Time for the US to abolish the Death Penalty

[YoungRepublican]

90% of the world no longer uses the Death Penalty

The US is among a lustrious group that continues to execute prisoners. That group includes China, Iran, Iraq, N Korea and Saudi Arabia......Something all Americans can be proud of

Use of capital punishment by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I came into this thread hoping to find a well though out argument opposing the death penalty, instead I find drivel. If this is the best that liberals and progressives can come up with to challenge the most reprehensible thing the state does in the name of its citizens it is no wonder that the US still has the death penalty.

What would you say to my argument then? im looking for a little debate here, dont just ignore the facts.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Like it or not, Capital Punishment is considered to be barbaric in most of the civilized world. The fact that only countries like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq believe in eye for an eye retribution says a lot about our morals

Even in the US 18 states have abolished the death penalty and most of our executions occur in Texas and Oklahoma. The remaining executions are distributed in what is affectionately known as Bible Belt states.

Executions are an archaic practice that do not reflect well on a great country

Go hide under your bed, leave the arguments against the death penalty to people that can actually articulate a logical reason for abolishing it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We shouldn't ban something just to be like other countries.

We said the same thing about slavery

We were one of the last nations to abolish that too

There are some really bad people who deserve the death penalty though.

I fully agree. In fact, I will state that anyone who does not have a better dead list is living in a fantasy land. That does not change the fact that I do not want my government to kill anyone just because someone, even if it is me, thinks they deserve it. It is immoral and reprehensible, and makes all of us into murderers who do not deserve the protections of the law.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

^ I appreciate seeing High G casually dismembering the faux argument of rightwinger.

It is not like rightwinger actually presented an argument, all he did was say something he thought would score him points with the progressive crowd. He must have said something that lost him some of his cred as a lefty again.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The death penalty is a 100% deterrent to recidivism.

So is chopping off both the hands of thieves, that doesn't make either of them something I think the government should do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We said the same thing about slavery

We were one of the last nations to abolish that too

Another idiotic comparison I see.

It all comes down to morality.

By 1860, most of the world had abandoned the institution of slavery. The US fought to maintain it, led by the same "Bible Belt" states that still cling to Capital Punishment

History repeats itself

New York is a Bible Belt state? They fought long and hard, and managed to reinstate the death penalty in 2005. To be fair, they were pretty reluctant to free their slaves, so you might have a point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We also execute retards and an occasional innocent man

it takes forever to execute someone in this country anyway on top of the risk of executing innocents ... prisons need to be scaled down to much more uncomfortable facilities

The US is paying to keep too many fucking people in prison. We don't have money for roads or bridges but we cough up money for prisons

Obama literally has the power to set everyone in prison in this country free, yet he refuses to do so. Think about that for a while before you start griping about how we cannot repair the roads and bridges.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We have 2 really bad stains on us as a country,capital punishment is one of them,and should go. There is no place in a civilized world for capital punishment.

That's the kind of sentiment that emboldens criminals and causes the taxpayers of this country to have to continually pay for building and operating more jails and prisons and the people to man them. The criminals aren't afraid of getting caught because even if they do, when they go to jail they'll have better accommodations than they could provide on their own if they had to get out and work for a living.
Whatever we do, let's not discourage the criminals. They deserve the most 'civilized' of our behavior.

We have more people in prison than any other nation AND we have Capital punishment. Obviously, our criminal justice system is not working

That would depend on what it is designed to do, wouldn't it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I agree that many minor drug offense offenders should not be in prison but prisons are also much too accommodating.

Is that your personal observation?

correct ... just because you are surrounded by pieces of shits of society doesn't mean you are living like shit.

Try it sometime, it ain't nearly as nice as you think it is.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

90% of the world no longer uses the Death Penalty

The US is among a lustrious group that continues to execute prisoners. That group includes China, Iran, Iraq, N Korea and Saudi Arabia......Something all Americans can be proud of

Use of capital punishment by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I came into this thread hoping to find a well though out argument opposing the death penalty, instead I find drivel. If this is the best that liberals and progressives can come up with to challenge the most reprehensible thing the state does in the name of its citizens it is no wonder that the US still has the death penalty.

What would you say to my argument then? im looking for a little debate here, dont just ignore the facts.

The fact is I could be half asleep and articulate a better argument against the death penalty than you have.

• The entire purpose of the courts is to make it hard to convict people. That is not the problem, the problem is that they have forgotten that, and now think they are there to make it easier to do so.
• Pointing out the people that have been released from death row just reinforces the impression that the system doesn't make mistakes, what you need to do is concentrate on the people who have been killed who are innocent. I suggest you look up the story of Carlos DeLuna.
• When you start talking about the inefficiency of the death penalty you start inspiring people to limit the appeals process, and end up with courts that rule against a defendant because his lawyer missed a filing deadline. If you oppose the death penalty you should be demanding that the courts become more inefficient and that they allow filings that are late or that raise new issues.
• Money is always a good argument to use against a fiscal conservative. Convince them with cold hard cash that it is actually less expensive to feed a guy for 60 years than to kill him and he will drop support for the death penalty in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that doesn't work on anyone else, so only use it when you know it when you know it will work, or someone makes the absurd claim that it saves money to kill people.

I have stood up in front of church groups that preached an eye for an eye and argued against the death penalty, I see no reason to argue for it just to teach you how to debate. Go find a church and argue with them they will pull your arguments apart and teach you to argue effectively.

 

[YoungRepublican]

I came into this thread hoping to find a well though out argument opposing the death penalty, instead I find drivel. If this is the best that liberals and progressives can come up with to challenge the most reprehensible thing the state does in the name of its citizens it is no wonder that the US still has the death penalty.

What would you say to my argument then? im looking for a little debate here, dont just ignore the facts.

The fact is I could be half asleep and articulate a better argument against the death penalty than you have.

• The entire purpose of the courts is to make it hard to convict people. That is not the problem, the problem is that they have forgotten that, and now think they are there to make it easier to do so.
• Pointing out the people that have been released from death row just reinforces the impression that the system doesn't make mistakes, what you need to do is concentrate on the people who have been killed who are innocent. I suggest you look up the story of Carlos DeLuna.
• When you start talking about the inefficiency of the death penalty you start inspiring people to limit the appeals process, and end up with courts that rule against a defendant because his lawyer missed a filing deadline. If you oppose the death penalty you should be demanding that the courts become more inefficient and that they allow filings that are late or that raise new issues.
• Money is always a good argument to use against a fiscal conservative. Convince them with cold hard cash that it is actually less expensive to feed a guy for 60 years than to kill him and he will drop support for the death penalty in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that doesn't work on anyone else, so only use it when you know it when you know it will work, or someone makes the absurd claim that it saves money to kill people.

I have stood up in front of church groups that preached an eye for an eye and argued against the death penalty, I see no reason to argue for it just to teach you how to debate. Go find a church and argue with them they will pull your arguments apart and teach you to argue effectively.

No need to be a dick about it... it doesnt take a 5th year to argue the death penalty pal. Youre nothing special because you stood up to Old Bertha and told her that the death penalty is pointless. Wanna argue it? we can have it out right here, but no need to become uncivil so soon. This is just foreplay.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What would you say to my argument then? im looking for a little debate here, dont just ignore the facts.

The fact is I could be half asleep and articulate a better argument against the death penalty than you have.

• The entire purpose of the courts is to make it hard to convict people. That is not the problem, the problem is that they have forgotten that, and now think they are there to make it easier to do so.
• Pointing out the people that have been released from death row just reinforces the impression that the system doesn't make mistakes, what you need to do is concentrate on the people who have been killed who are innocent. I suggest you look up the story of Carlos DeLuna.
• When you start talking about the inefficiency of the death penalty you start inspiring people to limit the appeals process, and end up with courts that rule against a defendant because his lawyer missed a filing deadline. If you oppose the death penalty you should be demanding that the courts become more inefficient and that they allow filings that are late or that raise new issues.
• Money is always a good argument to use against a fiscal conservative. Convince them with cold hard cash that it is actually less expensive to feed a guy for 60 years than to kill him and he will drop support for the death penalty in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, that doesn't work on anyone else, so only use it when you know it when you know it will work, or someone makes the absurd claim that it saves money to kill people.

I have stood up in front of church groups that preached an eye for an eye and argued against the death penalty, I see no reason to argue for it just to teach you how to debate. Go find a church and argue with them they will pull your arguments apart and teach you to argue effectively.

No need to be a dick about it... it doesnt take a 5th year to argue the death penalty pal. Youre nothing special because you stood up to Old Bertha and told her that the death penalty is pointless. Wanna argue it? we can have it out right here, but no need to become uncivil so soon. This is just foreplay.

Stop whining and grow a pair. Argument is using the force of rhetoric to make a point, and I enjoy it. Civility is for pussies who can't handle the truth. I never said I was special, just that your arguments are pathetic.

By the way, Old Bertha would tear you a new one if you tried to argue about the death penalty with you, and come back with Bible verses, personal anecdotes about her son getting gunned down on the street, and statistics to prove that the death penalty deters crime. You aren't ready to handle her if you can't handle me pointing out how absurd your arguments are.

 

[Papawx3]

We said the same thing about slavery

We were one of the last nations to abolish that too

There are some really bad people who deserve the death penalty though.

I fully agree. In fact, I will state that anyone who does not have a better dead list is living in a fantasy land. That does not change the fact that I do not want my government to kill anyone just because someone, even if it is me, thinks they deserve it. It is immoral and reprehensible, and makes all of us into murderers who do not deserve the protections of the law.

Fwiw, those people who are on death row have been tried by a jury of their peers in a court of law for crimes that have been deemed by law to be punishable by death. In those cases, the juries have recommended the death penalty and the presiding judges have handed down the appropriate sentence. So to rebut your argument: While it is true the government runs the prisons and will be carrying out the executions, it is not 'the government' per se that is killing them. It is the legislative branch of the government that passed the death penalty through it's procedures. It is the executive branch of government that actually signed it into law. Lastly, it is the judicial branch, coupled with a jury of citizens from that community, that tried and convicted them and sentenced them to die.
So before you go spouting off about not wanting your government to kill someone, think about what it has taken to put those laws on the books in the first place, and what the person who received that sentence has been convicted of doing to put him/herself in their spot on death row.

 

[Esmeralda]

90% of the world no longer uses the Death Penalty

The US is among a lustrious group that continues to execute prisoners. That group includes China, Iran, Iraq, N Korea and Saudi Arabia......Something all Americans can be proud of

Use of capital punishment by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree with you completely. All modern, industrialized, first world nations except the US have abolished the death penalty. We have all indication it does not deter crime. It is only a matter of revenge. It creates, imo, a more violent culture overall, that as well as the quantity and quality of fireams in this country. And the amount of military force we use all over the world. We've become the poster child for a violent society.

 

[Esmeralda]

90% of the world no longer uses the Death Penalty

Irrelevant

The US is among a lustrious group that continues to execute prisoners. That group includes China, Iran, Iraq, N Korea and Saudi Arabia......Something all Americans can be proud of

Again, irrelevant.

The only problem with the death penalty is that we don't use it nearly enough.

 

[Papawx3]

Next, and I will direct this also to "Statism", the death penalty does not make us into murderers. The definition of murder is: "The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." Considering the that the death penalty is a combination of the Legislative, Executive and Judicial branches of the government AND a jury of citizens that deemed that punishment to be appropriate, the lawful execution of a person IS NOT murder.

 

[Esmeralda]

Move to one of the other 90 percent of countries please.

America, love it or leave it? There's an original argument.

 

[Esmeralda]

Like it or not, Capital Punishment is considered to be barbaric in most of the civilized world. The fact that only countries like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq believe in eye for an eye retribution says a lot about our morals

Even in the US 18 states have abolished the death penalty and most of our executions occur in Texas and Oklahoma. The remaining executions are distributed in what is affectionately known as Bible Belt states.

Executions are an archaic practice that do not reflect well on a great country

then again, they don't have out of control crime like we do

Does anyone see the irony here?

 

[jtpr312]

No, we need to impliment it more often and far quicker. We need to ban scum sitting on death row, sucking up millions of dollars of the tax payer's money in worthless appeals for 10, 20yrs or longer and make the system go from conviction to execution in the same day.

 

[NoNukes]

90% of the world no longer uses the Death Penalty

The US is among a lustrious group that continues to execute prisoners. That group includes China, Iran, Iraq, N Korea and Saudi Arabia......Something all Americans can be proud of

Use of capital punishment by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In order to join the EU, you cannot have the capital punishment.