The Two State Option Is Dying

[irosie91]

So when these foreigners destroyed Palestine, how should the Palestinians view them?

How did they destroy Palestine? They took barren wasteland and swamps and turned it into a productive enterprise. If they moved out today it would return to it's former status.

Israeli propaganda crap.

tinsy----no people gladly relinquish the prerequisites of their "class". Long ago---when
I was but a college lass-----I had a hindu friend---who was of the BRAHMIN caste. He
had repudiated that stuff COMPLETELY----but he told me of an uncle ---who was
INDIGNANT every time a law was passed in India granting a bit of help to the "scheduled"
castes-----the cantankerous uncle would complain about "sweepers being made into
kings" The new laws were "DESTROYING INDIAN SOCIETY
Your complaints are actually no different-----the really big issue is that the
"FOREIGNERS" that you describe were jews educated in the world of ENLIGHTENMENT and had a bit of money and their presence in Palestine threatened the filth of of
shariah oppression that you so advocate---that right to rape and pillage and enslave
that so TITTILATES YOU. What the "foreigners" in palestine "DESTROYED" was the
stink of shariah ENSLAVEMENT There are people indignant over the loss of
shariah enslavement in SUDAN too-----you are not alone Its ok go to bed and
DREAM OF **** THE CALIPHATE******* in all its depravity

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

"Destroyed Palestine!"

As I said, being a "foreigner" is seldom a handicap - especially relative to International Principles. The nationality of who signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence is not an issue unless you are a Xenophobe. But, in propaganda, it can be expressed in such a way as to make it sound derogatory (those foreigners!).

So when these foreigners destroyed Palestine, how should the Palestinians view them?

(COMMENT)

I don't think that "the foreigners" destroyed Palestine. Even the Occupied Territories have done well under the Israeli umbrella. The GDP for the Occupied Palestinian Territory is about $8,769M (if it were ranked, it would about #134 on the list of nations) better than Mongolia, Laos, the Bahamas, Nicaragua, Benin, French Polynesia, Moldova, Haiti, Kosovo, Tajikistan, Niger, Rwanda, Liechtenstein, Bermuda, Malawi, and Kyrgyzstan.

Israel, by comparison, has done much better, but it doesn't focus all its efforts on the insurgency, terrorism and war. A regional snapshot of GDPs for the Middle East looks like this:

40 Israel $242,920M
42 Egypt 231,222
57 Iraq 122,750
65 Syria 64,273
84 Lebanon 39,039
90 Jordan 28,840​

No, I don't think "the foreigners" destroyed Palestine. It is just that the Palestinians focus their efforts in other directions. If the Palestinians were a positive influence on regional security, instead of a threat, it might have done much better.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

"Destroyed Palestine!"

As I said, being a "foreigner" is seldom a handicap - especially relative to International Principles. The nationality of who signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence is not an issue unless you are a Xenophobe. But, in propaganda, it can be expressed in such a way as to make it sound derogatory (those foreigners!).

So when these foreigners destroyed Palestine, how should the Palestinians view them?

(COMMENT)

I don't think that "the foreigners" destroyed Palestine. Even the Occupied Territories have done well under the Israeli umbrella. The GDP for the Occupied Palestinian Territory is about $8,769M (if it were ranked, it would about #134 on the list of nations) better than Mongolia, Laos, the Bahamas, Nicaragua, Benin, French Polynesia, Moldova, Haiti, Kosovo, Tajikistan, Niger, Rwanda, Liechtenstein, Bermuda, Malawi, and Kyrgyzstan.

Israel, by comparison, has done much better, but it doesn't focus all its efforts on the insurgency, terrorism and war. A regional snapshot of GDPs for the Middle East looks like this:

40 Israel $242,920M
42 Egypt 231,222
57 Iraq 122,750
65 Syria 64,273
84 Lebanon 39,039
90 Jordan 28,840​

No, I don't think "the foreigners" destroyed Palestine. It is just that the Palestinians focus their efforts in other directions. If the Palestinians were a positive influence on regional security, instead of a threat, it might have done much better.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine is not a threat to anyone but their occupiers.

The occupation can end any time Israel wants and there will be peace.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come now.

Palestine is not a threat to anyone but their occupiers.

The occupation can end any time Israel wants and there will be peace.

(COMMENT)

If it were that simple, it would have been over already.

The Palestinians want more than an end to Occupation of the West Bank for their part in the peace process.

In the mean time, their threat to Region Stability is expanding. One needs only look at Syria to see that.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Come now.

Palestine is not a threat to anyone but their occupiers.

The occupation can end any time Israel wants and there will be peace.

(COMMENT)

If it were that simple, it would have been over already.

The Palestinians want more than an end to Occupation of the West Bank for their part in the peace process.

In the mean time, their threat to Region Stability is expanding. One needs only look at Syria to see that.

Most Respectfully,
R

What does Palestine have to do with Syria?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hamas and Hezbollah seem to be taking different paths, especially in the last year to 18 months.

What does Palestine have to do with Syria?

(COMMENT)

Both Hamas and Hezbollah are making contributions to the cause in Syria. Hezbollah on the side of the Assad Regime. Hamas, a late comer to the struggle, now seems to be supporting the Free Syrian Rebels.

LINK --->
Hamas, Hezbollah Take Opposite Sides in Syria

This even surprised me a little; given that the IRCG-QF has influence in both camps. It might be because Syria shelters an estimated 500,000 Palestinian refugees. Oddly enough, the Assad government has armed a number of Palestinians (mostly Sunni) to fight for pro-Government forces. But there are a growing number of Palestinian Refugees that have taken up the sword on behalf of the Rebel Anti-Government forces.

We will have to see what the strategy is here. But in the mean time, HAMAS fights have been reported, fighting on the Anti-Government side, in recent engagements to the north.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hamas and Hezbollah seem to be taking different paths, especially in the last year to 18 months.

What does Palestine have to do with Syria?

(COMMENT)

Both Hamas and Hezbollah are making contributions to the cause in Syria. Hezbollah on the side of the Assad Regime. Hamas, a late comer to the struggle, now seems to be supporting the Free Syrian Rebels.

LINK --->
Hamas, Hezbollah Take Opposite Sides in Syria

This even surprised me a little; given that the IRCG-QF has influence in both camps. It might be because Syria shelters an estimated 500,000 Palestinian refugees. Oddly enough, the Assad government has armed a number of Palestinians (mostly Sunni) to fight for pro-Government forces. But there are a growing number of Palestinian Refugees that have taken up the sword on behalf of the Rebel Anti-Government forces.

We will have to see what the strategy is here. But in the mean time, HAMAS fights have been reported, fighting on the Anti-Government side, in recent engagements to the north.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

 

[irosie91]

LINK --->[/B]
[URL="http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/04/meshaal-and-nasrallah-brothers-]

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Just think if both HELEN (mother of constantine) and AMINA (um al nabi--)-
Had aborted the filth of their wombs----their would be no first reich,
second reich and third reich and no caliphates and no moghul empire---
and hundreds of millions including scores of million infants ---would not
have been mutilated to death----of course there would be no
HAMAS or HEZBOLLAH either------and no refugees -

 

[ForeverYoung436]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hamas and Hezbollah seem to be taking different paths, especially in the last year to 18 months.

What does Palestine have to do with Syria?

(COMMENT)

Both Hamas and Hezbollah are making contributions to the cause in Syria. Hezbollah on the side of the Assad Regime. Hamas, a late comer to the struggle, now seems to be supporting the Free Syrian Rebels.

LINK --->
Hamas, Hezbollah Take Opposite Sides in Syria

This even surprised me a little; given that the IRCG-QF has influence in both camps. It might be because Syria shelters an estimated 500,000 Palestinian refugees. Oddly enough, the Assad government has armed a number of Palestinians (mostly Sunni) to fight for pro-Government forces. But there are a growing number of Palestinian Refugees that have taken up the sword on behalf of the Rebel Anti-Government forces.

We will have to see what the strategy is here. But in the mean time, HAMAS fights have been reported, fighting on the Anti-Government side, in recent engagements to the north.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Hamas and Hezbollah seem to be taking different paths, especially in the last year to 18 months.


(COMMENT)

Both Hamas and Hezbollah are making contributions to the cause in Syria. Hezbollah on the side of the Assad Regime. Hamas, a late comer to the struggle, now seems to be supporting the Free Syrian Rebels.

LINK --->
Hamas, Hezbollah Take Opposite Sides in Syria

This even surprised me a little; given that the IRCG-QF has influence in both camps. It might be because Syria shelters an estimated 500,000 Palestinian refugees. Oddly enough, the Assad government has armed a number of Palestinians (mostly Sunni) to fight for pro-Government forces. But there are a growing number of Palestinian Refugees that have taken up the sword on behalf of the Rebel Anti-Government forces.

We will have to see what the strategy is here. But in the mean time, HAMAS fights have been reported, fighting on the Anti-Government side, in recent engagements to the north.

Most Respectfully,
R

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

We're talking about the Middle East here. Didn't you ever read the posts of BecauseIKnow? In the Mideast, there's always a religious element involved, whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

[High_Gravity]

" On April 26 in Washington,*the Middle East Policy Council held a discussion*about the "Future of the conflict: Opening the Debate," in which Steve Walt, Henry Siegman, and I argued that the two-state solution is over, one side controls all the territory, and we have to imagine a new future for Israel and Palestine. Below are excerpts of that conversation, focusing on Siegman and Walt's statements. . ...If in fact, the two-state solution is gone — and I believe that that’s the hard reality facing the Palestinians — I have suggested — and I’ve discussed with Palestinian leadership, and more importantly, I think, I’ve discussed it with Palestinian activists, who do not admire greatly their own leadership — the time has come for Palestinians to shut down the Palestinian Authority because the Palestinian Authority is an instrument of the occupation and perpetuates the occupation. And what that makes the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, I leave to your imagination. But certainly that is — that is the reason they virtually have no respect and enjoy virtually no support among the Palestinian public these days. But what I have suggested to them is that they shut down the Palestinian Authority and say to the international community and to Israel, you have succeeded in denying us a state; we have fought for the agreements, called for it, international calls for it, but you have denied that to us; it’s no longer possible; you have succeeded, with your settlement project, in ending that; consequently, what we — we are changing — we are altering our national struggle from statehood to equal rights in that single state that you have created. And if it is done in a way that is credible to the Palestinian — to the Israeli public, there are then only two possibilities, because the one thing that Israelis — the one price that the Israeli public will not pay for greater Israel is a state that, in time, will no longer be Jewish." Walt and Siegman urge Washington to imagine a future without the two-state solution This is what I expect will happen soon, for years people on the ground in Palestine have been saying the two state solution is dead. Things are changing in Israel/Palestine.

I would say so since the Palestinians want the whole thing anyways.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

We're talking about the Middle East here. Didn't you ever read the posts of BecauseIKnow? In the Mideast, there's always a religious element involved, whether you choose to believe it or not.

Did you ever read the Hamas Charter? Not the P.L.O.'s, but Hamas'. I would say there are religious sentiments in there.

 

[High_Gravity]

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

With Muslim countries its always a religious conflict, don't be so niaeve.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

We're talking about the Middle East here. Didn't you ever read the posts of BecauseIKnow? In the Mideast, there's always a religious element involved, whether you choose to believe it or not.

It is only a religious conflict in the sense that the Jews attack the Muslims and Christians.

 

[Hossfly]

Just think. If it was not for Israel there would be no Hamas, no Hezbollah, and no refugees in Syria.

Give credit where credit is due.

Islam is an extreme religion, whether or not Israel is involved (Sudan, Kashmir, etc.)

This is not a religious conflict.

If religion is not involved, then why are the Muslims in different places of the world, even those countries that have none or very few Jews, up in arms about what is happening in one tiny piece of land in the Middle East? When German territorial changes were made after World War II, did you see anybody around the world up in arms over this.

 

[Kondor3]

"...This is not a religious conflict."

Although ostensibly true, in practice, that's about as false as false can be.

Otherwise, why the incessant appeals to the Ummah, in the names of Allah and the Prophet, for fighters and money in support of their religious brethren?

There are religious conflicts, and then there are conflicts with a strong secondary religious component.

This is one of the latter.