Zone1 This is Probably Biggest Difference of all Between Catholic and Protestant Bibles

[Meriweather]

Your straw man died last week.

Shrug. It was you who brought your straw man to the party today. At least you admitted he had already been dead for a week.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Shrug. It was you who brought your straw man to the party today. At least you admitted he had already been dead for a week.

And now you deflect.

Stop defending the indefensible. You'll feel better.

 

[forkintheroad7]

When you encounter Catholics and tell them their Church isn't TRUE, you can't expect an enthusiastic reception.

And even if I knew what you know, it wouldn't change my mind. The acts of sinful men, even the Pope, can't change that the Catholic Church is the true church.

You don't get it. There is the TRUE Catholic Church, living on in the Sedevacantist communities and there is the FALSE church in the Vatican. Do you really think the coming anti-Christ will not need that building to take over? There are sincere Catholics in the novus ordo sect but many churches have been taken over by non-Catholic and anti-Catholic groups.

Again, I am the only one here who knows about the events of the last 60 years in the Church. But I think it is important for all Catholics to know this.. that Pius XII ws likely murdered so evil-doers could take over a Church they'd been plotting to take over for centuries..

If that doesn't interest Catholics...

?

 

[Meriweather]

And now you deflect.

No...I was spot on, and you had no better response.

 

[Jarlaxle]

No...I was spot on, and you had no better response.

And now you lie. Stop defending the indefensible. You'll feel better.

You don't get it. There is the TRUE Catholic Church, living on in the Sedevacantist communities and there is the FALSE church in the Vatican. Do you really think the coming anti-Christ will not need that building to take over? There are sincere Catholics in the novus ordo sect but many churches have been taken over by non-Catholic and anti-Catholic groups.

Again, I am the only one here who knows about the events of the last 60 years in the Church. But I think it is important for all Catholics to know this.. that Pius XII ws likely murdered so evil-doers could take over a Church they'd been plotting to take over for centuries..

If that doesn't interest Catholics...

?

Put away the tinfoil hat-Pius XII was 82, in poor health (for years), had a stroke, and then pneumonia.

 

[hadit]

Well, you spelled the word incorrectly (it is Penance) but in any case, I'm not sure the point you're making. I agree it involves restitution. If you steal, give back what you stole. If you can't do that for some reason, you can offer prayers for the person ripped off and sacrifice something you like (ice cream on Sunday or what have you) in reparation for your sin. One of my favorite (true) saints is St Benedict Labre who.. well, I can't think of another saint who sacrificed so much.. in fact, he sacrificed his whole life living as a homeless person. I tend think he went to extremes, certainly did things I can't see myself doing, but no one can say he didn't give up the world and the flesh.. have often wondered how his fight w/ the devil went..

But the real question is, did he give up enough that he could demand that God accept him on the strength of his efforts?

 

[forkintheroad7]

So it's OKAY for you to attack the Catholic Church but NOT okay for me to defend it?

I don't play by your rules, buddy.

I'm the true Catholic. Those in the novus ordo are deceived

 

[Woodznutz]

Protestant Bibles have St Luke 13:3 speaking of repentance. The Catholic Bible uses the term doing penance. In the most reliable version of the Bible, the Douay Rheims, Jesus says

"Unless you do penance, you will all perish [in Hell]"

The Protestant Bibles just says "Unless you repent..."

So we see how it DOES make a big difference whether you are Catholic or Protestant.

Repenting is just the first step toward getting to Heaven. Doing penance means doing things that make up for the bad you've done.. and accepting sufferings as chastisement for sins.. you hit your thumb on a hammer.. you can offer that up to God in expiation of your serious sins. Someone on the internet is rude to you, ditto.. you can offer it to God in atonement for your sins.. (you will have no end of penances there!).. car breaks down.. ditto.

Then once you exhaust (or think you've exhausted) the list of your own sins, you can tackle the sins of others. The Virgin Mary appeared @ Fatima 1917 and told the children (and all of us) to offer sufferings for souls in mortal sin--on their way to Hell-- so that they will repent and not end up there.

Sounds like a never-ending unforgiven guilt trip. I like repent better as it is supported by scripture and the Greek meaning of the word. Also, God forgives upon repentance. Penance really means that one trying to earn God's forgiveness.

 

[Meriweather]

Penance really means that one trying to earn God's forgiveness.

Wrong.

 

[Woodznutz]

Wrong.

Penance is like trying to repay a debt, a debt that was paid for already by someone else.

 

[Meriweather]

Penance is like trying to repay a debt, a debt that was paid for already by someone else.

Again, wrong.

For Catholics, that is. Is that why you do penance?

 

[Woodznutz]

Again, wrong.

For Catholics, that is. Is that why you do penance?

I don't do penance.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't do penance.

How did you become an expert on it then?

 

[Woodznutz]

How did you become an expert on it then?

I did a word study. Words have specific meanings.

Jesus said "Go and sin no more" (repent). He didn't say to do penance over the sin. However, if one wants to do penance that's ok too if that's your thing.

 

[Meriweather]

I did a word study. Words have specific meanings.

According to Webster, yes, but in Catholic practice, it is not self-punishment, or any kind of punishment. It is a venture into a deeper grace. Webster also gives a definition of a novel. I know that definition. Doesn't mean I know enough to actually write one, let alone a good one.

 

[Woodznutz]

According to Webster, yes, but in Catholic practice, it is not self-punishment, or any kind of punishment. It is a venture into a deeper grace. Webster also gives a definition of a novel. I know that definition. Doesn't mean I know enough to actually write one, let alone a good one.

I went directly to the Greek dictionary, then to how it is used in the Bible. The context is always repent, never penance.

 

[Meriweather]

I went directly to the Greek dictionary, then to how it is used in the Bible. The context is always repent, never penance.

Repentance means to turn from disobedience to obedience. Penance is an act of obedience, of turning from disobedience to discerning and following the will of God. Instead of continuing to do what self wants, it is an act of doing what God wants/wills. Penitential prayers ask for God's help, give praise and thanksgiving for God's grace in future efforts to live according to His way and His will.

 

[Woodznutz]

Repentance means to turn from disobedience to obedience. Penance is an act of obedience, of turning from disobedience to discerning and following the will of God. Instead of continuing to do what self wants, it is an act of doing what God wants/wills. Penitential prayers ask for God's help, give praise and thanksgiving for God's grace in future efforts to live according to His way and His will.

Methinks you are redefining penance. Penance means making up for all the wrongs you've done.

 

[Meriweather]

Methinks you are redefining penance. Penance means making up for all the wrongs you've done.

Okay. You know best, of course, having done so much penance yourself.

 

[Picaro]

I did a word study. Words have specific meanings.

Jesus said "Go and sin no more" (repent). He didn't say to do penance over the sin. However, if one wants to do penance that's ok too if that's your thing.

The Vatican got corrupted by the 12th century; by Luther's time they concocted a scheme to extort fees from people for 'penances', to pay back Fugger for his giant loans to the Church. The only real Catholics left by Luther's time were the monastics and scholars. The Banker Popes pretty much ruined the upper level leadership, dominated by moneylenders and the non-inheriting off-spring of nobility, all far more interested in plundering their benefices than religion, hence the Reformation.