The US is a Democracy

[nat4900]

Just so you know, Plato's Republic described modern Communism.

Glad you added the adjective "modern"......since Plato's Republic very much resembles modern day Russia and not necessarily the Marxist style of communism.

 

[Spycraft]

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

You are conflating, but I get your gist...
Roman Republic citizens were required to serve in order to make all citizens desire a better Roman Republic.
Roman Republic citizens did not have to kiss ass or be millionaires in order to hold public office.
Realistically speaking, running for State or Federal level office is a wet dream.

Uh what?

Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced.

For example, allowing one consul to be a pleb instead of a patrician.

 

[Indeependent]

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

You are conflating, but I get your gist...
Roman Republic citizens were required to serve in order to make all citizens desire a better Roman Republic.
Roman Republic citizens did not have to kiss ass or be millionaires in order to hold public office.
Realistically speaking, running for State or Federal level office is a wet dream.

Uh what?

LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced.

For example, allowing one consul to be a pleb instead of a Patrician.

"LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced."
Single sentence contradiction! Kewl!

You better specify your times period because Rome went through a bunch of periods depending on which sane or insane caeser was running things.

 

[Spycraft]

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

You are conflating, but I get your gist...
Roman Republic citizens were required to serve in order to make all citizens desire a better Roman Republic.
Roman Republic citizens did not have to kiss ass or be millionaires in order to hold public office.
Realistically speaking, running for State or Federal level office is a wet dream.

Uh what?

LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced.

For example, allowing one consul to be a pleb instead of a Patrician.

"LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced."
Single sentence contradiction! Kewl!

You better specify your times period because Rome went through a bunch of periods depending on which sane or insane caeser was running things.

Which insane Caesar was running things? You mean the Roman Empire? Not the Republic?

All the way up until Caesar certain classes of citizens still could not hold all public offices, thus it was a Republic throughout its entire history of being a Republic.

Earlier in its history it was more restrictive, such as the beginning, when some class of Citizens could vote for people to hold public office, but could not themselves hold any public office.

 

[Indeependent]

One person, one vote...not on a Federal level.

What does that have to do with the question? Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government (meaning hold office in whichever office they choose to run for and win election)?

You are conflating, but I get your gist...
Roman Republic citizens were required to serve in order to make all citizens desire a better Roman Republic.
Roman Republic citizens did not have to kiss ass or be millionaires in order to hold public office.
Realistically speaking, running for State or Federal level office is a wet dream.

Uh what?

LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced.

For example, allowing one consul to be a pleb instead of a Patrician.

"LOL Roman citizens weren't even allowed to hold public office if they weren't born to a certain class of families called patricians, it wasn't for 300 years before that restriction was reduced."
Single sentence contradiction! Kewl!

You better specify your times period because Rome went through a bunch of periods depending on which sane or insane caeser was running things.

Which insane Caesar was running things? You mean the Roman Empire? Not the Republic?

All the way up until Caesar certain classes of citizens still could not hold all public offices, thus it was a Republic throughout its entire history of being a Republic.

Earlier in its history it was more restrictive, such as the beginning, when some class of Citizens could vote for people to hold public office, but could not themselves hold any public office.

The US, on a Federal Level, is not a Democracy defined as one person, one person, one vote.
And I don't give a rat's ass about Pluto or Mars.
You have to prove America, as a nation, is a Democracy.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The US is a Constitutional Republic.
A constitutional republic is a state in which the head of state and other officials are representatives of the people. They must govern within an existing constitution. In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers may be separated into distinct branches.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Conservatives sometimes love to say "the US isn't a Democracy" implying it's a Republic, but this is just false on the face of it.

There are six constitutional forms and Republic is not one of them.

The closest equivalent is to Aristotle's definition of Democracy: That all citizens can participate in all forms of Government.

Aristotle's Political Theory (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

The distinction between a Democracy and Republic can only be made to Rome (which calls itself Republican and derives the name).

Unfortunately for the Conservative, the US is nothing like Rome. Rome did not call itself a Republic because it had representative government, there were plenty of democratic examples of representative governments at the time. Rome called itself a Republic because its peculiar government (where Democracy or the perfect form, polity, wasn't in their vocabulary) denied all Citizens from having access to some parts of Government.

Thus the US would be a Republic if AND ONLY IF certain citizens alone could be President, or Senator.

In the original Republican government of Rome, only a Patrician could become Consul, and Senator, and Qaestor, etc.

In fact, even though everyone could vote that were Citizens, only Patricians could hold public office, at first.

As the Republican government of Rome evolved, some offices, and eventually almost all offices were opened to the Plebeians as well.

However, a few offices were denied to them such as certain important religious auspices.

So in conclusion, the US was never a Republic by any historical definition, it was always a Democracy in that all its Citizens were free to hold any public office.

Democracy - Wikipedia

Republic[edit]
Main article: Republicanism
The term republic has many different meanings, but today often refers to a representative democracy with an elected head of state, such as a president, serving for a limited term, in contrast to states with a hereditary monarch as a head of state, even if these states also are representative democracies with an elected or appointed head of government such as a prime minister.[117]

The Founding Fathers of the United States rarely praised and often criticised democracy, which in their time tended to specifically mean direct democracy, often without the protection of a constitution enshrining basic rights; James Madison argued, especially in The Federalist No. 10, that what distinguished a democracy from a republic was that the former became weaker as it got larger and suffered more violently from the effects of faction, whereas a republic could get stronger as it got larger and combats faction by its very structure.

 

[Oldstyle]

Wrong. The OP has no understanding of the terms and concepts he is trying to discuss.

Except that whole part where I cite the definition by Aristotle, and present the evidence of how the Roman government worked as an example of an actual Republic, even going so far as to demonstrate that in passing laws Rome was the very definition of a Direct Democracy but they never self-identified that way because the Romans knew that they restricted political office based on class (Patrician specifically).

The US is not a Democracy and you’re one of the reasons for that.

How is it not a Democracy?

Can all citizens participate in all offices of Government?

Yes or no?

Do you really not know that's a resounding no?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Well the OP has missed it a little.
We are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy, but in a pure democracy the majority would be directly voting on every issue.

Much of our lawmaking is accomplished by our elected officials, so in that case, we are a 'republic'.

You could also call us a 'constitutional democracy' in which courts can restrain some of that 'democracy' of the majority will.

So yeah, we can call ourselves a 'democracy' but there are some qualifiers.