made up, and even those which are true are often covered in massive bias.

Too many people can't tell fake news from serious information, and too many people give a damn about good journalism. Winning has become more important than facts and truth -- and when it helps you winning, a lie is fair game for too many.

And then ... there are many, many people who have been let down by both parties in the past decades. People who lost their jobs or were screwed over by both Democrats and Republicans just acting in the interest of those who've made it. Many of them supported or still support Trump, because he at least pretended he cared for them.

There was a time when the Democrats told the losers of the rat race that they deserve a dignified life, a share of the cake, too ... now they've abandoned them, they say "as long as it's not a bias regarding race or gender that keep your efforts from being recognized, screw yourself if you don't make it".

Imo, it's not just Trump who is the problem ... the Dems are broken, too.

Absolutely. It looks like I have a kindred spirit here. The Dems refused to look at the reasons Trump won in the first place, and they're the same reasons they underperformed in 2020.

And agreed, getting rid of Trump won't be enough. The frustrations and paranoia and anger that allowed him in the door will still be there, and now they have a martyr on top of that.

This is a freakin' mess, and it won't clean up quickly.

 

[Toro]

Did they? Trump got more votes than anyone the GOP has ever put up before, and that's even with Covid and the recession.

In AZ GA and WI, Republican Congressional candidates received not only more votes than Trump, but more than Trump's margin of defeat.

Those were Republicans either not voting or voting for Biden. Had those Never Trumpers voted for Trump, Trump would have won.

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is bad for business and he will have to be destroyed no matter what this does to the republican party in the short term.

That's probably true, it's probably the smart thing to do, and the Lincoln Project types probably know it.

There is going to be another fake populist along any time now while enough dirt will emerge on Trump to finally bury him. The Trumpbots love to attack but they have been having too play defense way too much. A new leader without all the baggage is what they crave right now.

I don't know if you saw it, but there was a pretty chilling recent piece about how the NEXT con man will be better, smarter, more articulate and better-behaved than Trump, and THAT'S the one we need to worry about.

Holy crap.

 

[Toro]

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

This election turned in the suburbs as educated people - mostly women - could not have him as President again.

The disgust with this man was so high, people came out in record numbers.

The Trump worshippers completely fail to understand this because they live in an echo chamber and media bubble telling them what they want to hear, whether it's true or not.

 

[Care4all]

Then how do you explain the many who left because of Trump?

Did they? Trump got more votes than anyone the GOP has ever put up before, and that's even with Covid and the recession.

They likely cheated, and that's why Trump is accusing dems of doing it???

 

[sparky]

Trump is bad for business and he will have to be destroyed no matter what this does to the republican party in the short term.

That's probably true, it's probably the smart thing to do, and the Lincoln Project types probably know it.

There is going to be another fake populist along any time now while enough dirt will emerge on Trump to finally bury him. The Trumpbots love to attack but they have been having too play defense way too much. A new leader without all the baggage is what they crave right now.

I don't know if you saw it, but there was a pretty chilling recent piece about how the NEXT con man will be better, smarter, more articulate and better-behaved than Trump, and THAT'S the one we need to worry about.

Holy crap.

well one does not do well in a corrupt collusive political system, unless one learns to 'con' Mac

~S~

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

At the same time, they did do better than expected down ticket (or was it the Democrats doing worse than expected?), so that just muddies the waters even more. So what do the next few years look like for the GOP?

Never-Trump movement splinters as its villain heads for the exit

"Is there a market for an anti-Trump Republican Party now?” said one prominent member of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. “I would say no.”

www.politico.com

‘Everything’s great’: GOP ditches election post-mortems

Mitt Romney lost by 5 million votes in 2012 and sparked a 100-page RNC autopsy report. Donald Trump lost by 7 million and there isn’t a peep.

www.politico.com

Oh, for Trumpsters: Ignore all this, he won, "by a lot", they cheated, he'll stay in office, MAGA.

The Lincoln Project is less than a Rounding Error

 

[MaryAnne11]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

Word

I agreed with about 80% of Orange Jesus's policies

But the guy has no business being near the WH. He's a lying narcissistic whiner who puts himself above the country and would sell his worshippers down the river in a heartbeat. How he has behaved after the election will mean he will go down as one of the worst Presidents in history as he has tried to overturn an election, attacked our institutions, and tried to deny the sovereign will of the people. He's a tin-pot dictator wannabe from one of these shithole countries he denigrates.

Actually Trump could have solved many of the grievances working people had if he had tried..

Instead he went into greed and revenge mode. I actually understand why the worker feels the way they do. We can only hope Biden will solve some of the worker problems. I think a good share of the Senate understands, too. Too much has been neglected under iron hand Mitch. People do not care about Judges. They want good paying jobs, decent Health care.

Can the Government we have work on these things?

 

[Mac1958]

Biden got 7 million more. This was an unusual election. Pandemic and all I have never seen so much determination to vote. And I worked the polls when Obama won both times.

This election turned in the suburbs as educated people - mostly women - could not have him as President again.

The disgust with this man was so high, people came out in record numbers.

The Trump worshippers completely fail to understand this because they live in an echo chamber and media bubble telling them what they want to hear, whether it's true or not.

There's no way to know, but I sure wish I (and the Lincoln Project) had a handle on how many people only voted for Trump because of the (R), and who would quickly get on board a train headed in another direction.