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Ad homming a solid American veteran and citizen merely demonstrates you have no balls or stick on this OP, Frank.
The bulk of USAAF did not stay in Europe because it was going to Japan. Frank, your alternate history, to be credible, has to reside in the reality of the situation.
The Soviet army and air merely needed to be on the defensive.
It would have taken until winter to refit the armaments on our armor.
The Germans would not have participated: there is no way that Patton would have ever permitted the Germans to rearm and retrain, much less Eisenhower agreeing.
Frank, truly, grow up.
Even upgunning the old Sherman wouldn't have made it match for the Soviets. Historical revisionism at its worst.
Reagan actually made the point that if we'd really have wanted to end the Soviet state via a military attack, we'd simply have done so in 1946, when only we had the ABomb.
Just so. The Soviet line of armor was better than what we had, period.
Even upgunning the old Sherman wouldn't have made it match for the Soviets. Historical revisionism at its worst.
Reagan actually made the point that if we'd really have wanted to end the Soviet state via a military attack, we'd simply have done so in 1946, when only we had the ABomb.
Just so. The Soviet line of armor was better than what we had, period.
Opinion based on What?
You have not offered a shread of evidence to support any of your preposterous claims.
I could just as easily claim the Soviets had secret technology found on an Alien Spacecraft that had crashed in Siberia.
westwall, you demonstrate an incredible lack of knowledge about the Eastern Front.
Now I want you to go back through the posts and checking out why the arguments are lining up they are lining up.
I won't debate the topic with somebody who is being deliberately ignorant about the subject.
I need you to twist your philosophy to the facts not vice versa.
westwall, you demonstrate an incredible lack of knowledge about the Eastern Front.
Now I want you to go back through the posts and checking out why the arguments are lining up they are lining up.
I won't debate the topic with somebody who is being deliberately ignorant about the subject.
I need you to twist your philosophy to the facts not vice versa.
Jake I would wager I know so much more than you about the Eastern Front that it wouldn't be funny. I have walked the battlefields with the warriors from both sides who fought there. I have actually been in the Grain Elevator in Stalingrad, you? It is exactly the same as it was during the battle. I have wandered through the fields around Kharkov and Bryansk, Smolensk, Cholm, and Demyansk. You?
Jason D. Mark is one of the premier authors on eastern front military history and is a good friend of mine. You should read his books, here's a link to one of them and you can follow your nose from there...[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Death-Leaping-Horseman-Division-Stalingrad/dp/0811714047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403123837&sr=8-1&keywords=jason+d+mark]Death of the Leaping Horseman: The 24th Panzer Division in Stalingrad: Jason D. Mark: 9780811714044: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
You'll learn a lot more than the Time Life series you seem to be reading.
westwall, you demonstrate an incredible lack of knowledge about the Eastern Front.
Now I want you to go back through the posts and checking out why the arguments are lining up they are lining up.
I won't debate the topic with somebody who is being deliberately ignorant about the subject.
I need you to twist your philosophy to the facts not vice versa.
Jake I would wager I know so much more than you about the Eastern Front that it wouldn't be funny. I have walked the battlefields with the warriors from both sides who fought there. I have actually been in the Grain Elevator in Stalingrad, you? It is exactly the same as it was during the battle. I have wandered through the fields around Kharkov and Bryansk, Smolensk, Cholm, and Demyansk. You?
Jason D. Mark is one of the premier authors on eastern front military history and is a good friend of mine. You should read his books, here's a link to one of them and you can follow your nose from there...[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Death-Leaping-Horseman-Division-Stalingrad/dp/0811714047/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403123837&sr=8-1&keywords=jason+d+mark]Death of the Leaping Horseman: The 24th Panzer Division in Stalingrad: Jason D. Mark: 9780811714044: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
You'll learn a lot more than the Time Life series you seem to be reading.
Yeah Jake, I bet you never even considered:
Westwall, then you have learned nothing.
Jason is one of many, many historians. But you have made up your mind to wallow in a belief not evidence and investigation.
That you put a faith belief in front of evidence and investigation is your issue not mine.
Westwall, I even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
But I am not an expert on hotels.
And you know very little about the war on the Eastern Front no matter how many battlefields, tours, excursions, and special breakfasts you attended.
I guess those interviews with Brit and US tankers bemoaning the Shermans lack of firepower and tendency to "brew up" were urban legends.
I will send you and Frank a good reading list on the Eastern Front and on Patton's Folly.
You simply do not understand the subject.
He´s right. The Korea War showed that the Soviet tanks were superior to the American tanks. Not to mention the German tanks. In Addition to that the Soviets did not only have medium tanks but many heavy tanks: The KV and JS series.Even upgunning the old Sherman wouldn't have made it match for the Soviets. Historical revisionism at its worst.
Reagan actually made the point that if we'd really have wanted to end the Soviet state via a military attack, we'd simply have done so in 1946, when only we had the ABomb.
Just so. The Soviet line of armor was better than what we had, period.
Opinion based on What?
You have not offered a shread of evidence to support any of your preposterous claims.
I could just as easily claim the Soviets had Ray Gun technology found on an Alien Spacecraft that had crashed in Siberia.
Sherman tanks were not nearly as efficient or as armored as the primary German tank, the Panzer IV. This was a fact even before the upgrading of Panzer gun barrels and armor in 1943. Shermans were under-gunned when fighting German Tiger tanks and out-maneuvered when facing German Panther tanks. These disparities are shown in an account of the famous Lt. Colonel William B. Lovelady, commander of the 3rd Armored Division’s 2nd Battalion, retold by Lt. Colonel Haynes Dugan.
The faults of the Sherman were [...] balanced by the sheer number that could be manufactured and the speed of this production. Regardless of the reasons for the Sherman’s problems, individuals of the Third Armored division dealt with them in their daily lives. The Sherman M4 medium tank proved to be both a “death trap” for American soldiers and a poor defense against German tanks. However, its use by almost all of the Allied Forces was crucial to their ultimate success in WWII.
A Poor Defense: Sherman tanks in WW2 | University of Illinois Archives
He´s right. The Korea War showed that the Soviet tanks were superior to the American tanks. Not to mention the German tanks. In Addition to that the Soviets did not only have medium tanks but many heavy tanks: The KV and JS series.Just so. The Soviet line of armor was better than what we had, period.
Opinion based on What?
You have not offered a shread of evidence to support any of your preposterous claims.
I could just as easily claim the Soviets had Ray Gun technology found on an Alien Spacecraft that had crashed in Siberia.
Sherman tanks were not nearly as efficient or as armored as the primary German tank, the Panzer IV. This was a fact even before the upgrading of Panzer gun barrels and armor in 1943. Shermans were under-gunned when fighting German Tiger tanks and out-maneuvered when facing German Panther tanks. These disparities are shown in an account of the famous Lt. Colonel William B. Lovelady, commander of the 3rd Armored Divisions 2nd Battalion, retold by Lt. Colonel Haynes Dugan.
The faults of the Sherman were [...] balanced by the sheer number that could be manufactured and the speed of this production. Regardless of the reasons for the Shermans problems, individuals of the Third Armored division dealt with them in their daily lives. The Sherman M4 medium tank proved to be both a death trap for American soldiers and a poor defense against German tanks. However, its use by almost all of the Allied Forces was crucial to their ultimate success in WWII.
A Poor Defense: Sherman tanks in WW2 | University of Illinois Archives
He´s right. The Korea War showed that the Soviet tanks were superior to the American tanks. Not to mention the German tanks. In Addition to that the Soviets did not only have medium tanks but many heavy tanks: The KV and JS series.Just so. The Soviet line of armor was better than what we had, period.
Opinion based on What?
You have not offered a shread of evidence to support any of your preposterous claims.
I could just as easily claim the Soviets had Ray Gun technology found on an Alien Spacecraft that had crashed in Siberia.
Sherman tanks were not nearly as efficient or as armored as the primary German tank, the Panzer IV. This was a fact even before the upgrading of Panzer gun barrels and armor in 1943. Shermans were under-gunned when fighting German Tiger tanks and out-maneuvered when facing German Panther tanks. These disparities are shown in an account of the famous Lt. Colonel William B. Lovelady, commander of the 3rd Armored Divisions 2nd Battalion, retold by Lt. Colonel Haynes Dugan.
The faults of the Sherman were [...] balanced by the sheer number that could be manufactured and the speed of this production. Regardless of the reasons for the Shermans problems, individuals of the Third Armored division dealt with them in their daily lives. The Sherman M4 medium tank proved to be both a death trap for American soldiers and a poor defense against German tanks. However, its use by almost all of the Allied Forces was crucial to their ultimate success in WWII.
A Poor Defense: Sherman tanks in WW2 | University of Illinois Archives
It is not very expressive to compare a heavy with a medium tank. The M26 should be compared with JS tanks instead:I see you continue to ignore the M-26......
T-34-85 Vs M26 Pershing: Korea 1950 - Steven J. Zaloga - Google Books
The quote states that the Sherman was not only a weak tank but also a threat to the crew. A tank that tends to flare up even without any enemy action is not predestinated to represent a superior tank force.He´s right. The Korea War showed that the Soviet tanks were superior to the American tanks. Not to mention the German tanks. In Addition to that the Soviets did not only have medium tanks but many heavy tanks: The KV and JS series.Opinion based on What?
You have not offered a shread of evidence to support any of your preposterous claims.
I could just as easily claim the Soviets had Ray Gun technology found on an Alien Spacecraft that had crashed in Siberia.
Sherman tanks were not nearly as efficient or as armored as the primary German tank, the Panzer IV. This was a fact even before the upgrading of Panzer gun barrels and armor in 1943. Shermans were under-gunned when fighting German Tiger tanks and out-maneuvered when facing German Panther tanks. These disparities are shown in an account of the famous Lt. Colonel William B. Lovelady, commander of the 3rd Armored Divisions 2nd Battalion, retold by Lt. Colonel Haynes Dugan.
The faults of the Sherman were [...] balanced by the sheer number that could be manufactured and the speed of this production. Regardless of the reasons for the Shermans problems, individuals of the Third Armored division dealt with them in their daily lives. The Sherman M4 medium tank proved to be both a death trap for American soldiers and a poor defense against German tanks. However, its use by almost all of the Allied Forces was crucial to their ultimate success in WWII.
A Poor Defense: Sherman tanks in WW2 | University of Illinois Archives
^^^^
Your quote does not address the issue, as it does not mention Russian Tanks.
But thanks for trying to bail Jake out of his quagmire of ludicrous unsubstantiated opinions
I guess those interviews with Brit and US tankers bemoaning the Shermans lack of firepower and tendency to "brew up" were urban legends.
Just ask Westwall and Frank
