The Right To Bear Arms

[williepete]

The military or the national guard would have no problem firing on Americans if they were ordered to.

The guy piloting a drone from a bunker would have no problem dropping a bomb in the US

You're just wrong and frankly out of your depth.

I disobeyed three general orders when I was on active duty. It was obvious to everyone and nobody said a word about it. I was right and the orders were wrong. Nothing happened. Disobeying one of the general orders on multiple occasions actually brought me more respect from a certain population of my squadron at the time.

There's a fantasy robot military image living rent free in your mind. That doesn't mean it exists in reality.

 

[kaz]

All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

How'd that work in Vietnam? Heard of the term "fragging".

I started out enlisted before I was commissioned an officer. There's nothing magic about an officer that would make any enlisted man believe him or obey him without doubt. Enlisted and officer alike are trained in the laws of armed conflict. Obeying an illegal order does not protect you under the law.

Any officer ordering his men to kill American citizens is as illegal as it gets. The officer giving the order to kill civilians is by far more likely to be the one killed than civilians. Take that to the bank.

American military men are Americans first, last and always. Wearing the uniform doesn't turn them into mindless robots. You didn't serve so I understand why you'll never understand.

Tell that to all the civilians killed in Nam

And no I didn't and I wouldn't.

The fucking government sent my dad off to die for nothing in a game of political brinkmanship. So I don't owe this country anything

I totally agree. The war criminal in Vietnam was LBJ who sent our military over there, then tied their hands. Then he kept it going as his economic policy. I'm not absolving everyone else, but he was the one behind it. Every American who died in Vietnam was murdered by the American government. You either fight a war or you leave.

One family friend was a fighter pilot in Vietnam. He flew over the factories every day making weapons to kill Americans. Not only was he not allowed to attack them, but if he'd fired one bullet, they would have court martialed him. It made him sick. Again, nothing I said in this discussion was in any way intended to be disrespectful of your father. I'm just standing up for the dozens of people I know or who I knew who fought in the US military in every war since WWI.

 

[Flash]

You believe in those filthy ass government background checks for firearms.

If you are so upset, just pitch a tent at a gun show. Good luck!

Have you ever even been to a gun show? Do you have a clue what you are talking about?

 

[Flash]

All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

How'd that work in Vietnam? Heard of the term "fragging".

I started out enlisted before I was commissioned an officer. There's nothing magic about an officer that would make any enlisted man believe him or obey him without doubt. Enlisted and officer alike are trained in the laws of armed conflict. Obeying an illegal order does not protect you under the law.

Any officer ordering his men to kill American citizens is as illegal as it gets. The officer giving the order to kill civilians is by far more likely to be the one killed than civilians. Take that to the bank.

American military men are Americans first, last and always. Wearing the uniform doesn't turn them into mindless robots. You didn't serve so I understand why you'll never understand.

Tell that to all the civilians killed in Nam

And no I didn't and I wouldn't.

The fucking government sent my dad off to die for nothing in a game of political brinkmanship. So I don't owe this country anything

I totally agree. The war criminal in Vietnam was LBJ who sent our military over there, then tied their hands. Then he kept it going as his economic policy. I'm not absolving everyone else, but he was the one behind it. Every American who died in Vietnam was murdered by the American government. You either fight a war or you leave.

One family friend was a fighter pilot in Vietnam. He flew over the factories every day making weapons to kill Americans. Not only was he not allowed to attack them, but if he'd fired one bullet, they would have court martialed him. It made him sick. Again, nothing I said in this discussion was in any way intended to be disrespectful of your father. I'm just standing up for the dozens of people I know or who I knew who fought in the US military in every war since WWI.

War sucks doesn't it?

Roosevelt sent Americans off to kill German and Japanese citizens including children. What else is new?

Lincoln sent the filthy Union Army to kill Americans and burn down American cities.

Some of the "heroes" of WWII (like Patton and Eisenhower) attacked and killed American veterans in the Bonus camp.

Too bad the American people elected that Democrat LBJ in 1964, wasn't it? Barry Goldwater actually believed in non interventionism as a real Conservative.

Lets just hope that American troops never fire upon American citizens. If there was a popular uprising some will and some won't. What we do know is that American troops took firearms away from otherwise law abiding citizens trying to protect their homes during the aftermath of Katrina and that was despicable.

As long as American citizens have the right to keep and bear arms then they hold the power to remove despots from office and that is a good thing as envisioned by our Founding Fathers. Whether we have the courage of a nation to do the right thing and what kind of opposition we would get from the government thugs are different questions.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yep, unlike you I believe in innocent until proven guilty

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Yep, unlike you I believe in innocent until proven guilty

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yep, unlike you I believe in innocent until proven guilty

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Yep, unlike you I believe in innocent until proven guilty

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

Did you pull that idea out of a hat?

I will tell you what... Quickly browse through the original Zimmerman thread, where I have hundreds of posts, and tell me if you find ANY hint of the assertion you have made.

The best of luck to you.

The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

Until then and until when you quote me of ANYTHING of worth to you, your assertion is wholly invalid.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Mr. millimeter Shooter, there is always an exception to the rule or law. Nixon, Bush, Cheney and Hillary are some examples.

I also believe Obama was guilty of tax evasion. There was a story during his first campaign that the Justice Department was considering putting him in jail for it. Although, the story did not last very long and most people forgot about it. I will try to find a link to the story, if you ask for it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

I will tell you what... Quickly browse through the original Zimmerman thread, where I have hundreds of posts, and tell me if you find ANY hint of the assertion you have made.

No need -- I have it here, quoted above.

Me:
So, just to be clear...GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.

You:
Of course, they are.

Thus, you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

I will tell you what... Quickly browse through the original Zimmerman thread, where I have hundreds of posts, and tell me if you find ANY hint of the assertion you have made.

No need -- I have it here, quoted above.

Me:
So, just to be clear...GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.

You:
Of course, they are.

Thus, you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

I made a highly ambiguous statement which has to be taken at face value, but if you graduated first grade, you would understand that the conclusion YOU made came from your own head and ONLY your own head.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

I will tell you what... Quickly browse through the original Zimmerman thread, where I have hundreds of posts, and tell me if you find ANY hint of the assertion you have made.

No need -- I have it here, quoted above.

Me:
So, just to be clear...GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.

You:
Of course, they are.

Thus, you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

I made a highly ambiguous statement which has to be taken at face value, but if you graduated first grade, you would understand that the conclusion YOU made came from your own head and ONLY your own head.

:yawn:
I tire of your petulance.
Do you you or do you not believe that Bush and Cheney are war criminals?
Have they been convicted of war crimes?

 

[KissMy]

Yep, unlike you I believe in innocent until proven guilty

So, just to be clear...
GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.
Right?

Of course, they are.

Ah. So you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

They were proven guilty. Look it up.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Why even sweat it.

Yes... and, in your opinion, people need not be proven guilty to be guilty.

I will tell you what... Quickly browse through the original Zimmerman thread, where I have hundreds of posts, and tell me if you find ANY hint of the assertion you have made.

No need -- I have it here, quoted above.

Me:
So, just to be clear...GWB and Dick Cheney are -not- war criminals.

You:
Of course, they are.

Thus, you do NOT believe in innocent until proven guilty.

I made a highly ambiguous statement which has to be taken at face value, but if you graduated first grade, you would understand that the conclusion YOU made came from your own head and ONLY your own head.

:yawn:
I tire of your petulance.
Do you you or do you not believe that Bush and Cheney are war criminals?
Have they been convicted of war crimes?

You made yourself zonk, by asking moronic questions.

Yes, of course, I believe Bush and Cheney are war criminals. Each worse than Genghis Kahn.

Bush made an ultimatum to the Taliban after 9-11, one he knew by heart they could not keep. It took us more than ten years to kill Bin Laden. How in the world could the Taliban have turned over Bin Laden? Tell me that! They could not have and never could in a million years. The Taliban had NO control over Bin Laden, no more than we did at the time. Actually, we had far more control over Bin Laden, with our better intelligence, the Rangers ready to go and Blackhawks and fighters also at the ready. It would have been the simplest thing in the world to take out Bin Landen then while he was contained to a certain area in Afghanistan. We could have done it and contained it to a small area, and the Taliban would have been none the wiser. But nooooooooo, Mr. Bush had to start a war and scatter the Taliban like ants. If you follow my reasong, which is almost as sound as it gets, anyone would conclude, Bush did it that way so he could kill millions of Muslims, start more major wars, hype his legacy, and with a little luck control the entire ME, and probably he had his sights at the U.S. not long from then ruling the world.

I started a thread on the forum I was on before this one. It was right before our invasion of Libya, and about how, with the invasion of Libya, it was fairly plain to all the U.S. wanted to rule the world, when we invaded Libya. I got a some replies, but no one took it seriously. However, it may take longer than they dreamed it would, but the U.S. is still in lockstep on its way to ruling the world.

 

[Brambo]

It's definitely not the most important amendment, like most conservatives argue, but it's not obsolete. We're the United Freakin States. We were founded on a revolutionary crazy notion that people are allowed to be as free as they want.

If you take away that crazy, then we're closer to being like the French. And no one wants that.

They are so free they can go to prison for 20 years for smoking pot!

And until a couple years ago couldn't marry the same sex!

Now their right to use whatever bathroom they deem appropriate is threatened!

THATS SO FREE BRO.

 

[Brambo]

Right or wrong, obsolete or relevant, the Second Amendment essentially means what five justices on the Supreme Court say it means.

Your modern musket won't win a war against a tyrannical Federal Army.

So you just proved the 2nd Amendment is WORTHLESS.

 

[dannyboys]

It's definitely not the most important amendment, like most conservatives argue, but it's not obsolete. We're the United Freakin States. We were founded on a revolutionary crazy notion that people are allowed to be as free as they want.

If you take away that crazy, then we're closer to being like the French. And no one wants that.

They are so free they can go to prison for 20 years for smoking pot!

And until a couple years ago couldn't marry the same sex!

Now their right to use whatever bathroom they deem appropriate is threatened!

THATS SO FREE BRO.

That's enough of your drivel
Permanent Ignore asshole!

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Cheney is simply a war criminal for backing Bush every step of the way, and we know he is a cold-blooded murderer. Cheney fired a shotgun directly at the chest of a fellow hunter. I still remember this story, and the impression I got was he was aiming for the hunter's head. He knew damn well what he was doing. "I'm the greatest vice-president ever, who sits behind the throne of the greatest president ever..." "And I can do whatever the fuck I want as long as I keep it low key.

Cheney Says He's to Blame in Shooting of Fellow Hunter

 

[Brambo]

It's definitely not the most important amendment, like most conservatives argue, but it's not obsolete. We're the United Freakin States. We were founded on a revolutionary crazy notion that people are allowed to be as free as they want.

If you take away that crazy, then we're closer to being like the French. And no one wants that.

They are so free they can go to prison for 20 years for smoking pot!

And until a couple years ago couldn't marry the same sex!

Now their right to use whatever bathroom they deem appropriate is threatened!

THATS SO FREE BRO.

That's enough of your drivel
Permanent Ignore asshole!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

I love it when a conservatard abandons intellectual challenges to their stupid bubble.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

It's definitely not the most important amendment, like most conservatives argue, but it's not obsolete. We're the United Freakin States. We were founded on a revolutionary crazy notion that people are allowed to be as free as they want.

If you take away that crazy, then we're closer to being like the French. And no one wants that.

They are so free they can go to prison for 20 years for smoking pot!

And until a couple years ago couldn't marry the same sex!

Now their right to use whatever bathroom they deem appropriate is threatened!

THATS SO FREE BRO.

That's enough of your drivel
Permanent Ignore asshole!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

I love it when a conservatard abandons intellectual challenges to their stupid bubble.

You won't laugh as our laws tighten again and again to deal with the terroristic threat, and then there are unruly citizens simply trying to live their life, drive to the store or look at a cop sideways. It will be like a noose tightening around your neck. Still think it is funny. dope

BTW I spent a good time in intelligence and have a lifelong friend who worked closely with the DIA.