The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[Unkotare]

I have numerous books ....

That makes you smart!

 

[Mushroom]

On Okinawa, the Japanese Forced the GIs to Kill Half the Civilians and All of Their Military

More correct, the Japanese soldiers themselves killed over half the civilians.

The Okinawans had a long and often brutal occupation by Japan and at that time they were still not considered "Japanese" by those on the main islands. They had a different language, a different way of writing, even different religion and cultural beliefs. In most ways they are actually culturally related to China than they were Japan, and were part of China until 1609 when they were invaded by Japan. And for two centuries it was both tied to China as a tributary and to Japan as a vassal state. Until 1868 when Japan annexed it.

And one of the first things they did was to outlaw the use of the native Ryukyu language, either spoken or written. China tried to maintain their presence but when it was made into a prefecture in 1879 they were not even allowed to vote for their own representatives in the Diet. They were instead assigned by Japan. And they were largely treated as an occupied territory, not unlike Korea at the time. And as the Japanese soldiers did not believe that the Okinawans were "Japanese enough" to kill themselves as they should, they took it upon themselves to do it for them whenever they located them.

Or forced them to move in front of them as they conducted their "banzai charges" at the Americans.

Most of that generation is now gone, but when I was there in the 1980s and talking to an older Okinawan you had to be very careful. At that time all Japanese military personnel were actually restricted to their own bases, and those around 50 or older often took offense if they were referred to as "Japanese" instead of "Okinawan". And Japan frequently poked fun of them, regarding them as simple, stupid, and having darker skins and "barely Japanese". That was actually a common stereotype of those from Okinawa in the main islands, not unlike how many in the US consider those in Hawaii.

Thanks to the presence of Japanese media now having been in place for over 7 decades and huge numbers of Japanese moving there and spending winter vacations there that is no longer as common. But in the 1940s it really was almost a different country from Japan. Even those Japanese on Saipan were more "culturally Japanese" as when Japan took the islands during World War I they deported all the Germans that lived there and by 1920 had huge numbers of colonists shipped there. The population there was around 25,000 when the Americans landed, about 2/3 of them ethnically and culturally Japanese and the rest a mic from Taiwan, Korea, and Okinawa. And most of the thousands of civilians that committed suicide there were originally from mainland Japan. Those from other parts of the Empire primarily hid in the jungles and caves, as suicide was simply not part of their cultures.

 

[Mushroom]

I have numerous books that cover the subject, some books cover the specifics. I ask these questions, rhetorically, to prove the ignorance and trolling of those that I was replying to.View attachment 796195

That is an amazing story, and I have read it myself several times.

Earlier I mentioned a Colonel that was ordered to escape Okinawa and return to Japan, that was Colonel Yahara. And in the book he describes things like the slaughter of civilians and the soldiers using them as human shields, even killing nurses and patients in hospitals that had been relocated to caves.

I have long recommended that as a must read for anybody wanting to know about the battle from the perspective of the Japanese soldier, as he was the highest ranking survivor of the entire garrison and one of the architects of their defensive plans.

 

[Mushroom]

That makes you smart!

No, it makes somebody knowledgeable.

One can be the smartest person on the planet. But if they know nothing of a topic they might as well be a complete moron because they have no facts to base their claims on.

I never claim to be particularly smart. However, I have been studying the Pacific War for over four decades. That makes me very knowledgeable on the subject.

 

[elektra]

That is an amazing story, and I have read it myself several times.

Earlier I mentioned a Colonel that was ordered to escape Okinawa and return to Japan, that was Colonel Yahara. And in the book he describes things like the slaughter of civilians and the soldiers using them as human shields, even killing nurses and patients in hospitals that had been relocated to caves.

I have long recommended that as a must read for anybody wanting to know about the battle from the perspective of the Japanese soldier, as he was the highest ranking survivor of the entire garrison and one of the architects of their defensive plans.

I own the book

 

[Unkotare]

No, it makes somebody knowledgeable.
...

 

[Unkotare]

I own the book
View attachment 796225

 

[gipper]

There never was any need to invade and conquer Okinawa. Total waste.

 

[elektra]

There never was any need to invade and conquer Okinawa. Total waste.

why?

 

[gipper]

why?

Logic.

 

[elektra]

Logic.

than explain your logic, why did we not have to attack okinawa

 

[gipper]

than explain your logic, why did we not have to attack okinawa

Oh please.

Japan was nearly done by then. The US had near total control of sea and sky. Plus..,big plus…the leadership knew the a-bomb was nearly ready and they desperately wanted to use it. Why waste all those people on a nothing island well south of the main islands when you knew the enemy was weak and your super weapon was almost ready?

 

[AZrailwhale]

than explain your logic, why did we not have to attack okinawa

We needed air bases to support the coming invasion, it was a two thousand mile round trip from Okinawa as opposed tothe three thousand mile trip from Tinain. With bases on Okinawa, B-24s could reach Japan to supplement the B-29s from the Marianas.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Oh please.

Japan was nearly done by then. The US had near total control of sea and sky. Plus..,big plus…the leadership knew the a-bomb was nearly ready and they desperately wanted to use it. Why waste all those people on a nothing island well south of the main islands when you knew the enemy was weak and your super weapon was almost ready?

The Japanese had well over a million troops on the Asian mainland that were still fighting Commonwealth and Chinese troops and killing countless civilians. The Japanese were far from defeated in their opinion, and that was the opinion that counted. They had multiple opportunities to surrender and rejected them all.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Oh please.

Japan was nearly done by then. The US had near total control of sea and sky. Plus..,big plus…the leadership knew the a-bomb was nearly ready and they desperately wanted to use it. Why waste all those people on a nothing island well south of the main islands when you knew the enemy was weak and your super weapon was almost ready?

The Trinity test was in mid-July 1945. No one knew the bomb was going to work before that. The war was ended SIX WEEKS later on September 2nd. Other than a literal handful of people outside Alamogordo knew anything about the existence of the bomb. So no, nobody except Truman and a couple of his closest advisors knew anything.

 

[Mushroom]

The Trinity test was in mid-July 1945. No one knew the bomb was going to work before that.

And the Invasion of Okinawa started in April. Most of the fighting other than mopping up was done by late June.

Once again, their logic fails them. If they were about to surrender as so many seem to try claiming, why did they not surrender before the Battle of Okinawa? Hell, at the time Ambassador Sato had not even gotten the instructions yet to contact the Soviets to mediate an armistice. Japan was still trying to decide the next step after both the Swiss and Finland had rejected their proposal to have them act as a mediator.

Oh, and the US did not have "total control of the sea" as somebody else claimed. Japan was actually working every night to shuttle as many soldiers from the mainland to the Home Islands for the final defense. Japan still pretty much had total control of the Sea of Japan, and was using that ability and just about anything that would float to move as many of their forces from China and Korea as they could. Over a million men were moved from Asia to Japan between May and August, in preparation for the final defense. The final number if the Operation Downfall had been conducted as expected would have been around 2.5 million forces in addition to those already on Japan.

A lot of that work being done by the Transport Destroyers of the IJN, in addition to the Japanese Army's fleet of 34 submarines.

 

[gipper]

Okinawa was a total waste as was Iwo Jima. There never was a need to occupy these islands. A naval blockade and bombardment would have saved so many lives and accomplished the same thing. It’s as if the generals and admirals who never risked their lives, sought more medals.

 

[Mushroom]

A naval blockade and bombardment would have saved so many lives and accomplished the same thing.

And when has a naval blockade ever ended a war?

And how many would have died during those "Naval Bombardments"?

 

[toobfreak]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder,

Sure, it kinda HAD to be. Ever see a war that wasn't?

not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Wrong. The nuking of Japan was a DEFENSIVE action taken after every effort to negotiate peace had been rejected by their emperor, making the Japan events final desperate attempts to END the war and gain PEACE.
What the Nazis and Japan did was an OFFENSIVE action making the Japanese and German actions attempts to START war and facilitate further AGGRESSION.

 

[gipper]

And when has a naval blockade ever ended a war?

And how many would have died during those "Naval Bombardments"?

True. No need to bomdard them.