The real Jesus

[irosie91]

Does it really matter 'who'?
The lesson is in the words, and Jesus was an incredible Teacher.
For that, he deserves our reverence, but hardly more than, say, a Ghandi, or Dalai Lama.

Ghandi was a racist fraudster, killed by his own faction in India as they fought for power after the British granted them self-determination. they have since done better than most people have expected them to do on their own, but they remain an unstable flash-point for nuclear war and corruption.

Gandhi was not a fraudster. He was not PERFECT-------but not a fraudster. India is----VERY CORRUPT but no more so than the
surrounding countries

 

[The Irish Ram]

John 1:11
He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him

 

[Mousterian]

The history is very murky, the accounts were written generations after the events.
This is obvious in the inconsistencies in the 'Gospels', that were cherry-picked for inclusion in the
'Holy Bible', a totally man-made confection of dimly-remembered events embroidered with fiction to conform to the ancient prophecies.

 

[shimon]

There was a TV show called To Tell The Truth where contestants were grilled by a panel to ascertain or figure out who the quest was...The quest was required to tell the truth and after he or she was figured out they were revealed....Unfortunately the real Jesus cannot be revealed if he ever exsisted because the trail is either to cold or the ahem tall tales associated with him has covered whatever truthes however small wth so much malarky that it would be impossible to figure it out... Like Pinocchio whose nose kept growing with each lie he told so too has the ones who push these fables only their nose stretches into every corner of the world and keeps getter longer with each passing tall tale and nonsensical idea....

 

[HaShev]

That's why books were constantly burned, it exposed the tall tales by showing plagiarism, discrepancies, or later added forgeries.

 

[shimon]

The interesting thing is that a pope like John Paul 2 if you know what you are looking for hide the truth in plain site ... He was actually a walking billboard of interesting facts whether carrying that sickly Mithras Crucifix to wearing a sash across their waist that says tuus tutus which is a reference to the queen of heaven as depicted or covered up by the veneration of Mary... The words Tuus Tutus means Totally Yours meaning even if they acknowledge some connection to the created figure of a man they have named Jesus their true loyalty lies with the one they name Mary...The deeper one digs and the more layers one pulls off the more twisted it gets...One really cannot make these things up...Some who was the REAL Jesus no one will ever know unless all the layers are taken off and everyone finally sees that the emperor hasn’t got a leg or any clothing to stand on...

 

[hobelim]

The interesting thing is that a pope like John Paul 2 if you know what you are looking for hide the truth in plain site ... He was actually a walking billboard of interesting facts whether carrying that sickly Mithras Crucifix to wearing a sash across their waist that says tuus tutus which is a reference to the queen of heaven as depicted or covered up by the veneration of Mary... The words Tuus Tutus means Totally Yours meaning even if they acknowledge some connection to the created figure of a man they have named Jesus their true loyalty lies with the one they name Mary...The deeper one digs and the more layers one pulls off the more twisted it gets...One really cannot make these things up...Some who was the REAL Jesus no one will ever know unless all the layers are taken off and everyone finally sees that the emperor hasn’t got a leg or any clothing to stand on...

Yet you know there was a real Jesus who pissed off and embarrassed the religious and political establishment so deeply and they hated him so much that they made desecrating his teaching, celebrating his death, and defying his God their national religion, burying the truth under a mountain of blasphemy upon which the jabberwocky sits.

And it is through the power of death consequent to rejecting his teaching and defying the commands of God that they have deceived and subjugated every nation of the world.....

but the hour when darkness reigns is all but over.

The good news is that great tribulation that many Christians fear will be brought to an end before they even realize it began more than two thousand years ago. The dead know nothing, not even that they are dead.


Remember? The plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes, the sower of seed.

 

[shimon]

The interesting thing is that a pope like John Paul 2 if you know what you are looking for hide the truth in plain site ... He was actually a walking billboard of interesting facts whether carrying that sickly Mithras Crucifix to wearing a sash across their waist that says tuus tutus which is a reference to the queen of heaven as depicted or covered up by the veneration of Mary... The words Tuus Tutus means Totally Yours meaning even if they acknowledge some connection to the created figure of a man they have named Jesus their true loyalty lies with the one they name Mary...The deeper one digs and the more layers one pulls off the more twisted it gets...One really cannot make these things up...Some who was the REAL Jesus no one will ever know unless all the layers are taken off and everyone finally sees that the emperor hasn’t got a leg or any clothing to stand on...

Yet you know there was a real Jesus who pissed off and embarrassed the religious and political establishment so deeply and they hated him so much that they made desecrating his teaching, celebrating his death, and defying his God their national religion, burying the truth under a mountain of blasphemy upon which the jabberwocky sits.

And it is through the power of death consequent to rejecting his teaching and defying the commands of God that they have deceived and subjugated every nation of the world.....

but the hour when darkness reigns is all but over.

The good news is that great tribulation that many Christians fear will be brought to an end before they even realize it began more than two thousand years ago. The dead know nothing, not even that they are dead.


Remember? The plowman will overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes, the sower of seed.

It has been a while Hobe . I hope all is well with you are you still tending your garden and pulling out a weed or two to keep it healthy and productive...Actually regarding a real Jesus I find the evidence extremely shaky if downright non exsistant especially outside of the gospels even in the gospels themselves if one is to really study them and take them apart and analyze them... Now before you get all worked up and try to force the issue or bring your proofs I am stating that that is my opinion which I am entitled to... Just like everyone else is entitled to here as well.. We have actually debated these issues many times and in many places on these boards and others so none of this is new and people are smart enough and mature enough to figure things out for themselves given the facts...There were plenty of people who pissed off the religious and political establishments of the day just like they do today as well... We both know that giving them godlike powers is both nonsensical and rediculous... Yes there are metaphors and secret meanings in the scriptures I will not debate that with you... A code if you like easy to see once it is revealed but I do not attribute it to a Real Jesus... I will give you an example... Originally ( correct me if I am wrong) the Chinese were conquered by the mongels .. They had a great difficulty overcoming them and passing messages to each other some extremely bright individual figured out that coded messages could be passed to each other using fortune cookies... The mongels were none the wiser and the Chinese could communicate with each other freely using this tasty method to confound their enemies... The original concept has carried on till today even though the mongels are long gone and conquered... The mongels were conquered by absorbing them into the huge chinesepopulation as they took Chinese wives and their children became Chinese...Interestingly the same method has been working worldwide regarding Christianity and its absorbing Hebrew values and concepts..... A sort of osmosis if you like for any who have studied chemistry... Slowly over a long period of time Hebrew concepts and ideals have slowly but surely remoulded the world and the nations... Given that we are in the Information Age these ideas and concepts will spread faster and more freely and the authorities can do nothing outside of shutting down the internet to stopping it... I could say more but like I said it is up to each of us to learn for ourselves...

 

[Picaro]

The history is very murky, the accounts were written generations after the events.
This is obvious in the inconsistencies in the 'Gospels', that were cherry-picked for inclusion in the
'Holy Bible', a totally man-made confection of dimly-remembered events embroidered with fiction to conform to the ancient prophecies.

Actually they were being written down within a few years of the events themselves and while eyewitnesses were alive. No other ancient texts were written in the same time frame of the events they report on. The oral traditions were still very fresh and complete. This is why there are no anachronisms in the NT, and it clearly stays within the time if 0 A.D. and the fall of the Temple in 70 A.D., right down to the extant names, cultural and social conditions of the time, and current events, etc. Compare that to the oldest known Torah, which is only some 800 years old, unless they've found an older one recently I haven't heard about, and the Torah has been edited over centuries to boot by many writers, hence why I take these Chasidic cranks that post here as lying idiots and pay them no mind outside of mocking them when they attempt to lie about NT writings. And, I think it would be just weird if it weren't written down by men; an elephant, of a dolphin's writings would be hard to read, dude.

 

[hobelim]

.There were plenty of people who pissed off the religious and political establishments of the day just like they do today as well... We both know that giving them godlike powers is both nonsensical and rediculous... Yes there are metaphors and secret meanings in the scriptures I will not debate that with you... A code if you like easy to see once it is revealed but I do not attribute it to a Real Jesus...

Yes, its been a while but I see you still have your nose buried deep inside Hashevs butt. But don't worry, I won't make a big deal about it or debate you on the hidden significance of the command to refrain from the flesh of brown nosed dorks. wink.

Anyway, why would the Romans, as bad ass as they were, go through the unimaginable trouble to change traditions and the pantheon of gods throughout the entire empire and compel the entire population to practice a new religion dedicated to perverting the teachings of Jew and the image of his God? Why would they do that unless there was a deep seated hatred for a man that really existed? Why not start a religion dedicated to Giuseppe? Why a Jew that never existed?

Makes no sense unless he was a real historical figure that has a real impact on their culture for good or bad.

..Interestingly the same method has been working worldwide regarding Christianity and its absorbing Hebrew values and concepts..... A sort of osmosis if you like for any who have studied chemistry... Slowly over a long period of time Hebrew concepts and ideals have slowly but surely remoulded the world and the nations...

Exactly.

Jesus said "this generation" (the only branch of Judaism that the Romans permitted to continue) would live to see everything that Jesus predicted come true and would persist until his return..

After all, It is written that he would return in the same way they saw him go, arguing with you guys about the righteous application of the law.

One thing is for sure. He must have been one extremely stubborn son of a bitch...

 

[irosie91]

.There were plenty of people who pissed off the religious and political establishments of the day just like they do today as well... We both know that giving them godlike powers is both nonsensical and rediculous... Yes there are metaphors and secret meanings in the scriptures I will not debate that with you... A code if you like easy to see once it is revealed but I do not attribute it to a Real Jesus...

Yes, its been a while but I see you still have your nose buried deep inside Hashevs butt. But don't worry, I won't make a big deal about it or debate you on the hidden significance of the command to refrain from the flesh of brown nosed dorks.

Anyway, why would the Romans, as bad ass as they were, go through the unimaginable trouble to change traditions and the pantheon of gods throughout the entire empire and compel the entire population to practice a new religion dedicated to perverting the teachings of Jew and the image of his God? Why would they do that unless there was a deep seated hatred for a man that really existed? Why not start a religion dedicated to Giuseppe? Why a Jew that never existed?

Makes no sense unless he was a real historical figure that has a real impact on their culture for good or bad.

..Interestingly the same method has been working worldwide regarding Christianity and its absorbing Hebrew values and concepts..... A sort of osmosis if you like for any who have studied chemistry... Slowly over a long period of time Hebrew concepts and ideals have slowly but surely remoulded the world and the nations...

Exactly.

Jesus said "this generation" (the only branch of Judaism that the Romans permitted to continue) would live to see everything that Jesus predicted come true and would persist until his return..

it wasn't "the romans" hobie. It was CONSTANTINE------well ---actually
his mother, who was ATTRACTED to the sect of followers of the thing
they called "JESUS" Not all that unusual ------even today there are
fervent followers of new jewish sects The late R' Menachem
Schneerson z'l still attracts new followers including non jews.
Whether or not there was a real Jesus (I do believe that there WAS
someone around whom the stories were built -----whenever) The Jesus
sect went viral for the SAME reason lots of religions were established
historically----THE KING SAID SO. Even later on----various sects of
Christianity HAPPENED----because the king said so. Various whole
countries became muslim-----because the king said so

 

[hobelim]

.There were plenty of people who pissed off the religious and political establishments of the day just like they do today as well... We both know that giving them godlike powers is both nonsensical and rediculous... Yes there are metaphors and secret meanings in the scriptures I will not debate that with you... A code if you like easy to see once it is revealed but I do not attribute it to a Real Jesus...

Yes, its been a while but I see you still have your nose buried deep inside Hashevs butt. But don't worry, I won't make a big deal about it or debate you on the hidden significance of the command to refrain from the flesh of brown nosed dorks.

Anyway, why would the Romans, as bad ass as they were, go through the unimaginable trouble to change traditions and the pantheon of gods throughout the entire empire and compel the entire population to practice a new religion dedicated to perverting the teachings of Jew and the image of his God? Why would they do that unless there was a deep seated hatred for a man that really existed? Why not start a religion dedicated to Giuseppe? Why a Jew that never existed?

Makes no sense unless he was a real historical figure that has a real impact on their culture for good or bad.

..Interestingly the same method has been working worldwide regarding Christianity and its absorbing Hebrew values and concepts..... A sort of osmosis if you like for any who have studied chemistry... Slowly over a long period of time Hebrew concepts and ideals have slowly but surely remoulded the world and the nations...

Exactly.

Jesus said "this generation" (the only branch of Judaism that the Romans permitted to continue) would live to see everything that Jesus predicted come true and would persist until his return..

it wasn't "the romans" hobie. It was CONSTANTINE------well ---actually
his mother, who was ATTRACTED to the sect of followers of the thing
they called "JESUS" Not all that unusual ------even today there are
fervent followers of new jewish sects The late R' Menachem
Schneerson z'l still attracts new followers including non jews.
Whether or not there was a real Jesus (I do believe that there WAS
someone around whom the stories were built -----whenever) The Jesus
sect went viral for the SAME reason lots of religions were established
historically----THE KING SAID SO. Even later on----various sects of
Christianity HAPPENED----because the king said so. Various whole
countries became muslim-----because the king said so

Still that doesn't account for why Constantine would have listened to his mother.

Even that story is suspect darling...You must still be suffering the ill effects of your catechism days.

Why do you suppose the Romans wiped out the pantheon of gods and every other brach of Judaism but allowed rabbinic judaism to persist even after the national religion became compulsory "Christian" worship of a jewish man under penalty of death?


Psst. It wasn't because they were clever. So don't try to be clever now.

 

[irosie91]

The history is very murky, the accounts were written generations after the events.
This is obvious in the inconsistencies in the 'Gospels', that were cherry-picked for inclusion in the
'Holy Bible', a totally man-made confection of dimly-remembered events embroidered with fiction to conform to the ancient prophecies.

and engineered a bit to please THE KING of a land and King that had for decades
DISDAINED two important issues------
1) CHRISTIANS
2) JEWS
then his mother became ENAMOURED of the New Jewish Sect

for those who do not know----the mother is SAINT HELENA

 

[irosie91]

.There were plenty of people who pissed off the religious and political establishments of the day just like they do today as well... We both know that giving them godlike powers is both nonsensical and rediculous... Yes there are metaphors and secret meanings in the scriptures I will not debate that with you... A code if you like easy to see once it is revealed but I do not attribute it to a Real Jesus...

Yes, its been a while but I see you still have your nose buried deep inside Hashevs butt. But don't worry, I won't make a big deal about it or debate you on the hidden significance of the command to refrain from the flesh of brown nosed dorks.

Anyway, why would the Romans, as bad ass as they were, go through the unimaginable trouble to change traditions and the pantheon of gods throughout the entire empire and compel the entire population to practice a new religion dedicated to perverting the teachings of Jew and the image of his God? Why would they do that unless there was a deep seated hatred for a man that really existed? Why not start a religion dedicated to Giuseppe? Why a Jew that never existed?

Makes no sense unless he was a real historical figure that has a real impact on their culture for good or bad.

..Interestingly the same method has been working worldwide regarding Christianity and its absorbing Hebrew values and concepts..... A sort of osmosis if you like for any who have studied chemistry... Slowly over a long period of time Hebrew concepts and ideals have slowly but surely remoulded the world and the nations...

Exactly.

Jesus said "this generation" (the only branch of Judaism that the Romans permitted to continue) would live to see everything that Jesus predicted come true and would persist until his return..

it wasn't "the romans" hobie. It was CONSTANTINE------well ---actually
his mother, who was ATTRACTED to the sect of followers of the thing
they called "JESUS" Not all that unusual ------even today there are
fervent followers of new jewish sects The late R' Menachem
Schneerson z'l still attracts new followers including non jews.
Whether or not there was a real Jesus (I do believe that there WAS
someone around whom the stories were built -----whenever) The Jesus
sect went viral for the SAME reason lots of religions were established
historically----THE KING SAID SO. Even later on----various sects of
Christianity HAPPENED----because the king said so. Various whole
countries became muslim-----because the king said so

Still that doesn't account for why Constantine would have listened to his mother.

Even that story is suspect darling...You must still be suffering the ill effects of your catechism days.

Why do you suppose the Romans wiped out the pantheon of gods and every other brach of Judaism but allowed rabbinic judaism to persist even after the national religion became compulsory "Christian" worship of a jewish man under penalty of death?


Psst. It wasn't because they were clever. So don't try to be clever now.

what does "the romans wiped out every other branch of Judaism but.....
rabbinic Judaism" mean?? Helena was a very powerful lady----
not just 'his mother' the Jesus sect had already gotten around------in fact
it was popular because Judaism had been popular amongst some greek
and roman intellectuals. There was a time when Christianity was nothing more than a jewish sect centered on a charismatic person (just like early Chassidism). As to 'worship of a jewish man' -----Christianity has been
DIVESTING jesus of his Judaism for the past 2000 years.
Constantine also made conversion to Judaism ILLEGAL <<< first step
to genocide. The church took it from there

 

[The Irish Ram]

The history is very murky, the accounts were written generations after the events.
This is obvious in the inconsistencies in the 'Gospels', that were cherry-picked for inclusion in the
'Holy Bible', a totally man-made confection of dimly-remembered events embroidered with fiction to conform to the ancient prophecies.

It was written in real time. The proof is the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is nothing murky about it. Peter wrote while in the presence of many that saw Christ. Man made confections can't predict the future. 1/4 of the Bible is prophecy to leave no doubt about who the author really is. Like predicting the exact day Israel would become a Nation again. Or that the Jews would revert to their original language when no other displaced peoples have done so. Then there is the discovery of a code that can only be unlocked with the advent of the computer.

You can't even predict the name of the next winner of the Kentucky Derby, let alone the events 2000 years from now...

 

[irosie91]

The history is very murky, the accounts were written generations after the events.
This is obvious in the inconsistencies in the 'Gospels', that were cherry-picked for inclusion in the
'Holy Bible', a totally man-made confection of dimly-remembered events embroidered with fiction to conform to the ancient prophecies.

It was written in real time. The proof is the Dead Sea Scrolls. There is nothing murky about it. Peter wrote while in the presence of many that saw Christ. Man made confections can't predict the future. 1/4 of the Bible is prophecy to leave no doubt about who the author really is. Like predicting the exact day Israel would become a Nation again. Or that the Jews would revert to their original language when no other displaced peoples have done so. Then there is the discovery of a code that can only be unlocked with the advent of the computer.

You can't even predict the name of the next winner of the Kentucky Derby, let alone the events 2000 years from now...

what do you imagine that you found in the dead sea scrolls
that have anything to do with Jesus? To what predictions
BY JESUS have you conjured up in your mind?

 

[kjw47]

We know which John...
But if there were no Johns, Jesus, the Christ, would still be Lord.

try not to use the subjunctive tense in "intellectual" conversation. ----
If there were no johns------which john do you KNOW it was?
While your at it--------who is john's "WHORE OF BABYLON"?----
or that beast with a bunch of heads?

Babylon the great = 99% of all religion on earth.
The 7 headed beast with 10 horns= the united nations. a horn = a kingdom-10 horns= a place where kingdoms gather.

 

[kjw47]

Do you know him?-- John 20:17, Revelation 3:12--1Corinthians 15:24-28

Know him as a liar? 'Cause you used the problematic verse in John that shows him telling Mary to lie for him, since he didn't ascend to Father he descended to hell instead he is telling her to lie.
Acts 2:27, 1 Peter 3:19,
Apostles creed=he went the opposite direction unless he admits he's the son of the devil(his father).-oops
View attachment 206469
Above is rhe fishman god Dagon who was called the devil, his son was baal born dec 25th & Baal's 3day risen from the dead out of a tomb death scene is masked imitated by his son the morning star=Jesus in Rev 22:16.
Look up the Canaanite dying god son mythology of athtar the fierce.

Only in your false reasonings.Jesus did ascend to the Father eventually so he was not lying. Gods truth existed before the cannanites.

 

[kjw47]

We know which John...
But if there were no Johns, Jesus, the Christ, would still be Lord.

try not to use the subjunctive tense in "intellectual" conversation. ----
If there were no johns------which john do you KNOW it was?
While your at it--------who is john's "WHORE OF BABYLON"?----
or that beast with a bunch of heads?

As far as "intellectual" conversation, if there were no Johns, there would be no Johns to refer to. Your question is moot. I am referring to the John that Peter referred to and Matthew referred to and so on. The one that Jesus spoke of.

Not so sure that fruit trees are germane to the topic, but to get back on OP track:

Yes, I do know Him and He is wonderful.

2 Pet. 3:18
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

And, what's his name told me Jesus said this:

I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me

:

Do you know him?-- John 20:17, Revelation 3:12--1Corinthians 15:24-28

John of Giscala, that John?

The thread is about knowing Jesus.

 

[kjw47]

Does it really matter 'who'?
The lesson is in the words, and Jesus was an incredible Teacher.
For that, he deserves our reverence, but hardly more than, say, a Ghandi, or Dalai Lama.

How many deformed people, or blind, etc did they cure on the spot?= 0-- they don't hold a candle to Gods son.