Zone1 The White Affirmative Action Program

[IM2]

I noticed he said that nobody alive today was responsible for the Holocaust (which isn’t even true) but then goes on and on about slavery and what happened in 1628 and 1722 and 1834 and….and…and…

I created this thread to show how long whites have got AA. Secondly you claimed nobody today is responsible for Jim Crow, when in fact people today are living who were alive during jim crown and people like you who were influenced or mentored by people alive during Jim Crow. You want to dismiss the black experience but we cannot ever forget what happened to Jews.

 

[Lisa558]

SAT scores were not dropped because they don't prove anything, but becuase they were a problem for the goals of diversity and inclusion.

Yes, and there was a dilemma with lowering the requirements to get enough blacks in to meet the pre-determined racial goal (which was 14% of the student body). At some point, one is forced to lower the cut-off (for blacks) to a prestigious program so far that the prestige and reputation of the school is endangered.

Howard University Law School pulled this shit at the other end - the graduating end. They were so eager to get more black lawyers out there that they discussed eliminating five classes from the program - classes that every other law school in the country required. They quickly changed their minds when they realized that “dumbing down” Howard this way would make it an inferior school, and the graduates having had their education at a weaker program.

 

[IM2]

You’re coming awfully close to calling me a racist, with “anti-black” this and “racially biased” that. This is Zone 1.

Let's look at the facts Lisa. Because your argument has no merit.

Undergraduate Admissions Tests​

Colleges have relied on the SAT and ACT despite limited predictive validity connected to educational outcomes and their inherent economic, gender, racial and cultural biases. Fortunately, the landscape has shifted to more holistic admissions practices. Learn about specific issues concerning the SAT and ACT as proponents attempt to modify their format and maintain their relevance.

Undergraduate Admissions Testing – Fairtest

fairtest.org

What does the SAT claim to measure?​

The SAT was designed to predict first-year college grades – it has not historically be researched reguarding or validated to predict grades beyond the freshman year. Little information exists about the relationship between the test and graduation rates, pursuit of a graduate degree, or for placement or advising purposes. This makes sense given that the further beyond the test predictions are made the more factors beyond the students knowledge or performance on a test are influencing those those outcomes.

SAT – Fairtest

fairtest.org

Does the SAT accurately predict success?​

If one looks beyond college grades, information from The Case Against the SAT by James Crouse and Dale Trusheim actually points to the SAT I’s poor utility in forecasting long-term success. Data they analyzed demonstrated that using the high school record alone to predict who would complete a bachelor’s degree resulted in “correct” admissions decisions 73.4% of the time, while using the SAT and high school GPA forecast “correct” admissions in 72.2% of the cases.
Further, according to research done by the tests’ manufacturers, high school grades on their own are consistently better predictors of college performance than the SAT. The combination of test and grades only add marginal increases to predictions of first year performance.

SAT – Fairtest

fairtest.org

What impact does the SAT have on educational equity?​

The SAT consistently under-predicts the performance of females in college and over-predicts the performance of males. Although females earn higher grades in high school and college, their SAT scores were 26 points lower in 2006. College Board research has shown that both the Critical Reading and Math portions of the test under-predict girls’ college performance. A 1994 ETS study found that, on average, males scored 33 points higher on the SAT-Math than females who earn the same grades in the same college math courses. Analyses of SAT gender bias cite several causes including the test’s emphasis on speed over sustained reasoning and its multiple-choice format. Mathematics tests in other countries that require solutions to long problems appeared unbiased with respect to gender.

African American, Latino, new Asian immigrant and many other minority test-takers score significantly lower than white students. Rigid use of SATs for admissions will produce freshman classes with very few minorities and with no appreciable gain in academic quality. The SATs are very effective at eliminating academically promising low-income and under-represented minority students who apply with strong academic records but relatively low SAT scores. Colleges that have made the SAT optional report that their applicant pools are more diverse and that there has been no drop off in academic quality.

SAT – Fairtest

fairtest.org

So according to you women are being admitted into college with lower scores than men. Using your argument, universities would be exclusively male and white.

How is the SAT misused?
Scholarships:
Several states impose SAT minimum score requirements on students hoping to qualify for taxpayer-funded scholarships. Using cut-off scores for such high-stakes decisions is a clear violation of not only the test-makers’ guidelines but also the joint standards for educational testing provided by the leading education (AERA), psychology (APA), and measurement (NCME) associations. This practice disproportionately impacts minority students who as a group tend to score lower than white students on the SAT. The result is these students lose out on millions of dollars in financial assistance.

National Merit Scholarships use Preliminary SAT scores as the sole criterion to select semifinalists. The resultant pool has historically been predominantly male because boys score higher on the PSAT even though girls earn higher grades in high school (and college). In 1993, FairTest filed a complaint with the Office for Civil Rights (OCR) charging the test-makers with illegally assisting gender bias. As part of a settlement with OCR, ETS and the College Board agreed to add a new multiple-choice “writing” component to the PSAT. This simple change in test format significantly increased the percentage of National Merit semifinalists who are female, but girls are still cheated out of a fair share of awards by bias in the unreformed portions of the exam.

Gifted and Talented Programs:
Many special programs for the “gifted and talented,” such as the Johns Hopkins Center for the Advancement of Academically Talented Youth, use the SAT or similar tests to select participants. Not surprisingly, girls and minorities are often underrepresented in these accelerated programs.

SAT – Fairtest

fairtest.org

So you see Lisa, your argument is a bunch of malarkey. And it's apparent what your argument is based on. There are now 1,700 colleges and universities who have made the ACT/SAT optional. So your argument based only on the SAT is worthless and should not be considered in any serious discussion of AA and/or college admissions.

 

[IM2]

Yes, and there was a dilemma with lowering the requirements to get enough blacks in to meet the pre-determined racial goal (which was 14% of the student body). At some point, one is forced to lower the cut-off (for blacks) to a prestigious program so far that the prestige and reputation of the school is endangered.

Howard University Law School pulled this shit at the other end - the graduating end. They were so eager to get more black lawyers out there that they discussed eliminating five classes from the program - classes that every other law school in the country required. They quickly changed their minds when they realized that “dumbing down” Howard this way would make it an inferior school, and the graduates having had their education at a weaker program.

There was no dilemma because test scores are not really all that is taken into account. Your argument in this regard is bs.

 

[BackAgain]

What's tiresome is the fact that white racism continues in 2022 and the people practicing it lie about how it's a thing of the past.

This thread was created to show just how long whites have been given affirmative action. Today the beneficiaries of 246 years of continuing affirmative action are complaining because others have been given the same affirmative action they have been getting for less than 60 years.

Yeah. Right. White Affirmative Action. That’s a thing.

 

[Meister]

What's tiresome is the fact that white racism continues in 2022 and the people practicing it lie about how it's a thing of the past.

This thread was created to show just how long whites have been given affirmative action. Today the beneficiaries of 246 years of continuing affirmative action are complaining because others have been given the same affirmative action they have been getting for less than 60 years.

I disagree with your premise.

 

[Meister]

Racism is defined in the dictionary and the definition does not say that racism is the description of what whites have done or the description of continuing white racism. What you call black racism is not racism by the definition of the word in the dictionary.

I disagree with your premise on this, also.
I know racism when I see it, IM2. I don't need your definition on this.

 

[Lisa558]

SAT scores were not dropped because they don't prove anything, but becuase they were a problem for the goals of diversity and inclusion.

Exactly! It’s the same reason that TJ High School dropped its entrance exam - not enough blacks were scoring high enough to get admitted, so voila! Eliminate the test!

The SAT, together with high school GPA, is the most predictive measure of future college performance. To disregard these measures, simply because it interferes with ”diversity” just sets up a student for frustration and makes it more likely he will drop out than if he had gone to a school where his metrics were “on par” with the average.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/national-sat-validity-study-overview-admissions-enrollment-leaders.pdf

 

[IM2]

I disagree with your premise on this, also.
I know racism when I see it, IM2. I don't need your definition on this.

What you disagree with is irrelevant. The dictionary defines racism, not me and it says this:

a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice

the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another

a political or social system founded on racism and designed to execute its principles

Definition of RACISM

a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race; also : behavior or attitudes that reflect and foster this belief : racial discrimination or prejudice… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Describing the systemic racism blacks have endured coming from whites is not included in this definition. And that's what you've been calling black racism. So when you can name me things blacks have done that is equivalent to everything whites have done to us and continue doing, come talk to me about black racism and unlike you, I will work to end it without making excuses.

 

[IM2]

I disagree with your premise.

Documented history doesn't, so you don't matter.

 

[IM2]

Yeah. Right. White Affirmative Action. That’s a thing.

It's been a thing since 1776.

 

[IM2]

Exactly! It’s the same reason that TJ High School dropped its entrance exam - not enough blacks were scoring high enough to get admitted, so voila! Eliminate the test!

The SAT, together with high school GPA, is the most predictive measure of future college performance. To disregard these measures, simply because it interferes with ”diversity” just sets up a student for frustration and makes it more likely he will drop out than if he had gone to a school where his metrics were “on par” with the average.

https://satsuite.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/national-sat-validity-study-overview-admissions-enrollment-leaders.pdf

Wrong. But Correll has the same issues you do. Nobody is dropping tests because blacks don't score high. 1,700 college and universities aren't making the test optional just to allow more blacks in.

 

[IM2]

Kingdoms of mud huts and dung heaps aren't very impressive to potential employers. Nor is submitting to slavery.

Whites were living in mud houses and straw roofed houses in Europe with sewage flowing through the cities. Remember that whites ran away from Europe because they could not make it.

 

[Orangecat]

Whites were living in mud houses and straw roofed houses in Europe with sewage flowing through the cities. Remember that whites ran away from Europe because they could not make it.

The difference being, whites made the greatest society on Earth while blacks squabbled and sold each other to slavers.
Don't respond with your usual drivel, that dog won't hunt here.

 

[IM2]

What do you mean how did he let the white man whip him? He was more than a dozen generations away from being born!

The same way he ran his mouth about us being kamgs. But you purposefully passed that.

 

[IM2]

Objectively false.


A malicious lie.

Everything I said is true.

 

[IM2]

It's funny how historically ignorant our high SAT scoring, high IQ, superior intelligence white right wingers are. Making black slavery legal wasn't Affirmative Action for whites. Jim Crow Apartheid wasn't Affirmative Action for whites. Nope, race-conscious policy was only invented when whites were forced to give blacks and people of color the same opportunities that whites had been giving themselves. Cognitive dissonance says that white is not a race, but everyone else is.

 

[BackAgain]

It's been a thing since 1776.

Yeah yeah. Suuuure. I recall now how Benjamin Franklin insisted on the White Affirmative Action Clause.

 

[Correll]

Wrong. But Correll has the same issues you do. Nobody is dropping tests because blacks don't score high. 1,700 college and universities aren't making the test optional just to allow more blacks in.

Sure they are.


Diversity, Representation, it's like a national mission. Every layer of government, every school, every sizable employer, has formally and regularly made it policy to increase "diversity" and blah, blah, blah.


Everyone who reads this, who has had a job or gone to school has had to listen to the idiotic mantra of their falculty or management droning on and on about it, over and over again.


Your denial of this just reveals to EVERYONE, that you are just plain wrong.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Everything I said is true.

Starting when?

Because I've read this thread, and obviously this hasn't been the case since the beginning, nor has it been the case since then until now.