The Right To Bear Arms

[Skull Pilot]

All their superiors have to do is tell them that the Americans they are ordered to kill are a threat to America and the drones will fly

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Lol. No they wouldn't! Most would not.

Your opinion.

 

[ChrisL]

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Lol. No they wouldn't! Most would not.

Your opinion.

I don't think you know very many military men and women. They are people, like you and me. They feel that it is important to defend their country, NOT their politicians. It's just craziness to think they would turn their weapons on American citizens because somebody told them to.

 

[Skull Pilot]

All their superiors have to do is tell them that the Americans they are ordered to kill are a threat to America and the drones will fly

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

 

[ChrisL]

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

Doing it in other countries is completely different. They are people and are not going to turn on their friends and fellow countrymen.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Lol. No they wouldn't! Most would not.

Your opinion.

I don't think you know very many military men and women. They are people, like you and me. They feel that it is important to defend their country, NOT their politicians. It's just craziness to think they would turn their weapons on American citizens because somebody told them to.

They take no oath to defend civilians they do take an oath to follow the orders of the commander in chief.

I don't know how you can be so naive as to think our government and its agents would not fire on Americans guilty of no crimes when it has happened before

We certainly have a pretty a pretty high tally killing civilians in other countries too

 

[kaz]

I hope based on a lot of military people I know, including in my family. That they are defending America is a huge thing to them. The idea they would shoot Americans and have "no problem" is just wrong

All their superiors have to do is tell them that the Americans they are ordered to kill are a threat to America and the drones will fly

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

I don't think you know much about the military, personally. But I can only go on my own experience. I'm sorry your father died in the military, but that doesn't mean you know anything about it

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

Doing it in other countries is completely different. They are people and are not going to turn on their friends and fellow countrymen.

Yeah right. You really think any soldier will know the people their officers tell them to shoot?

They won't

 

[Skull Pilot]

All their superiors have to do is tell them that the Americans they are ordered to kill are a threat to America and the drones will fly

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

I don't think you know much about the military, personally. But I can only go on my own experience

I can only go by history

 

[kaz]

I hope based on a lot of military people I know, including in my family. That they are defending America is a huge thing to them. The idea they would shoot Americans and have "no problem" is just wrong

All their superiors have to do is tell them that the Americans they are ordered to kill are a threat to America and the drones will fly

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Well, my family and family friends cover Vietnam to current and every branch of the military and they believe strongly in that they are defending America and Americans, not conquering it and killing them. I believe them

Good for you. I don't. If the order was given for the military to open fire on Americans it would happen

Well, you've just severely limited the scope and left out a lot of assumptions. I took your argument as the military is indifferent to conquering the American people, I didn't take it as there could be an incident. If that's all you meant, then sure, it's possible

 

[williepete]

All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

How'd that work in Vietnam? Heard of the term "fragging".

I started out enlisted before I was commissioned an officer. There's nothing magic about an officer that would make any enlisted man believe him or obey him without doubt. Enlisted and officer alike are trained in the laws of armed conflict. Obeying an illegal order does not protect you under the law.

Any officer ordering his men to kill American citizens is as illegal as it gets. The officer giving the order to kill civilians is by far more likely to be the one killed than civilians. Take that to the bank.

American military men are Americans first, last and always. Wearing the uniform doesn't turn them into mindless robots. You didn't serve so I understand why you'll never understand.

 

[kaz]

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Lol. No they wouldn't! Most would not.

Your opinion.

That's all you're offering, your opinion. American soldiers are very aware that following certain orders makes you a war criminal

 

[kaz]

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

God, corps, country. Granted that's specifically the marines, but that's the military view in general. I think you're thinking of the Nazis with following orders being above what they are fighting for

 

[Skull Pilot]

All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

How'd that work in Vietnam? Heard of the term "fragging".

I started out enlisted before I was commissioned an officer. There's nothing magic about an officer that would make any enlisted man believe him or obey him without doubt. Enlisted and officer alike are trained in the laws of armed conflict. Obeying an illegal order does not protect you under the law.

Any officer ordering his men to kill American citizens is as illegal as it gets. The officer giving the order to kill civilians is by far more likely to be the one killed than civilians. Take that to the bank.

American military men are Americans first, last and always. Wearing the uniform doesn't turn them into mindless robots. You didn't serve so I understand why you'll never understand.

Tell that to all the civilians killed in Nam

And no I didn't and I wouldn't.

The fucking government sent my dad off to die for nothing in a game of political brinkmanship. So I don't owe this country anything

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Lol. No they wouldn't! Most would not.

Your opinion.

That's all you're offering, your opinion. American soldiers are very aware that following certain orders makes you a war criminal

Only if the government that ordered you to fire will prosecute you for it

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

God, corps, country. Granted that's specifically the marines, but that's the military view in general. I think you're thinking of the Nazis with following orders being above what they are fighting for

Soldiers are sent to fight wars the government wants them to fight not the ones they want to fight

 

[kaz]

Do you know anyone in the military?

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

I don't think you know much about the military, personally. But I can only go on my own experience

I can only go by history

OK, that makes sense. Name all the times the US military conquered the American people

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure and my father was killed in the service

I just have no faith that soldiers who are trained to take orders would disobey them. Some might but not enough to matter if the order was given

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

I don't think you know much about the military, personally. But I can only go on my own experience

I can only go by history

OK, that makes sense. Name all the times the US military conquered the American people

I never said anything about conquering did I

I said killing.

big difference

The military or the national guard would have no problem firing on Americans if they were ordered to.

The guy piloting a drone from a bunker would have no problem dropping a bomb in the US

 

[kaz]

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

Do you think they are robots, incapable of thinking for themselves?

They are conditioned to follow orders.

If their superiors or the president orders them to storm a property they will no questions asked.

Those soldiers don't know who they will be shooting at only that their superiors told them that those people were a threat

We've done it to innocent civilians before in other countries we'd do it here too

God, corps, country. Granted that's specifically the marines, but that's the military view in general. I think you're thinking of the Nazis with following orders being above what they are fighting for

Soldiers are sent to fight wars the government wants them to fight not the ones they want to fight

I agree, though I have no idea what point you think you're making on that one

 

[kaz]

Of course they would. They aren't brainwashed! I know plenty of people, ex and current military members, who would never turn their weapons on American citizens.

Like I said not enough to matter if the order was given
All any superior officer has to do is tell them that the people to be killed are not innocent civilians ans are in fact a danger to the country. The average soldier will believe their superior officer

I don't think you know much about the military, personally. But I can only go on my own experience

I can only go by history

OK, that makes sense. Name all the times the US military conquered the American people

I never said anything about conquering did I

I said killing.

big difference

The military or the national guard would have no problem firing on Americans if they were ordered to.

The guy piloting a drone from a bunker would have no problem dropping a bomb in the US

OK, then I'm good. If all you're saying is that there could be an incident where a few innocent people get shot then that's clearly true. I won't go back and word parse your posts, but you made it sound like you were talking about a lot more than that. And from Chris's replies, I believe she took it that way too.

Kent State could happen again. True

 

[ChrisL]

Good Lord.