There’s Big Money in Global Warming Alarmism

[Stephanie]

I am sure there'd be big money in nearly anything that threaten our species. Asteroids, a new black death event or even another world war.

it is the way it works.

Global warming is not threatening our species

too bad it's not threatening some Globull warmers into extinction.

 

[Old Rocks]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169534703000934

Abstract
The biggest mass extinction of the past 600 million years (My), the end-Permian event (251 My ago), witnessed the loss of as much as 95% of all species on Earth. Key questions for biologists concern what combination of environmental changes could possibly have had such a devastating effect, the scale and pattern of species loss, and the nature of the recovery. New studies on dating the event, contemporary volcanic activity, and the anatomy of the environmental crisis have changed our perspectives dramatically in the past five years. Evidence on causation is equivocal, with support for either an asteroid impact or mass volcanism, but the latter seems most probable. The extinction model involves global warming by 6°C and huge input of light carbon into the ocean-atmosphere system from the eruptions, but especially from gas hydrates, leading to an ever-worsening positive-feedback loop, the ‘runaway greenhouse’.

As one gets closer to the present date, the articles emphasize the warming far more than the cooling periods.

"EXTINCTION MODEL". Do you even bother to read the shit you post? Like I said there is ZERO empirical data to support warming as a cause. There is ample evidence to show glaciation as a cause.

Abstract
High-resolution oxygen isotope records document the timing and magnitude of global warming across the Permian-Triassic (P-Tr) boundary. Oxygen isotope ratios measured on phosphate-bound oxygen in conodont apatite from the Meishan and Shangsi sections (South China) decrease by 2‰ in the latest Permian, translating into low-latitude surface water warming of 8 °C. The oxygen isotope shift coincides with the negative shift in carbon isotope ratios of carbonates, suggesting that the addition of isotopically light carbon to the ocean-atmosphere system by Siberian Traps volcanism and related processes resulted in higher greenhouse gas levels and global warming. The major temperature rise started immediately before the main extinction phase, with maximum and harmful temperatures documented in the latest Permian (Meishan: bed 27). The coincidence of climate warming and the main pulse of extinction suggest that global warming was one of the causes of the collapse of the marine and terrestrial ecosystems. In addition, very warm climate conditions in the Early Triassic may have played a major role in the delayed recovery in the aftermath of the Permian-Triassic crisis.

Climate warming in the latest Permian and the Permian–Triassic mass extinction

But of course you choose to ignore that study.

 

[Old Rocks]

Odd that almost all the geologists that I have talked to about the PT extinction have said just the opposite. Yes, short duration cooling events, but the worst was the extreme warming from outgassing of CO2 from the Siberian Traps, and outgassing of the methane clathrates, and methane produced from the basalts on coal beds.

http://www.rpgroup.caltech.edu/courses/Evolution_GIST_2013/files_2013/articles/Saunders, Reichow - 2009 - The Siberian Traps and the End-Permian mass extinction a critical review.pdf

The Siberian Traps and the End-Permian mass extinction: a critical review Andy SAUNDERS† & Marc REICHOW Department of Geological Sciences, University of Leicester, Leicester, LE1 7RH, United Kingdom The association between the Siberian Traps, the largest continental flood basalt province, and the largest-known mass extinction event at the end of the Permian period, has been strengthened by recently-published high-precision 40Ar/39Ar dates from widespread localities across the Siberian province[1]. We argue that the impact of the volcanism was amplified by the prevailing late Permian environmental conditions―in particular, the hothouse climate, with sluggish oceanic circulation, that was leading to widespread oceanic anoxia. Volcanism released large masses of sulphate aerosols and carbon dioxide, the former triggering short-duration volcanic winters, the latter leading to long-term warming. Whilst the mass of CO2 released from individual eruptions was small compared with the total mass of carbon in the atmosphere-ocean system, the long ‘mean lifetime’ of atmospheric CO2, compared with the eruption flux and duration, meant that significant accumulation could occur over periods of 105 years. Compromise of the carbon sequestration systems (by curtailment of photosynthesis, destruction of biomass, and warming and acidification of the oceans) probably led to rapid atmospheric CO2 build-up, warming, and shallow-water anoxia, leading ultimately to mass extinction.

Caltech has a pretty good reputation.

Sulphate aerosols reduce the temperature. There is ample evidence of glaciation. There is no evidence for warming however. There are merely computer models. Yes, Caltech has a great rep (and it's my Alma-mater), that doesn't mean they don't get shit scientists there though.

In other words, anybody who disagrees with you is a shit scientist. About 99% of the scientists in the world.

Climate warming in the latest Permian and the Permian–Triassic mass extinction

Climate warming in the latest Permian and the Permian–Triassic mass extinction

1. Michael M. Joachimski1,
2. Xulong Lai2,3,
3. Shuzhong Shen4,
4. Haishui Jiang2,
5. Genming Luo2,
6. Bo Chen1,
7. Jun Chen4 and
8. Yadong Sun2

+Author Affiliations

1. 1GeoZentrum Nordbayern, University Erlangen-Nuremberg, Schlossgarten 5, 91054 Erlangen, Germany
2. 2Faculty of Earth Sciences, China University of Geosciences, Wuhan, Hubei 430074, China
3. 3State Key Laboratory of Biogeology and Environmental Geology, China University of Geosciences, Wuhan, Hubei 430074, China
4. 4State Key Laboratory of Palaeobiology and Stratigraphy, Nanjing Institute of Geology and Palaeontology, 39 East Beijing Road, Nanjing 210008, China

Abstract
High-resolution oxygen isotope records document the timing and magnitude of global warming across the Permian-Triassic (P-Tr) boundary. Oxygen isotope ratios measured on phosphate-bound oxygen in conodont apatite from the Meishan and Shangsi sections (South China) decrease by 2‰ in the latest Permian, translating into low-latitude surface water warming of 8 °C. The oxygen isotope shift coincides with the negative shift in carbon isotope ratios of carbonates, suggesting that the addition of isotopically light carbon to the ocean-atmosphere system by Siberian Traps volcanism and related processes resulted in higher greenhouse gas levels and global warming. The major temperature rise started immediately before the main extinction phase, with maximum and harmful temperatures documented in the latest Permian (Meishan: bed 27). The coincidence of climate warming and the main pulse of extinction suggest that global warming was one of the causes of the collapse of the marine and terrestrial ecosystems. In addition, very warm climate conditions in the Early Triassic may have played a major role in the delayed recovery in the aftermath of the Permian-Triassic crisis.

What's hilarious is the global temp of the planet has been significantly higher for 75% of its history. The PETM which we have a good paleo record of, shows beyond doubt that warmth is beneficial to terrestrial life. Like I said, no one knows what caused the mass extinction but there are glacial striations all over the world that date to that period. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever that shows warming killed anything. This study is merely the latest in a long effort to vilify CO2 even though all evidence we have shows it to be beneficial. And that meme of 99% of all scientists is just that, a meme, and a lie.

There you have it, folks. The fellow that cannot present his ideas in front of other scientists, now claims to be smarter than 99% of them. When I see you make a presentation at the fall AGU Conference, I will have some respect for you. Until then, you are just another internet poster.

Wow, you really don't know how to discuss anything without lying do you. Pretty sad for someone who claims to be 72. Funny that your first minimum wage job paid 2 something an hour when my first minimum wage job paid 80 cents, and you're supposedly two years older than me.... Best get your facts straight there charlie...

Buddy boy, never in my life have I made minimum wages.

 

[leftwinger]

And that is differant from a business conferance in what way?

First of all they are all not scientist, dumber than bag of rocks for most of them. Secondly, what part of giant recession did you miss? They wasted millions of dollars per day each on giant boondoggle vacation. Normal Americans had to pay for that crap. Waste Waste Waste. BHO has done it 8 years. Golf Vacation Fundraiser..........if you don't see it or think it OK then?

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Blast from the past Memo exposes Bush's new green strategy

The US Republican party is changing tactics on the environment, avoiding "frightening" phrases such as global warming, after a confidential party memo warned that it is the domestic issue on which George Bush is most vulnerable.

The memo, by the leading Republican consultant Frank Luntz, concedes the party has "lost the environmental communications battle" and urges its politicians to encourage the public in the view that there is no scientific consensus on the dangers of greenhouse gases.

"The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science," Mr Luntz writes in the memo, obtained by the Environmental Working Group, a Washington-based campaigning organisation.

"Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly.

"Therefore, you need to continue to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate."

UK weather forecasters predict warmest winter solstice on record
Published: 5:38 AM 74

 

[Stephanie]

And that is differant from a business conferance in what way?

First of all they are all not scientist, dumber than bag of rocks for most of them. Secondly, what part of giant recession did you miss? They wasted millions of dollars per day each on giant boondoggle vacation. Normal Americans had to pay for that crap. Waste Waste Waste. BHO has done it 8 years. Golf Vacation Fundraiser..........if you don't see it or think it OK then?

I wanted to put all four smileys for the post. but it won't let us.
. this federal government is out of control with OUR MONEY. Grants for this grants for that. any shyster can get a grant it seems without a problem

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
$1,659,692,160,956

 

[Crick]

[snip]
BHO has done it 8 years. Golf Vacation Fundraiser..........if you don't see it or think it OK then?

I wanted to put all four smileys for the post. but it won't let us.
. this federal government is out of control with OUR MONEY. Grants for this grants for that. any shyster can get a grant it seems without a problem

From FactCheck.org:

Q: Is it true that George W. Bush took more vacation days than Barack Obama?

A: Yes. Before his two-week trip to Martha’s Vineyard in August, Obama’s count was 125 full or partial days and Bush’s total at the same point in his presidency was 407.

 

[leftwinger]

Cost of War in Iraq & Afghanistan
$1,659,692,160,956

We did not want that either. We did not get any say. They won't let them fight to win. That crap should have been mopped up in 90 days. The military cost $2B/day to wait around. How much extra to add work over there? you say $1.7T over 15 years? Not impossible.

And they have all these bombs and weapons stored (shelf life?) use em' or lose em'

 

[leftwinger]

Yes. Before his two-week trip to Martha’s Vineyard in August, Obama’s count was 125 full or partial days and Bush’s total at the same point in his presidency was 407.

Flying off to work for weeks at a time in Texas at your own home (or Camp David) costs zip compared to a giant entourage jetting around few times a week all over the planet! Hardly a Vacation.

You can't spin this one. Get off it. Did you see "what" went to Paris? It was posted in here. We not stupid.

 

[Crick]

125 > 407 ? ? ?

"We not stupid" ? ? ?

Got it ! ! !

 

[Crick]

The only evidence for that is in computer models

There is significant evidence that the most likely cause of the PT extinction event - the largest in Earth's history - was a dramatic rise in CO2.

No, there isn't. It exists only in a "simple" (their word, not mine) computer model.

What exists? Whose words?

 

[Wyatt earp]

125 > 407 ? ? ?

"We not stupid" ? ? ?

Got it ! ! !

Miles from Dc to Texas = 1,500 miles

Miles from DC to camp David= 56 miles

Miles from DC to Martha Vineyards= 500 miles



Miles from DC to Hawaii = 5,000 miles

Cost of jet fuel 2012= $2.00 a gallon

 

[Crick]

407 * 1500 = 610,500 miles

125 * 5000 = 625,000 miles

Gosh, after 7 years in office, he's got a 15,000 mile lead over Bush. But, hey, he didn't start a needless trillion dollar, 100s of thousands dead war in Iraq, did he.

 

[leftwinger]

407 * 1500 = 610,500 miles

125 * 5000 = 625,000 miles

Gosh, after 7 years in office, he's got a 15,000 mile lead over Bush. But, hey, he didn't start a needless trillion dollar, 100s of thousands dead war in Iraq, did he.

You are ignoring facts. Staying at expensive hotel for 100-500 persons costs a bundle. Considering "he" takes up an entire floor at about $5K/night/room + all the others scattered about. During his 8 years this is weekly, Biden Hillary Kerry and all do similar. too many think massive waste is OK.

give it a rest. Your Spin don't win.

 

[westwall]

One side is spending money on research and mitigation measure. The other side is spending money on lobbying and PR.

And I disagree with your numbers. Over 583 million has been spent in the last decade funding AGW deniers spew. The portion of government AGW spending going to lobbying and PR is microscopic.

so what.

"What" is that the oil companies are spending an enormous amount of money to push the idea that climate science is uncertain or false and that taking action will destroy economies and cost jobs. The reason they do so is simple and obvious: survival. The money the world's governments are spending is financing research, new power and transportation technologies and mitigation measures. Which action do you believe is more beneficial to mankind as a whole. If you're not a complete fool, you will answer the latter.

you aren't you going to tell us all these years the oil companies hasn't being doing any research how to IMPROVE things with oil.

The oil companies primary research thrust has always been to find more oil and turn it into salable gasoline and other products at the minimum possible cost. They are a for-profit corporation with a responsibility to their stockholders to do nothing but. I'm sure along the way they have spent some of their hundreds of billions of dollars profit on humanitarian, pro-ecological, pro-wildlife and pro-environmental projects. Has that accomplished anything meaningful with regards to global warming? No. And now we have learned that their own scientists informed Exxon's management no later than the early 1980s that they believed CO2 emissions from burning their fuel would cause dangerous global warming. What was their response? Did they make that public? Did they warn government agencies? Did they finance research into higher mileage cars, more efficient power plants, sequestration technology? No, they financed deniers in a massive disinformation campaign. So, no, Stephanie, I am NOT going to tell you that the oil companies did "research on how to IMPROVE things with oil".

why can't you warmers use you windmills, electric cars etc and leave the people who want to us oil alone.

You've asked this question in various forms on several occasions. The answer is always the same. We all use the same atmosphere Stephanie. You don't get to foul our air and overheat our climate because you're ignorant and lazy and you don't get to benefit from our efforts, sacrifices and outlays without chipping in your share. We are all in the same boat. We all have to pay the piper.

you have force yourselves on other by all this the sky is falling. that's just shady

Were you drinking when you wrote this Stephanie; or very tired? Your syntax and grammar are poor. I have never been able to understand how someone could suspect thousands of scientists all (and I do mean ALL) lying and putting their very careers at risk for the sake of money and yet not have the slightest suspicion that the fossil fuel industries whose very existence, much less their profits, are directly and irrevocably threatened by the effort to reduce GHG emissions. How can you possibly believe that they wouldn't do SOMETHING to prevent being put out of business?

you know what. then stop replying to me if that's all you are about. we all breath the same atmosphere. what a load of BS. you're not only greedy and full of crap making money by fear mongering. You "warmer" are bullies and control freaks. .. and you aren't just a snob but an insufferable horses ass to boot. go to hell

HAHAHAHAHaaa....Pathetic Stephanie. Absolutely pathetic. This is a discussion board. If you don't want to hear responses like this one, then YOU should stop posting here.

The overwhelming evidence of thousands of published, peer reviewed scientific studies is that global warming is real and its primary cause is human CO2 emissions and deforestation. That warming presents a real threat to our children for generations to come. That's not fear mongering Stephanie, it's a fucking statement of fact. The oil companies have long ago admitted that they were financing deniers in a disinformation campaign precisely like that waged by "Intelligent Design" folks against evolution taught in public schools and the tobacco industry against public health. That there are fools like you out there that still claim to believe its all a hoax, that climate scientists in a breathtaking display of unity have been making all of this up for years and years without a single one over confessing to the crime is one of the great amazements of our time.

No, the consensus of computer derived fiction reports, produced by people who use those reports to generate their funding claim that man is the cause. There is NO SCIENCE that supports that claim however. Learn the difference jackass.

 

[westwall]

As in extinction? Probably not. But, then, no one said it was. That would be what you call a red herring. Air and water pollution didn't threaten our species. Warfare doesn't threaten our species. We'd probably survive a full out nuclear holocaust... in some form or another.

Got anything real?

Poor crick, you get caught lying all the time don't you... Here you go, here are just a few of your claims telling us that "MAN IS DOOMED, DOOMED I TELL YA! BOW TO THE MASTERS LEST YE BE DESTROYED BY THE WRATH OF GOD!" Or some such bullshit...

You clowns are just the latest in a long line of loons wearing sandwich boards screaming that the end of the world is nigh.



Earth Will Survive Global Warming, But Will We?

Earth Will Survive Global Warming, But Will We?

The Great Debate
A child born today may live to see humanity’s end, unless…
A child born today may live to see humanity’s end, unless…

Climate change will alter the Earth. But it could destroy humanity

Climate change will alter the Earth. But it could destroy humanity

 

[CrusaderFrank]

PV Solar Could Have Some Serious Competition | OilPrice.com

Though power markets came first for big trough arrays, it is worth noting that large scale thermal only applications are coming on line. The most impressive may be the massive 1 GW thermal (GW) enhanced oil recovery (EOR) project in Oman, Saudi Arabia’s neighbor, being built by a company called Glasspoint.

The recent Renewable Energy World article on this project explains: “At an astonishing 1,021 megawatts, Miraah is almost three times the capacity of Ivanpah, which at 377 MW is currently the world's largest CSP project delivering electricity. Yet not only will Miraah (mirror in Arabic) produce steam at gigantic scale, but it does so at much lower cost than CSP and about half the cost of gas. The 1 GW project will cost a mere $600 million.”

Another way to crunch that number is to say it costs 60 cents per Watt. Though the Watts are thermal and not electric, that price is in line with the ‘China price’ of PV cells, which still need to be set in place, connected to an inverter, and then hooked up to the grid. Utility PV in the U.S. is coming in at just under $2 per Watt now, but developers, planners and dreamers alike should be aware that a trough, that will produce steam for 50 years, using a rudimentary steel pipe, costs about the same as the inverters alone for a power project. Inverters do not last 50 years so you must pay for the replacement units.

More than one way to skin a cat.

Need a whole lot of cat skinning subsidy dollars with oil below $35

 

[skookerasbil]

To me, the most fascinating thing to watch on this forum is the consistent level of naïve from the religion who think this is about the science. Mamooth and Mathew come to mind instantly.


But then we have the hard core progressives in here who know exceedingly well whats going on.........they are well schooled in the strategies of treasonous cowards like Saul Alinksy. When you can find covert ways to tax the middle class into submission, the state gains more power. These shitforbrains were romanced by nutters like Plato, Hobbes and More.......the utopian societies. Asshats never realized these dolts never applied economics ( nor did Marx) to their works.......f'ing duh. For these fucks, much is at stake and the goal is the ultimate collapse of the capitalistic system. These people are miserable because their own fucked up personal life decisions have left them down on the totem pole and the system is to blame, thus, the hatred for their own country.

Accordingly, this forum has become my own personal playground to instruct the curious on the level of phony/cluelessness of these miserable people.......and as anybody who sees my posts, I have a hoot full of fun doing it. As Ive said many times........you just have to watch the anger and misery that is concurrent with many of the posts of the AGW k00ks. They have spent thousands of hours posting up their nonsense and have virtually ZERO to show for it!!

Not one of these assholes in here have yet to be able to display a SINGLE link showing messageboard members where the science is mattering in the real world!!!

 

[Crick]

407 * 1500 = 610,500 miles

125 * 5000 = 625,000 miles

Gosh, after 7 years in office, he's got a 15,000 mile lead over Bush. But, hey, he didn't start a needless trillion dollar, 100s of thousands dead war in Iraq, did he.

You are ignoring facts. Staying at expensive hotel for 100-500 persons costs a bundle. Considering "he" takes up an entire floor at about $5K/night/room + all the others scattered about. During his 8 years this is weekly, Biden Hillary Kerry and all do similar. too many think massive waste is OK.

give it a rest. Your Spin don't win.

My spin? Bush more than 3x as many vacation days, yet you still cling to the idea that Obama is some vacation hog. Pathetic