The US could Save $5.6B a year if it Switched from Coal to Solar – study

[ding]

So what?

So what? Whatever heat you believe is released from using electricity from solar power would be released from using electricity from fossil fuels, but only electricity generated from solar power reduces the longwave radiation. So trying to argue that conservation of energy is responsible for returning the heat not reflected back into space and therefore does not lead to an incremental cooling is false comparison because relative to the case of generating electricity from fossil fuels there is an incremental decrease in longwave radiation but there is no change or difference in the heat released from using electricity because it's the same in both cases. That's what.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If we switched to solar AND Geico we'd save $5.6B AND 15%

 

[ding]

Is that what you're basing your new Ice Age theory on? LOL!

It's not a new ice age theory, dummy. We've been in an ice age for 3 million years. The planet is decidedly getting cooler because the planet is uniquely configured - for the first time in its history - for bipolar glaciation.

 

[ding]

Burning fossil fuels isn't reducing the albedo of the planet, solar panels are reducing albedo.

And yet... Satellites measured reduced upward longwave radiation in 6 solar farms. With such reduction in upward longwave radiation being consistent with previous in-situ measurements.

Land Surface Temperature (LST) is derived from thermal infrared radiance measured using space-borne radiometers. Compared to adjacent regions without changes before and after solar farm constructions, the solar farm sites have reduced outgoing radiances in three MODIS infrared window channels. Such reduction in upward longwave radiation is consistent with previous in-situ measurements. The MYD11A2 results show constant emissivities before and after solar farm constructions because its land type classification algorithm is not aware of the presence of solar farms. The estimated daytime and nighttime LST reduction due to solar farm deployment are ~1-4K and ~0.2-0.9K, respectively.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...farm_deployment_on_surface_longwave_radiation

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

One more time because you still don't seem to be getting it. Whatever heat you believe is released from using electricity from solar power would be released from using electricity from fossil fuels, but only electricity generated from solar power reduces the longwave radiation. So trying to argue that conservation of energy is responsible for returning the heat not reflected back into space and therefore does not lead to an incremental cooling is false comparison because relative to the case of generating electricity from fossil fuels there is an incremental decrease in longwave radiation but there is no change or difference in the heat released from using electricity because it's the same in both cases.

Whatever heat you believe is released from using electricity from solar power would be released from using electricity from fossil fuels

Absolutely. If I claimed generating electricity with coal reduced the amount of heat released by burning coal, you'd have scored a point there.

but only electricity generated from solar power reduces the longwave radiation.

Solar energy isn't reducing the solar radiation that warms the planet, it's just moving
a portion of it from the panel to the consumer. And the lower albedo is actually increasing
the solar warming of the Earth.

It's that pesky conservation of energy thing again.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And yet... Satellites measured reduced upward longwave radiation in 6 solar farms. With such reduction in upward longwave radiation being consistent with previous in-situ measurements.

Land Surface Temperature (LST) is derived from thermal infrared radiance measured using space-borne radiometers. Compared to adjacent regions without changes before and after solar farm constructions, the solar farm sites have reduced outgoing radiances in three MODIS infrared window channels. Such reduction in upward longwave radiation is consistent with previous in-situ measurements. The MYD11A2 results show constant emissivities before and after solar farm constructions because its land type classification algorithm is not aware of the presence of solar farms. The estimated daytime and nighttime LST reduction due to solar farm deployment are ~1-4K and ~0.2-0.9K, respectively.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...farm_deployment_on_surface_longwave_radiation

And yet... Satellites measured reduced upward longwave radiation in 6 solar farms.

The power being generated isn't being consumed at the solar farms.
If it was, would the reduction have still happened?

 

[ding]

You visualize lots of things that never happened.

Is this something that started after your brain injury?

You are upset. It's understandable. It's not going well for you. You're frustrated.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are upset. It's understandable. It's not going well for you. You're frustrated.

Pointing out your errors isn't upsetting in the least.

I still think you should switch your major though.
You're still struggling with the basic concepts.

 

[ding]

Absolutely. If I claimed generating electricity with coal reduced the amount of heat released by burning coal, you'd have scored a point there.

You are arguing the electricity generated from solar power releases heat. If that's true it's true for all generation types but only solar reduces longwave radiation.

Solar energy isn't reducing the solar radiation that warms the planet, it's just moving
a portion of it from the panel to the consumer. And the lower albedo is actually increasing
the solar warming of the Earth.

It's that pesky conservation of energy thing again.

That's an incorrect way of looking at it. Relative to other generating methods only solar results in a reduction of longwave radiation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's not a new ice age theory, dummy. We've been in an ice age for 3 million years. The planet is decidedly getting cooler because the planet is uniquely configured - for the first time in its history - for bipolar glaciation.

View attachment 609957

It is a new ice age theory, silly.

It's Ding's "Using too much solar energy will cool the planet and cause a new Ice Age" Theory

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are arguing the electricity generated from solar power releases heat

You're arguing that electricity generated from solar power reduces heat.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's an incorrect way of looking at it. Relative to other generating methods only solar results in a reduction of longwave radiation.

Moving 100 watts from a solar panel to a house 100 miles away doesn't reduce longwave radiation.

 

[ding]

The power being generated isn't being consumed at the solar farms.

Correct, but it is being consumed elsewhere and according to you that usage returns whatever heat that wasn't reflected back into space. Your problem is that that heat doesn't care how the electricity was generated. So whether it was generated by fossil fuels or solar it's still being returned and there's no difference between the cases. Whereas solar reduces the upward longwave radiation. So relative to other electrical generating methods solar will have a cooling effect because solar reduces the upward longwave radiation.

If it was, would the reduction have still happened?

It doesn't matter where the electricity is consumed because the consumption of electricity is irrelevant. Electricity will be consumed regardless of the generating method. The reduction in upward longwave radiation is due to solar panels reflecting heat back into space and converting solar radiation into electricity, both of which reduce the solar radiation heating the surface of the planet.

 

[ding]

Pointing out your errors isn't upsetting in the least.

There haven't been any.

I still think you should switch your major though.
You're still struggling with the basic concepts.

I'm not the one denying satellite measurements of reduced upward longwave radiation due to solar panels. You are.

 

[ding]

You're arguing that electricity generated from solar power reduces heat.

I am arguing that satellites have measured reduced upward longwave radiation due to solar farms. You are the one arguing that that does not matter because that heat will be returned by using electricity.

The problem with that is that it is flawed logic. Whatever heat you believe is released from using electricity from solar power would be released from using electricity from fossil fuels, but only electricity generated from solar power reduces the longwave radiation. So trying to argue that conservation of energy is responsible for returning the heat not reflected back into space and therefore does not lead to an incremental cooling is false comparison because relative to the case of generating electricity from fossil fuels there is an incremental decrease in longwave radiation but there is no change or difference in the heat released from using electricity because it's the same in both cases.

 

[ding]

Moving 100 watts from a solar panel to a house 100 miles away doesn't reduce longwave radiation.

Again... Satellites measured reduced upward longwave radiation in 6 solar farms. With such reduction in upward longwave radiation being consistent with previous in-situ measurements.

 

[ding]

It's Ding's "Using too much solar energy will cool the planet and cause a new Ice Age" Theory

Pretty sure the planet will continue cooling regardless. But yes, widespread use of solar will help speed that up.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Pretty sure the planet will continue cooling regardless. But yes, widespread use of solar will help speed that up.

Right, because conservation of energy doesn't apply to solar power.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your problem is that that heat doesn't care how the electricity was generated. So whether it was generated by fossil fuels or solar it's still being returned and there's no difference between the cases.

Right. Burning coal doesn't cool the planet. Using solar doesn't cool the planet.

 

[ding]

Right, because conservation of energy doesn't apply to solar power.

That's an incorrect way of looking at it. Whatever heat you believe is released from using electricity from solar power would be released from using electricity from fossil fuels, but only electricity generated from solar power reduces the longwave radiation. So trying to argue that conservation of energy is responsible for returning the heat not reflected back into space and therefore does not lead to an incremental cooling is a false comparison because relative to the case of generating electricity from fossil fuels there is an incremental decrease in longwave radiation but there is no change or difference in the heat released from using electricity because it's the same in both cases.