The US is a Democracy

[Spycraft]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

 

[Spycraft]

Furthermore, in the Republican form of Government, to hold office you had to pass the "Curses Honorum".

You could not hold the title of Consul until you previously held the Praetorship, the Qaestor, and were a Senator, etc.

In the US, any natural born citizen of certain age can at any time run for President and if elected, hold that office despite never having held public office before.

That is another quality straight out of Aristotle's polity/democratic definitions.

 

[Indeependent]

The closest to a Democracy is a Proposition and that requires a non-Democratic process to be approved.

 

[Spycraft]

The closest to a Democracy is a Proposition and that requires a non-Democratic process to be approved.

That's not true at all.

No where in classic political theory does a Democracy require direct approval of the people. It has always been defined by the public offices available to the people and how they are available.

Otherwise Rome would be more of a Democracy than the US because Rome required direct voting by each citizen on every law to be passed.

Do you say Rome was a direct Democracy?

If not, why not? Every law proposed by a single Consul, and not vetoed by another Consul, then had to be passed by a public assembly of all the citizens.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

 

[Indeependent]

The closest to a Democracy is a Proposition and that requires a non-Democratic process to be approved.

That's not true at all.

No where in classic political theory does a Democracy require direct approval of the people. It has always been defined by the public offices available to the people and how they are available.

Otherwise Rome would be more of a Democracy than the US because Rome required direct voting by each citizen on every law to be passed.

Do you say Rome was a direct Democracy?

If not, why not? Every law proposed by a single Consul, and not vetoed by another Consul, then had to be passed by a public assembly of all the citizens.

Try Politics for Dummies.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

 

[Spycraft]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

 

[Indeependent]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

Bu...bu...bu...but he’s edgeyoumuhkayted!

 

[Spycraft]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

No one ever said you're smart, you're just dumb thinking you know something when clearly you don't know anything or you could refute what I posted rather than just blather like a wet-diaper idiot.

 

[gipper]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

The USA is a banana republic run for and by the .01%.

 

[Indeependent]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

 

[Spycraft]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

 

[Indeependent]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

No one ever said you're smart, you're just dumb thinking you know something when clearly you don't know anything or you could refute what I posted rather than just blather like a wet-diaper idiot.

You apparently are suffering from the delusion that I give a shit what you are spouting, except to point out that you are apparently clueless as to our form of government. No one else needs to be educated on this topic, except you!

 

[nat4900]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

First of all, WELCOME to this somewhat right-leaning forum.......and, good post above.

Please note that for most (not all) right wingers on here the mention of someone named Aristotle would probably remind them of some waiter at a Greek restaurant.

Second, what most right wingers on here would rather have regarding the style of government, probably would resemble more what Plato wrote in his Republic.

....and yes, Roman governance was mush more a plutocracy.

 

[Spycraft]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

First of all, WELCOME to this somewhat right-leaning forum.......and, good post above.

Please note that for most (not all) right wingers on here the mention of someone named Aristotle would probably remind them of some waiter at a Greek restaurant.

Second, what most right wingers on here would rather have regarding the style of government, probably would resemble more what Plato wrote in his Republic.

....and yes, Roman governance was mush more a plutocracy.

Just so you know, Plato's Republic described modern Communism.

But, yes, I'm sure most Conservatives with their child's-pool deep understanding of things would think Plato's Republic is a perfect example of a government, because that's what they are told to think about it and they never read it.

 

[Spycraft]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

You just proved you are not an American citizen, or just incredibly stupid, because you disputed something that every intelligent middle school student knows to be true.

No one ever said you're smart, you're just dumb thinking you know something when clearly you don't know anything or you could refute what I posted rather than just blather like a wet-diaper idiot.

You apparently are suffering from the delusion that I give a shit what you are spouting, except to point out that you are apparently clueless as to our form of government. No one else needs to be educated on this topic, except you!

Your chattering dribble chin is going off.

 

[Spycraft]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

 

[Indeependent]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

You are conflating, but I get your gist...
Roman Republic citizens were required to serve in order to make all citizens desire a better Roman Republic.
Roman Republic citizens did not have to kiss ass or be millionaires in order to hold public office.
Realistically speaking, running for State or Federal level office is a wet dream.