The quran IS the bible.

[Truthmatters]

Not being able to force your religion on everyone is not being persecuted.

You want to know religious persecution just try telling people you dont believe in God at the next gathering of people you are in.

You are part of the majority.

Your limmitations are simply you cant put your religion on display in a government area.

The only reason this for this is we would have to let EVERY religion have the same amount of display area.

How do you do this when there are an endless amount of beliefs?

The best way is to say well not here.

You can deck out your church, your house, your store ,your car ,your kids,your dog ,your cat, your clothes, you cant display whatever religion you have on all YOUR stuff.
You just cant decorate the things we all own together like the government stuff.

You seem to think this makes you persecuted?

What about me?

I cant get the court house decorated with my "I dont believe in God" decorations either.

 

[Shogun]

did you even ask ME about what jihad meant or are you just tossing something out hoping that it will stick?

funny how everyone claims to have native blood.. just like everyone claims to be related to jesse james and a signer of the Decleration of Independance. Do you, for a second, think that your perspective matches someone living on a diminishing reservation? I kinda doubt it.



"Not all of the members of the signers of the Declaration of Independence believed in the Bible or what it stood for."

thats a long way from

"My country was founded by God"


The true irony of your opinion is that christians and muslim have MORE in common than they have in difference. You worship a varied concept of the SAME god. THAT is the hilarious punchline.

"you shouldnt have to accept..."?

Until you can show me where your particular dogma flavor is favored in the Constitution you can have your opinion and hateful attitude while muslim will still embed themselves in the AMERICAN culture. Until you can edit that pesky First amendment you wont have that monopoly on America that you want so bad. Again, go get yourself a muslim friend and pray that their majority dont treat youhow you are wanting to treat them now. If you dont like the mosque then dont go to it just like I dont go to church while not giving a rats ass if my neighbor does. I dont particularly care for sunday morning church bells but, much like your complaint about muslim traditions, my opinion - in light of the first amendment - means jack shit.

 

[mattskramer]

no where you win-----> but what is your point? I mean let'm in and control us all I say any and everyone. Religious freedom nothing like the sound of a mosque firing up the loud speaker at 0430 to get the day started, oh and don't forget your little haji rug.
My point is religious freedom is one thing, religious biasness is not. And right now the things that made our country great and free is being turned inside out, but hey if it is good for europe then it is good for us right? Eurabria, Amerabria is next.

I recall the clanging of the “Christian” church’s bells that went off, a few miles from where I lived, every Sunday. They were certainly an annoyance to one who did not care to go to church.

It is almost as if the Muslims are saying that it is now there turn to be the dominant and loud force in America. Yet, I do not see that happening. Christianity is still louder as far as I can tell.

 

[Vintij]

Christianity will always be the dominant religion but you have to understand that islam is a young religion. They do the same thing that all young religions have done, demand respect....and ofcourse, feel offended by everything and everyone.

We dont owe muslims anything, neither does europe, yet they go around marching against zionism as if we "zionic" nations have caused their suffering over the last century. Its our 1st amendment right that even allowes them to march against us in the first place, and they get offended when we ask women why they wear masks? A sign of opression brought up by the taliban and implanted into a fake bible?

Americans can read too, and nowhere in the quran does it say to cover womens faces....do not allow them to work....and stone them to death if they do otherwise.

Muslims choose religion over freedom, its not anyones fault.

The great thing about america, weather you like to admit it or not. Is that freedom is by far the most important thing to americans, and then comes religion. That is the beauty of a secular government because freedom is the law of the land, while religion is the law of the individual. Thats what seperates us from the islamic nations. Anyone who says non-secular government is the best way to run a country, should move to Iran.

Freedom will always be more important to me, than religion.

 

[Shogun]

try giving that same lecture to an Amish woman who CHOOSES her religion over your lifestyle.


...and a pretty good arguement can be made, whether anyone wants to acknowldge as much, about the impact of zionists on muslims in the mid east.

for christs fucking sake.. the thirteen colonies rebelled because of taxation from britain.. imagine how they would have reacted to CHINA coming along and claiming Massechessets.


do you think that muslims are impervious to varied dogmatic opinion and interpretation? Have christians avoided a vast range of interpretations of the bible?


If our government puts christians in refugee camps do you think that christians would shed their religion or BELIEVE THAT THE SECOND COMING IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER?

freedom is more important than religion?

tell it to the gays who deal with sexual discrimination because sexual orientation is not protected by anti-discrimination laws.


and I can remind you about who is calling for a non-secular government come the 08 presidential election..

 

[Gunny]

We are a country of all religions and beliefs.

Anyone who doesnt honor that is not being very American.

Anyone who doesn't honor that is expressing their VERY-American right to freedom of expression.

 

[Bullypulpit]

the old testement is the covenant that god had with the jews, his chosen people.
The new testement is the covenant that god has with the gentiles via the blood sacrifice of jesus.

Indeed, muslims, jews and christians are abrahamic and, even if they wont admit it, follow variations of the same traditions involving the same god. In fact, muslims and christians AGREE about jesus... even if the christians feel about Mohammed about the same way the pharisees thought about jesus...

Which is why religious doctrine should be understood as the allegory it is, rather than the literal truth, which it isn't.

 

[90K]

did you even ask ME about what jihad meant or are you just tossing something out hoping that it will stick?

funny how everyone claims to have native blood.. just like everyone claims to be related to jesse james and a signer of the Decleration of Independance. Do you, for a second, think that your perspective matches someone living on a diminishing reservation? I kinda doubt it.



"Not all of the members of the signers of the Declaration of Independence believed in the Bible or what it stood for."

thats a long way from

"My country was founded by God"


The true irony of your opinion is that christians and muslim have MORE in common than they have in difference. You worship a varied concept of the SAME god. THAT is the hilarious punchline.

"you shouldnt have to accept..."?

Until you can show me where your particular dogma flavor is favored in the Constitution you can have your opinion and hateful attitude while muslim will still embed themselves in the AMERICAN culture. Until you can edit that pesky First amendment you wont have that monopoly on America that you want so bad. Again, go get yourself a muslim friend and pray that their majority dont treat youhow you are wanting to treat them now. If you dont like the mosque then dont go to it just like I dont go to church while not giving a rats ass if my neighbor does. I dont particularly care for sunday morning church bells but, much like your complaint about muslim traditions, my opinion - in light of the first amendment - means jack shit.

read the post! you only answered in what fit your agenda. I have very little tolreance for this subject, that is difference than hatred. it is people like you who spout off that if we have freedoms of whatever, nobody and I mean nobody can tell us how and when we can/could or should use it. the issue is being forced to except a religious views that will harm our way of life, not today, but in 10 years from now. And because of religious freedoms we will have to except it. You can believe what you want, and sing we are the world. But it is ideals such as yours that will be the defeat of our nation when it comes to this subject. I have no more to say on this, I'm finished

 

[mattskramer]

read the post! you only answered in what fit your agenda. I have very little tolreance for this subject, that is difference than hatred. it is people like you who spout off that if we have freedoms of whatever, nobody and I mean nobody can tell us how and when we can/could or should use it. the issue is being forced to except a religious views that will harm our way of life, not today, but in 10 years from now. And because of religious freedoms we will have to except it. You can believe what you want, and sing we are the world. But it is ideals such as yours that will be the defeat of our nation when it comes to this subject. I have no more to say on this, I'm finished

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. How paranoid and biased can you be? For decades, atheists and people of unpopular religions put up with Christianity. They were captive students in public school while they listened to Christian prayers. They are expected to say the “Pledge of Allegiance” and include the phrase “under God”. They held coins that had said “In God We Trust” while they might not believe in God. They hear church bells chime from miles away. On Sundays, they turn the television on and see Christian church services on practically every other channel.

Now when some organizations are making arrangements to better accommodate Muslims (A mosque chimes its bells. A supermarket employee does not have to handle pork. A cab driver does not have to drive a man with a dog or a liquor bottom. Oh my God! How can this be!), people think that the world is coming to an end. Good grief. This narrow-minded, egocentric paranoia is laughable. Lighten up.

By the way, you do not have to accept the views of Islam any more than I have to accept the views of Christianity.

 

[Vintij]

The sky is falling. The sky is falling. How paranoid and biased can you be? For decades, atheists and people of unpopular religions put up with Christianity. They were captive students in public school while they listened to Christian prayers. They are expected to say the “Pledge of Allegiance” and include the phrase “under God”. They held coins that had said “In God We Trust” while they might not believe in God. They hear church bells chime from miles away. On Sundays, they turn the television on and see Christian church services on practically every other channel.

Now when some organizations are making arrangements to better accommodate Muslims (A mosque chimes its bells. A supermarket employee does not have to handle pork. A cab driver does not have to drive a man with a dog or a liquor bottom. Oh my God! How can this be!), people think that the world is coming to an end. Good grief. This narrow-minded, egocentric paranoia is laughable. Lighten up.

By the way, you do not have to accept the views of Islam any more than I have to accept the views of Christianity.

Ofcourse, if a religious freak is elected president and installs creationism into our public education system. Then we Do have to accept the views of christianity. Which is growing at an alarming rate. Islam is also growing but I doubt a muslim will ever be president of the united states. Other than that, I dont think we should be too concerned with religious civilians.

I just think the bible, should stay OUT of government policy. Dont you?

I mean, this is coming from someone who has read the new and old testamen. Neither have any value in policy.

 

[mattskramer]

Ofcourse, if a religious freak is elected president and installs creationism into our public education system. Then we Do have to accept the views of christianity.

I disagree. I can disagree with a president of any religion. I can disagree with a public school teacher who teaches me - or my child(ren), if I hand (child(ren) – creationism.

I remember a teacher said that Columbus discovered the new world. I said that I wish that I could walk down the street and discover a new house (preferably one with larger rooms).

If a teacher is unwilling to discuss and debate topics, and basically tells you that it is “his way or the highway”, you can still mouth off what he wants you to mouth off, while still believing differently.

Basically, you do not have to believe what you are told and you do not even have to believe what you are expected to say. I said the “Pledge of Allegiance” while I did not believe in every word of the pledge.

Anyway, this would be a moot point if we had private education and school choice.

I just think the bible, should stay OUT of government policy. Don’t you?

I mean, this is coming from someone who has read the new and old testament. Neither have any value in policy.

People say that you can’t legislate morality. That very statement is a moral statement. Policy is based on what people think should or should not be allowed. Those decisions can be based on various things (philosophical political reasoning (Libertarian, Marxist, etc.)) interpretation of a translation of a religious teaching from a person or book (Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Veda, etc), tradition, etc. or a combination of the above. Each person has his preferences. I don’t think that policy should be exclusively based on the Bible. While I think that prohibiting murder would be good, there are some statements in the bible that I simply would not like to be made into law. I guess that I lean to social libertarianism with a touch of economic conservativism.

 

[Truthmatters]

Anyone who doesn't honor that is expressing their VERY-American right to freedom of expression.

Yeap it is perfectly legal in America to be Anti American but it is still being anti American.

 

[Vintij]

I disagree. I can disagree with a president of any religion. I can disagree with a public school teacher who teaches me - or my child(ren), if I hand (child(ren) – creationism.

I remember a teacher said that Columbus discovered the new world. I said that I wish that I could walk down the street and discover a new house (preferably one with larger rooms).

If a teacher is unwilling to discuss and debate topics, and basically tells you that it is “his way or the highway”, you can still mouth off what he wants you to mouth off, while still believing differently.

Basically, you do not have to believe what you are told and you do not even have to believe what you are expected to say. I said the “Pledge of Allegiance” while I did not believe in every word of the pledge.

Anyway, this would be a moot point if we had private education and school choice.



People say that you can’t legislate morality. That very statement is a moral statement. Policy is based on what people think should or should not be allowed. Those decisions can be based on various things (philosophical political reasoning (Libertarian, Marxist, etc.)) interpretation of a translation of a religious teaching from a person or book (Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Veda, etc), tradition, etc. or a combination of the above. Each person has his preferences. I don’t think that policy should be exclusively based on the Bible. While I think that prohibiting murder would be good, there are some statements in the bible that I simply would not like to be made into law. I guess that I lean to social libertarianism with a touch of economic conservativism.

I agree with you in that morality can be legislated on important issues such as murder, and rape...etc....because there are people who dont know right from wrong that must enter into the justice system. Though I do not believe that moral judgement on a federal scale will always be fair to an entire nation because if your moral judement stems from one book (the bible) well that cancel's out the millions of americans who are not religious and believe for instance that stem cell research is worth funding, and that gays have a right to wed, and women have a right to choose.

Believe me, alot of the new testamen is great. Jesus was a philosophical man far beyond his time. But even the new testamen has things in it that are interpreted in thousands of different ways depending on where you are from.

What bugs me, is that the old testamen was even written. For instance, Mike Huckabee is spouting out about creationism at every debate, how god made the universe in seven days or whatever. It bugs me that he takes that creation idea from the "old testamen". The same old testamen that allowed you to stone your children to death, the same old testamen that forces you to marry the one who raped you, the same old testamen that says god told certain people to murder thieves.

I mean, I dont get the double standard. If the creationism is ok with Mike Huckabee, what else in the old testamen is ok with him? And what is he going to enforce if he becomes president? The man has never read a science book in his life.

I dont know if you agree with me on this but, moral issues on a large scale (life and death) should be laced with policy. Everything else, whould be kept seperate and within an individual household. Science books are far more rewarding, and I believe the age of the ignorant religious President is over. I want a smart president for once. One who knows a little about science

 

[Diuretic]

The Old Testament is a construction from thousands of years ago. Look at the state of human knowledge when it was compiled. Now look at the state of human knowledge. How anyone can treat the Old Testament literally is beyond me.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

The Old Testament is a construction from thousands of years ago. Look at the state of human knowledge when it was compiled. Now look at the state of human knowledge. How anyone can treat the Old Testament literally is beyond me.

The Old Testament is a construction from thousands of years ago

...that “God” (i.e. an amalgam of the Muslim, Mormon, Jewish, Christian, Heaven's Gaters and the Appalachian Rattler Rassler’s imaginary playmates) regretted having written.

Word has it that he was wasted on Arak when he dictated it to some passing Bedouin goat herders and serpent-oil salesmen.

Therefore He dispatched His “Messiah,” (Jewish for “Mercury&#8221 Jesus, down to get some turncoat Kikes to pen (evidently the whole Christ family can’t write! ) a politically correct version of the VileBull.

He did this so as embarrassed Christians could use it to redirect iconoclastic naysayers, like me, away from what an utter arsehole their God (and hence THEM!) really is and onto their new "decent" mincing mewling pussy-phobic pantywaist of a "God" who wouldn't say "shit" for two Shillings!

Since His first ghost-written autobiography of blood n’ gore, God Snr's gullible believers had become far more sophisticated and would no longer tolerate his psychotic temper tantrums and His homicidal hangovers.

Consequently they were deserting Him in their droves for more psychologically stable, more biddable Gods.

Unfortunately He had inextricably written “The Messiah” into the OT, so He couldn’t withdraw it from print when the NT became a best seller among The New Jews.

Today He wishes to fuck He had never written the fucking thing!

Anyway, that’s how I see it.

Some say this is bullshit, that He sent Himself, Himself, Himself as a simulated sacrifice to be pseudo executed so He could appease His own psychotic ego and thus have a pretext to forgive man - for Him making a dead set \!/ out of Himself and murdering the entire world for no justifiable reason, mind you! - except for eight obsequiously “decent” Semitic suckholes.

Others say He had to have an excuse for forgiving Eve and billions of her great grandkids for her unpardonable sin of daring to try and educate herself.

Still others say He did it so humans didn’t have to sacrifice poor little Sheepies and Turtle-doves (most unpopular with ancient ****'s wives) anymore.

I confess I really don’t know. I leave such complicated questions to those who know about such things.

Like blokes who believe in Beeelzebub-proof BVD’s; crazies who worship schizophrenic God’s with multiple and conflicting personas, and/or Christo-cannibals who actually eat their God and drink His blood, sometimes several times a week!

SIGH!...I guess I’ll never get to be normal like “nice” people…

 

[Eightball]

I wouldnt go to a doctor who only used methods thousands of years old.

Why would I limmit my philosophy in the same way?

Have to say here Truthmatters, that common sense is expressed in many old proverbs-type manuscripts and of course in the O.T. of the bible where King Solomon authored a book called Proverbs.

In fact in most cases I see direct common sense, and wisdom in the O.T. proverbs that are indeed thousands of years old. They are still applicable.

Obviously there are proverbs that have a strong cultural blend or influence in their content, and might not seem easily identifiable as helpful to modern day application for various human/social situations. Deeper scrutiny of those proverbs will probably prove otherwise.

One example, not of the Proverbs was when the Pharisees assailed Jesus and his disciples for picking and eating heads of grain in a field for food, on the sabath. They accused the Lord and his followers of breaking the Sabath commandment of "no work", as God had rested on the Sabath, naturally or legally us humans should cease from all work related activities. Jesus came up with a pretty good retort. He asked them if anyone of them had one of their donkeys fall into a ditch and get stuck there on the Sabath, would they leave their donkey in the ditch throughout the Sabath? Well, He silenced them with that reply. Eating is a necessity of human life, and resting on the Sabath doesn't mean starving yourself in order to be a good faithful servant of God.

I think God must have just rolled His eyes at these alleged priests and scribes that had turned the 10 commandments into thousands of sub-commandments of conduct in order to "please" God. All along God was please with the man or woman of faith, not the one who did a penance type of work to work off guilt. This totally bypasses the reason for Christs advent, death, and ressurrection.

The Pharisees followed the letter of the scripture, but didn't understand the Spirit of the scripture. As Jesus referred to them as, "White Washed Tombs". They looked clean and sanitary, but they were filled with wisdom that led to death and a dead end when in came to rapport with their Maker. God is not a God of do's and don'ts. Most of the world lives that way. The gooder I act, the happier God will be with me........."Not!". You can't make a pile of garbage into a Lilly. You can spray Lysol or perfume on it, and fool a few people for awhile, but sooner or later the inner part of the garbage pile will seep out and we will all know it's garbage by nature. It's God that puts man/woman in good standing, and it's by God's work, not man's heroics, and goodie two shoes deeds. God must transform man from the inside out. A new creature must arise from the ashes of incinerated garbage.

This is why Chrisitians have not problem in applying biblical truths to their everyday life. The Sabath rest in something that should be 7 days week. In other words, God did the work through His son Jesus. We no longer must strive to impress or make God happy with us. Jesus bridged that gap of estrangement between us and God through his sinless life. Now the Christians life is one of "rest" in God's security, not by works or penance, but by appropriating by faith into one's life Christs work on our behalf.

So what happened 2,000 years ago, has a great deal of application for millions of citizens of this world.

Although there is no mention of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc.. in the bible, it offers common sense that never become antiquated.

 

[Vintij]

Have to say here Truthmatters, that common sense is expressed in many old proverbs-type manuscripts and of course in the O.T. of the bible where King Solomon authored a book called Proverbs.

In fact in most cases I see direct common sense, and wisdom in the O.T. proverbs that are indeed thousands of years old. They are still applicable.

Obviously there are proverbs that have a strong cultural blend or influence in their content, and might not seem easily identifiable as helpful to modern day application for various human/social situations. Deeper scrutiny of those proverbs will probably prove otherwise.

One example, not of the Proverbs was when the Pharisees assailed Jesus and his disciples for picking and eating heads of grain in a field for food, on the sabath. They accused the Lord and his followers of breaking the Sabath commandment of "no work", as God had rested on the Sabath, naturally or legally us humans should cease from all work related activities. Jesus came up with a pretty good retort. He asked them if anyone of them had one of their donkeys fall into a ditch and get stuck there on the Sabath, would they leave their donkey in the ditch throughout the Sabath? Well, He silenced them with that reply. Eating is a necessity of human life, and resting on the Sabath doesn't mean starving yourself in order to be a good faithful servant of God.

I think God must have just rolled His eyes at these alleged priests and scribes that had turned the 10 commandments into thousands of sub-commandments of conduct in order to "please" God. All along God was please with the man or woman of faith, not the one who did a penance type of work to work off guilt. This totally bypasses the reason for Christs advent, death, and ressurrection.

The Pharisees followed the letter of the scripture, but didn't understand the Spirit of the scripture. As Jesus referred to them as, "White Washed Tombs". They looked clean and sanitary, but they were filled with wisdom that led to death and a dead end when in came to rapport with their Maker. God is not a God of do's and don'ts. Most of the world lives that way. The gooder I act, the happier God will be with me........."Not!". You can't make a pile of garbage into a Lilly. You can spray Lysol or perfume on it, and fool a few people for awhile, but sooner or later the inner part of the garbage pile will seep out and we will all know it's garbage by nature. It's God that puts man/woman in good standing, and it's by God's work, not man's heroics, and goodie two shoes deeds. God must transform man from the inside out. A new creature must arise from the ashes of incinerated garbage.

This is why Chrisitians have not problem in applying biblical truths to their everyday life. The Sabath rest in something that should be 7 days week. In other words, God did the work through His son Jesus. We no longer must strive to impress or make God happy with us. Jesus bridged that gap of estrangement between us and God through his sinless life. Now the Christians life is one of "rest" in God's security, not by works or penance, but by appropriating by faith into one's life Christs work on our behalf.

So what happened 2,000 years ago, has a great deal of application for millions of citizens of this world.

Although there is no mention of computers, automobiles, airplanes, etc.. in the bible, it offers common sense that never become antiquated.

I dont think the Old Testamen offered very much common sense at all. Even the section entitled "the law" was barbaric for its time. Nothing was radical or cutting edge about it. The thing is, there was a new book. Written by men, about jesus. He was a cutting edge philosophical thinker and possibly the greatest one of all time.

Now adays, people twist his words into so many different things that they are not meant to be.

Thats not the point though. The point I am trying to get at is, it was MEN who wrote the bible, MEN who so narcisisstically decided that god was the image of a MAN. Men who decided to start the Christian Church seperate from the catholic church. Men conducted religious genocide in the name of their lord. Men who oppressed blacks and women because it was literally in the Old Testamen that slavery is OK apparently.

If the Apostles, who allegedly wrote "his word", were so wise and cutting edge, why was it so hard to write a book without slavery, without torture, without genocide, without racism, without biggotry toward gays?

If we cant take the old testamen seriously because its obscenely barbaric and non-beneficial to anyone. Why should we take the new testamen seriously just because it is less ridicules?

I just feel that MAN is very self absorbed in the species of MAN. To claim that god looks like a man, to claim that earth was the center of the universe, to claim that god actually spoke to any man....Why would an omnipotent being, really care about rhetorical and useless laws for humans when the universe is so obscenly large compared to our tiny solar system? And why was religion forced upon people for 2,000 years? The catholic church locked up one of the greatest astronomers of all time in Galilaeo, just because he believed the bible was wrong about the rotation of the sun around the earth.

It could be just me but, I feel that science has debunked religion in general, not god. Dont get me wrong, Im certain jesus did exist, and that god probably does exist. Not in any religion though, not a single one. I believe it must be a little more personal that that.

 

[Truthmatters]

Because medicine has gotten better.

Philosophy has gotten worse.

just keep repeting to yourself "thoughts are bad, thoughts are bad".

That is a great philosophy.(sarcasm off)

 

[Eightball]

I still remember this missionary that visited our church who had been living with Muslim tribes in Africa.

He said that the local muslims there had necklaces that had 100 beads. Each bead represented an attribute of God. The missionary was told that the 100th bead was a mystery attribute of Allah, and that only the camel knew what that attribute was.

When the missionary, had heard and made note of all 99 known attributes of Allah, by the local Muslims, he realized that the one attribute that the Muslims there had not listed in the 99. "God is love"?

Now think about the atrocities that happen all over the world in the name of Allah. Honor killings of family members that have sex or relationships out of wedlock or without permission or the heirarchy of the male over the female in the islamic family.

In many Islamic families, the Father and son's eat first, and wives and daughters eat later and possibly in another room.

There is something lacking here folks. It's "love". The biblical love that God emphaized the most was, the Agape love of commitment, or holding others higher than ourselves. It's a servant's heart.

It's Agape love that allowed Joseph in the bible to endure such rejection from his brothers and be sold into Egyptian slavery by them, yet saved his brother's and father's lives as he became second in command under Pharoah of Egypt.

Love, involved forgiveness, a broken heart, that no longer harbors revenge, hatred, but has given up it's agenda of self-centered pursuits, or the old "me first" attitude.

The desire to always be right and to impress others, goes in the garbage can.

Islam doesn't have room for this. It legalistically follows mandates that exact fear in it's adherrents if they don't conform. Their is no rest in Allah, as Allah is watching with a "belt strap" 24 hours a day.

Sadly, many Christians perceive the God of the bible similarly and legalistically strive their whole lives away trying to make God happy with them. All along, God has said over and over again in the bible, that Jesus bridged the relationship gap between man and God. Now rest in God's acceptance, and now go out and live-out a life that glorifies God's grace as it was extended to you, Oh Christian. Look past imperfection and look at the person. Look past the act and look at the person. We have all fallen short of God's glory. That's why god provisioned before the earth was created, a plan of salvation of his human race which He devotedly loved and loves now.

Islam cannot tolerate imperfection. You are ordered to pray so many times a day. Orders, orders, do this, do that, etc...........and Allah will be pleased. Where is the love, the understanding that we are mere weak vessels in need of mercy on a daily basis?

Must we humans live in constant penance, or whip our backside like the Reverend Dimsdale did in the Scarlet Letter? Does that make God please with us. The bible says that God is please with a broken or contrite heart. A heart filled with awe, love, devotion, thankfulness, and ever so appreciative of the unmertied mercy of God in lieu of our many sins and shortcomings.

 

[Vintij]

I still remember this missionary that visited our church who had been living with Muslim tribes in Africa.

He said that the local muslims there had necklaces that had 100 beads. Each bead represented an attribute of God. The missionary was told that the 100th bead was a mystery attribute of Allah, and that only the camel knew what that attribute was.

When the missionary, had heard and made note of all 99 known attributes of Allah, by the local Muslims, he realized that the one attribute that the Muslims there had not listed in the 99. "God is love"?

Now think about the atrocities that happen all over the world in the name of Allah. Honor killings of family members that have sex or relationships out of wedlock or without permission or the heirarchy of the male over the female in the islamic family.

In many Islamic families, the Father and son's eat first, and wives and daughters eat later and possibly in another room.

There is something lacking here folks. It's "love". The biblical love that God emphaized the most was, the Agape love of commitment, or holding others higher than ourselves. It's a servant's heart.

It's Agape love that allowed Joseph in the bible to endure such rejection from his brothers and be sold into Egyptian slavery by them, yet saved his brother's and father's lives as he became second in command under Pharoah of Egypt.

Love, involved forgiveness, a broken heart, that no longer harbors revenge, hatred, but has given up it's agenda of self-centered pursuits, or the old "me first" attitude.

The desire to always be right and to impress others, goes in the garbage can.

Islam doesn't have room for this. It legalistically follows mandates that exact fear in it's adherrents if they don't conform. Their is no rest in Allah, as Allah is watching with a "belt strap" 24 hours a day.

Sadly, many Christians perceive the God of the bible similarly and legalistically strive their whole lives away trying to make God happy with them. All along, God has said over and over again in the bible, that Jesus bridged the relationship gap between man and God. Now rest in God's acceptance, and now go out and live-out a life that glorifies God's grace as it was extended to you, Oh Christian. Look past imperfection and look at the person. Look past the act and look at the person. We have all fallen short of God's glory. That's why god provisioned before the earth was created, a plan of salvation of his human race which He devotedly loved and loves now.

Islam cannot tolerate imperfection. You are ordered to pray so many times a day. Orders, orders, do this, do that, etc...........and Allah will be pleased. Where is the love, the understanding that we are mere weak vessels in need of mercy on a daily basis?

Must we humans live in constant penance, or whip our backside like the Reverend Dimsdale did in the Scarlet Letter? Does that make God please with us. The bible says that God is please with a broken or contrite heart. A heart filled with awe, love, devotion, thankfulness, and ever so appreciative of the unmertied mercy of God in lieu of our many sins and shortcomings.

See this is my issue with religion. I dont see how god, omnipotent as he is. Would really give a crap how many times we pray, or how we pray, or how we dress, or how many scrafices we make or how scared we are. I think thats all rhetoric. I think god could care less about the broken record known as religion and its redundant teachings. I also agree with you that the teachings of jesus, was the real foundation of the christian religion before it was hijacked. The bible does say that the bridge was gapped and I dont understand why people do stupid things to try and please someone who is already content with the human race and can not be pleased by anything a human can possibly do. If everyone just pulled their heads out of thier theological asses, we would not be in an arms race 24 hours a day.