Thoughts on the CDC hiding their 2.4 million defensive gun use research...

[Brain357]

There are 24 hours in the day, podjos, and if you divide that silly ass number by, you get about 6560 "defensive draws" a day for 365 days throughout throughout the country.

Think it through.

All of these researchers not only thought it through, they created studies to research it...and this is what they actually found.....not what you pulled out of your ass...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And the results are so accurate they are plus or minus 3 million? Funny how all the numbers are different.

 

[2aguy]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Brain357]

They are not.

The number, if it is accurate (imo, it's not) is attributable to the cops pulling guns 275 times every hour.

I don't see that as "defensive gun use".

I suspect that it goes something like this:

Rwnj sees scary looking guy walking down the street.

Walks past scary guy without making eye contact.

Thinks "good thing I had my pistol on me, no telling what might have happened".

Viola! Defensive gun use number one for the day!

Lots of drug dealers defending their stash... most are not lawful.

Wrong....and you know it....Kleck specifically addressed this stupid point long ago and you have seen it...... the crime he talked about was carrying a gun without a permit in the 90s when the concealed carry movement was just starting.....

No question asked if it was a lawful defense. Kleck knows most are not lawful.
The reason these things don’t make the news is because the defender is often a criminal. If you have proof they are by those not involved in criminal activity please share.

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

 

[2aguy]

There are 24 hours in the day, podjos, and if you divide that silly ass number by, you get about 6560 "defensive draws" a day for 365 days throughout throughout the country.

Think it through.

All of these researchers not only thought it through, they created studies to research it...and this is what they actually found.....not what you pulled out of your ass...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And the results are so accurate they are plus or minus 3 million? Funny how all the numbers are different.

No dipshit....or is it shit stain.....what all of this research shows is that gun self defense is more common than gun murder...that normal Americans use their guns to save their own lives more than criminals use them to take lives....42 years of research......and you have to lie about it...

 

[Brain357]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So crime went down after we got background checks. Now with comcealed carry at its height, violent crime is up.

 

[Brain357]

There are 24 hours in the day, podjos, and if you divide that silly ass number by, you get about 6560 "defensive draws" a day for 365 days throughout throughout the country.

Think it through.

All of these researchers not only thought it through, they created studies to research it...and this is what they actually found.....not what you pulled out of your ass...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

And the results are so accurate they are plus or minus 3 million? Funny how all the numbers are different.

No dipshit....or is it shit stain.....what all of this research shows is that gun self defense is more common than gun murder...that normal Americans use their guns to save their own lives more than criminals use them to take lives....42 years of research......and you have to lie about it...

It shows how not accurate they are. Plus or minus 3 million? Funny.

 

[2aguy]

I don't see that as "defensive gun use".

I suspect that it goes something like this:

Rwnj sees scary looking guy walking down the street.

Walks past scary guy without making eye contact.

Thinks "good thing I had my pistol on me, no telling what might have happened".

Viola! Defensive gun use number one for the day!

Lots of drug dealers defending their stash... most are not lawful.

Wrong....and you know it....Kleck specifically addressed this stupid point long ago and you have seen it...... the crime he talked about was carrying a gun without a permit in the 90s when the concealed carry movement was just starting.....

No question asked if it was a lawful defense. Kleck knows most are not lawful.
The reason these things don’t make the news is because the defender is often a criminal. If you have proof they are by those not involved in criminal activity please share.

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

 

[2aguy]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So crime went down after we got background checks. Now with comcealed carry at its height, violent crime is up.

You just keep lying...you are a troll.

 

[Brain357]

Lots of drug dealers defending their stash... most are not lawful.

Wrong....and you know it....Kleck specifically addressed this stupid point long ago and you have seen it...... the crime he talked about was carrying a gun without a permit in the 90s when the concealed carry movement was just starting.....

No question asked if it was a lawful defense. Kleck knows most are not lawful.
The reason these things don’t make the news is because the defender is often a criminal. If you have proof they are by those not involved in criminal activity please share.

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

I didn’t say they were committing a crime at the time of defense. I said they are involved in criminal activity. The drug dealer wasn’t using the gun to sell drugs, but used it to defend his stash.

 

[Brain357]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So crime went down after we got background checks. Now with comcealed carry at its height, violent crime is up.

You just keep lying...you are a troll.

The numbers don’t lie, crime started dropping after background checks. Violent crime is up with more concealed carry. Fact.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong....and you know it....Kleck specifically addressed this stupid point long ago and you have seen it...... the crime he talked about was carrying a gun without a permit in the 90s when the concealed carry movement was just starting.....

No question asked if it was a lawful defense. Kleck knows most are not lawful.
The reason these things don’t make the news is because the defender is often a criminal. If you have proof they are by those not involved in criminal activity please share.

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

I didn’t say they were committing a crime at the time of defense. I said they are involved in criminal activity. The drug dealer wasn’t using the gun to sell drugs, but used it to defend his stash.

You must have missed what Kleck actually stated...here, let me repeat it...

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender

 

[2aguy]

2aguy is pulling stuff out of his ass.

There are no document 6500 gun defenses a day.

Hmmm. . . are they averaging bad guys' defending themselves maybe.

Wow....you are parroting brains talking point....you really are a stupid moron.....

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So crime went down after we got background checks. Now with comcealed carry at its height, violent crime is up.

You just keep lying...you are a troll.

The numbers don’t lie, crime started dropping after background checks. Violent crime is up with more concealed carry. Fact.

Wrong....criminals don't go through background checks you moron.....they use people who can pass background checks and still get the guns..... and they steal guns......which doesn't require any background check... you moron....

 

[Brain357]

No question asked if it was a lawful defense. Kleck knows most are not lawful.
The reason these things don’t make the news is because the defender is often a criminal. If you have proof they are by those not involved in criminal activity please share.

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

I didn’t say they were committing a crime at the time of defense. I said they are involved in criminal activity. The drug dealer wasn’t using the gun to sell drugs, but used it to defend his stash.

You must have missed what Kleck actually stated...here, let me repeat it...

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender

Nothing in there says the defender was not a gang member. Sorry.

 

[Brain357]

Surprisingly imaginary gun defenses don’t lower crime:

FBI: Violent crime increases for second straight year

Except when you lie about it..... you know because you have been shown over and over that the Ferguson Effect counts for the increase from 2016 gun murder rates in democrat cities...where cops no longer do proactive policing.....while actual experience from the 1990s to today show that gun crime has gone down,


We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

So crime went down after we got background checks. Now with comcealed carry at its height, violent crime is up.

You just keep lying...you are a troll.

The numbers don’t lie, crime started dropping after background checks. Violent crime is up with more concealed carry. Fact.

Wrong....criminals don't go through background checks you moron.....they use people who can pass background checks and still get the guns..... and they steal guns......which doesn't require any background check... you moron....

No the numbers back me up. Stop lying.

 

[2aguy]

And you pulled that out of your ass, you are lying again...you have been shown exactly what Kleck said in response to this and you keep lying.....

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

I didn’t say they were committing a crime at the time of defense. I said they are involved in criminal activity. The drug dealer wasn’t using the gun to sell drugs, but used it to defend his stash.

You must have missed what Kleck actually stated...here, let me repeat it...

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender

Nothing in there says the defender was not a gang member. Sorry.

Yeah......except for what Kleck states..... you could email him and ask him yourself..... he is more than happy to answer stupid questions from stupid people like you....

 

[JakeStarkey]

There are no documented 6500 gun defenses a day.

Why 2aguy?

Kleck is disproven material.

 

[2aguy]

There are no documented 6500 gun defenses a day.

Why 2aguy?

Kleck is disproven material.

If it was just Kleck you might have a point, his wasn't the first study, his wasn't the last study, and both the Department of Justice and the Centers for disease control tried to show he was wrong....what did they find with the studies they created and executed to prove him wrong.....since he was an anti gunner and they were anti gunners...?

Department of Justice.... 1.5 million defensive gun uses...

Centers for Disease Control.... 2.4 million defensive gun uses.

And those are just 3 studies.....there are 13 others.....from both private and public researchers with anti gunners running a good portion of them.....

You try focusing on Kleck because he is the one everyone knows...but keep letting me post all the other ones...I appreciate it...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million each of those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

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Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


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Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

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If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[JakeStarkey]

2aguy can post anything he wants all day if he wants, and none of that answers the question.

 

[Brain357]

If you have proof they are not involved in criminal activity please post.

I have, over and over again......you lie about it, you will lie about it again...

Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth

In order for a survey respondent to report a typical DGU, she or he must be willing to report all three of the following elements of the event: (1) a crime victimization experience, (2) his or her possession of a gun, and (3) his or her own commission of a crime.

The last element is relevant because most DGUs occur away from the user’s home, and only about 1 percent of the population in 1993, when we conducted our survey, had a permit that allowed them to legally carry a gun through public spaces.

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender.

I didn’t say they were committing a crime at the time of defense. I said they are involved in criminal activity. The drug dealer wasn’t using the gun to sell drugs, but used it to defend his stash.

You must have missed what Kleck actually stated...here, let me repeat it...

Thus, although survey-reported defensive gun uses themselves rarely involve criminal behavior (that is, the defender did not use the gun to commit a criminal assault or other offense), most (at least back in 1993) involved unlawful possession of a gun in a public place by the defender

Nothing in there says the defender was not a gang member. Sorry.

Yeah......except for what Kleck states..... you could email him and ask him yourself..... he is more than happy to answer stupid questions from stupid people like you....

Nothing he is saying excludes a drug dealer defending his stash from gang members. Work on your comprehension.