TN, 5 Others States Introduce Bills To Prohibit Teaching Evolution

[Toro]

This is sooooooo bogus.

Is there anyone else besides religious people who put this stuff forward?

This has nothing to do with science. It has everything to do with religion. The people who put this stuff forward are not interested in scientific discovery. They are interested in demolishing alternative theories about how the world came about that contradict their own theories about the beginning of mankind.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Your public HS has a class on Mythology? That's odd.

There's one that goes through a number of pantheons and one that runs down monster myth.

Kinda cool actually. I learned about Greek, Roman (same as Greek, just different names), Norse, Bysintine, etc in Catholic HS.

Well, no learning is a bad thing, Two Thumbs. But in schools where we can't get kids to read or do math above a 4th grade level, a class on Mythology seems like gilding the lily.

If it's an elective, I guess I have no beef with it. It is interesting.

it's an elective. If it was required, I wouldn't post it in such a kind fashion.

Kids not learning beyond 4th grade is on the parents.

 

[Two Thumbs]

There's one that goes through a number of pantheons and one that runs down monster myth.

Kinda cool actually. I learned about Greek, Roman (same as Greek, just different names), Norse, Bysintine, etc in Catholic HS.

Well, no learning is a bad thing, Two Thumbs. But in schools where we can't get kids to read or do math above a 4th grade level, a class on Mythology seems like gilding the lily.

If it's an elective, I guess I have no beef with it. It is interesting.

I, for one, have no problems with teaching the bible in our schools alongside other mythology

same here.

And it would be awesome to watch people go batshitcrazy as the bible got pulled out.

 

[rdean]

Exactly.

My 7 y.o. son comes home telling me which animals today came from which dinosaurs.

And he's not talking about things like crocs and white sharks; he's being taught that warm blooded furry creatures have descended straight from brontosauri (brontosauruses??? lol). I don't think his teacher believes that; but she's teaching a curriculum and that's the curriculum. We're in a charter school, with a natural resources focus, that works hand in hand with a PALEO project in this area. PALEO...they dig up bones around here. They want to make it a tourist trade. They want to join with the school to do it.

Literally. They want to make a big Paleo/School complex where the kids go to school in the same geographical site that the Paleo operates. They want to share funds, participate in the school.

While I am proud of the beauty and interest of our geographic location and like having the paleo project here; it is endlessly fascinating and fun; I don't want my child being taught things that are MEANT to challenge their faith. I know the guy who runs the Paleo. I know what his agenda is. I have heard him opine on the concept of God. I don't want his agenda taught to the kids. His agenda is to *educate* kids out of faith, and that is NOT the job of the schools.

you are so "right". Schools are there to keep 'em fucking stupid.

 

[blu]

 

[Sheldon]

Which part of "freedom of religion" or "separation of church and state" is confusing to you, Joe?

You want to believe the Earth is 5,000 years old and teach your child that, fine by me. But WTF gives you any right to teach that nonsense to MY child?

Maddie,

Likewise, what gives the school the right to teach my child (if I had any) that a Scientific THEORY called Evolution is the only acceptable version of how the world came to be?

Personally, I like what the high school in my hometown did..... They taught the THEORY (unproven, scientific belief) and also included a small bit of curriculum documenting that there are other THEORIES out there which are contridictory to the THEORY of Evolution relative to how the world and humanity came to be.

My problem is when you have these school systems teaching Evolution as SCIENTIFIC LAW instead of THEORY.

Because scientific FACTS support the theory. Just like they support the THEORY of gravity

Which scientific FACTS do you have to support the THEORY of creationism?

Are you OK with schools teaching there are no scientific facts supporting creationism? How about that scientific FACTS do not support the Bible?

Just to be a nitpicking douche, gravity is also a law.

Force = (mass of one thing x mass of other thing/distance between both masses, squared) constant

Every. Time.

It's ALSO a theory because we don't know for sure HOW it works, we just know that it does.

 

[Sheldon]

Why is Creationism/ID even put on a competitive pedestal next to evolution? (Don't answer that)

There's mountains of corroborating evidence to support evolution. C/IS has... what? There's just as much proof that my farts create mini-universes.

There's a substantive difference between a theory and a hypothesis. I even hesitate to call C/ID a hypothesis, because that means it could be tested through the scientific method. But there's no way to falsify it. So if it's not even a falsifiable hypothesis, how could it possibly be a valid idur to introduce into the science classroom? Derp!

 

[rdean]

Why is Creationism/ID even put on a competitive pedestal next to evolution? (Don't answer that)

There's mountains of corroborating evidence to support evolution. C/IS has... what? There's just as much proof that my farts create mini-universes.

There's a substantive difference between a theory and a hypothesis. I even hesitate to call C/ID a hypothesis, because that means it could be tested through the scientific method. But there's no way to falsify it. So if it's not even a falsifiable hypothesis, how could it possibly be a valid idur to introduce into the science classroom? Derp!

All theories based in mysticism are equally valid. The reason is because they can't be "disproved". For instance, we all know the center of the moon is made from edible and soft gooey cheese dip. No one can prove otherwise, so it must be true. This is how science works for the right wing. Now, the truth is they get very angry that someone is comparing the validity of "Samson", whose magical strength was in his dreadlocks, to the center of moon being made from soft, gooey cheese. Both are equally likely to be true.

 

[del]

House Bill 368 (PDF), introduced in the Tennessee House of Representatives on February 9, 2011, is the sixth antievolution bill introduced in a state legislature in 2011, and the first introduced in Tennessee since 2007. The bill, if enacted, would require state and local educational authorities to "assist teachers to find effective ways to present the science curriculum as it addresses scientific controversies" and permit teachers to "help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught."

The only examples provided of "controversial" theories are "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning." The sole sponsor of HB 368 is Bill Dunn (R-District 16), who, according to Project Vote Smart, answered yes to the question “Should Tennessee require its public schools to teach evolution as theory rather than scientific fact?” in 1996 — the same year in which the Tennessee legislature considered a bill (SB 3229/HB 2972) that would have provided for the suspension or dismissal of any teacher or administrator who taught evolution as a fact rather than a theory.

Antievolution legislation in Tennessee | NCSE

So, this used car dealer knows enough to prohibit teaching certain aspects of science? No wonder this nation continues to fall behind others on the level of science mastery of its students.

Legally required stupidity...what will they think of next?

Your reaction?

non existent. i'm sure loons file bills all the time.

 

[Nosmo King]

Why is Creationism/ID even put on a competitive pedestal next to evolution? (Don't answer that)

There's mountains of corroborating evidence to support evolution. C/IS has... what? There's just as much proof that my farts create mini-universes.

There's a substantive difference between a theory and a hypothesis. I even hesitate to call C/ID a hypothesis, because that means it could be tested through the scientific method. But there's no way to falsify it. So if it's not even a falsifiable hypothesis, how could it possibly be a valid idur to introduce into the science classroom? Derp!

All theories based in mysticism are equally valid. The reason is because they can't be "disproved". For instance, we all know the center of the moon is made from edible and soft gooey cheese dip. No one can prove otherwise, so it must be true. This is how science works for the right wing. Now, the truth is they get very angry that someone is comparing the validity of "Samson", whose magical strength was in his dreadlocks, to the center of moon being made from soft, gooey cheese. Both are equally likely to be true.

Science to the right wing isn't necessarily a matter of believing based on faith alone. The right wing further disclaims science once science shows that the damage mankind does will cost money to remediate. This is where they determined that science can be called "junk science".

Ask a right winger what should be done about hazardous waste sometime. They will look at the budget and, if it cuts into profit, they will say that hazardous waste was called hazardous based on "junk science".

 

[Old Rocks]

I think the combination of believing in global warming and thinking man is his own god does more to bastardise the "level of science mastery". If you weren't so closed minded, you would see that evolution exists even with the inclusion of intelligent design. Maybe liberals should had reached across the aisle and showed some tolerance in allowing the mentioning of intelligent design in class. Had this been done, I feel that it is safe to say that this bill wouldn't exist. After all, without God, you have no rights.

That was settled in court. ID is simply creationism dressed in pseudoscience.

 

[Old Rocks]

Which part of "freedom of religion" or "separation of church and state" is confusing to you, Joe?

You want to believe the Earth is 5,000 years old and teach your child that, fine by me. But WTF gives you any right to teach that nonsense to MY child?

Maddie,

Likewise, what gives the school the right to teach my child (if I had any) that a Scientific THEORY called Evolution is the only acceptable version of how the world came to be?

Personally, I like what the high school in my hometown did..... They taught the THEORY (unproven, scientific belief) and also included a small bit of curriculum documenting that there are other THEORIES out there which are contridictory to the THEORY of Evolution relative to how the world and humanity came to be.

My problem is when you have these school systems teaching Evolution as SCIENTIFIC LAW instead of THEORY.

Every overarching explanation of a major natural phenomonem is a theory. From the Theory of Gravity to the Theory of Relitivity.

There has been no other satisfactory explanation of life on earth that meets the definition of a theory other than evolution. The mythologies of the various religions simply don't count.

Scientific theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Echoing the scientific philosopher Karl Popper, Stephen Hawking in A Brief History of Time states, "A theory is a good theory if it satisfies two requirements: It must accurately describe a large class of observations on the basis of a model that contains only a few arbitrary elements, and it must make definite predictions about the results of future observations." He goes on to state, "Any physical theory is always provisional, in the sense that it is only a hypothesis; you can never prove it. No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict the theory. On the other hand, you can disprove a theory by finding even a single observation that disagrees with the predictions of the theory." The "unprovable but falsifiable" nature of theories is a necessary consequence of using inductive logic.

 

[Old Rocks]

Exactly.

My 7 y.o. son comes home telling me which animals today came from which dinosaurs.

And he's not talking about things like crocs and white sharks; he's being taught that warm blooded furry creatures have descended straight from brontosauri (brontosauruses??? lol). I don't think his teacher believes that; but she's teaching a curriculum and that's the curriculum. We're in a charter school, with a natural resources focus, that works hand in hand with a PALEO project in this area. PALEO...they dig up bones around here. They want to make it a tourist trade. They want to join with the school to do it.

Literally. They want to make a big Paleo/School complex where the kids go to school in the same geographical site that the Paleo operates. They want to share funds, participate in the school.

While I am proud of the beauty and interest of our geographic location and like having the paleo project here; it is endlessly fascinating and fun; I don't want my child being taught things that are MEANT to challenge their faith. I know the guy who runs the Paleo. I know what his agenda is. I have heard him opine on the concept of God. I don't want his agenda taught to the kids. His agenda is to *educate* kids out of faith, and that is NOT the job of the schools.

Now I can believe that you might think that we evolved directly from dinosaurs, I cannot believe a teacher that has had any biology would state that. Therapsid reptiles are likely our ancestral line.

Well Allie, the whole damned world challenges the faith of those that take the Bible literally.

 

[Old Rocks]

I wonder if the science teachers will teach the kids today that the hubble took pictures of what LOOKS to be an alien spaceship and how many children are encouraged to consider that possibility...compared to the number of teachers who will say the pictures LOOK LIKE a cross and let the kids ponder that? I mean...is an alien space ship more *scientific* than a cross?

Lol...

Getting real ridiculous there, old girl.

 

[Old Rocks]

still waiting for evidence of past "anti-intellectual" movements.

Funny.

astronomy. - the retreat of the church after its victory over galileo.

lol!!!!

 

[Old Rocks]

One such form of religious instruction is to teach -- in a science class! -- that God exists.

And another is to stand up in front of that same class and openly declare that you have a Scientific THEORY that indicates God does not exist.

As for separation of church and state, the constitution is as the SCOTUS says it is. Dun like that? Then you must also be offended at constitutional provisions creating the Judiciary and checks and balances.

Can't have that both ways, Anachronism.

Um..... NO!!!

The Constitution is what is written in black and white upon those 8 pages. I am very much offended by ANY FORM of Judicial activism regardless of the level of the Court; and I VERY OFTEN find the Supreme Court to be completely and totally WRONG.

The source of the Seperation of Church and State is the Danbury letter by Thomas Jefferson, and he states the grounds for it are in the Constitution.

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.

 

[8537]

Which part of "freedom of religion" or "separation of church and state" is confusing to you, Joe?

You want to believe the Earth is 5,000 years old and teach your child that, fine by me. But WTF gives you any right to teach that nonsense to MY child?

Maddie,

Likewise, what gives the school the right to teach my child (if I had any) that a Scientific THEORY called Evolution is the only acceptable version of how the world came to be?

Personally, I like what the high school in my hometown did..... They taught the THEORY (unproven, scientific belief) and also included a small bit of curriculum documenting that there are other THEORIES out there which are contridictory to the THEORY of Evolution relative to how the world and humanity came to be.

My problem is when you have these school systems teaching Evolution as SCIENTIFIC LAW instead of THEORY.

Do you get upset when your local school teaches the theory of gravity? Germ theory?

 

[bodecea]

House Bill 368 (PDF), introduced in the Tennessee House of Representatives on February 9, 2011, is the sixth antievolution bill introduced in a state legislature in 2011, and the first introduced in Tennessee since 2007. The bill, if enacted, would require state and local educational authorities to "assist teachers to find effective ways to present the science curriculum as it addresses scientific controversies" and permit teachers to "help students understand, analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories covered in the course being taught."

The only examples provided of "controversial" theories are "biological evolution, the chemical origins of life, global warming, and human cloning." The sole sponsor of HB 368 is Bill Dunn (R-District 16), who, according to Project Vote Smart, answered yes to the question “Should Tennessee require its public schools to teach evolution as theory rather than scientific fact?” in 1996 — the same year in which the Tennessee legislature considered a bill (SB 3229/HB 2972) that would have provided for the suspension or dismissal of any teacher or administrator who taught evolution as a fact rather than a theory.

Antievolution legislation in Tennessee | NCSE

So, this used car dealer knows enough to prohibit teaching certain aspects of science? No wonder this nation continues to fall behind others on the level of science mastery of its students.

Legally required stupidity...what will they think of next?

Your reaction?

LOL....they never got over the Scopes Monkey Trial.

 

[bodecea]

The conflict arises when retarded teachers insist on teaching evolution as a theory which explains the existence of life on earth, and when they treat some theories of descent as *fact*.

Our education system is crap. I was just saying today that I find it offensive that VALENTINE'S DAY is such a huge issue at the school...the kids are hyped up for weeks over it; while I see the inherent usefulness of learning to address and distribute cards (I guess) to your classmates, that, on TOP of the stupid sugar blow out in the afternoon, makes me just want to pull them out and homeschool them. Except I can't teach kids for crap. Still, I'm dreading tonight. And this morning was a nightmare.

So we spend all this energy on VALENTINE'S DAY but the educators can't educate themselves and the kids properly about evolution and it's place in the world. They have to make it into this big deal that explains away all religious theory, and that's just wrong. It's not the place of our schools to teach that, and if that's what they're going to insist on teaching, then guess what? They are going to be shut down and prevented from saying anything about it at all.

Morons.

Wait...you are saying that Valentine's Day is a SCHOOL INITIATED activity?

 

[8537]

By the way, if any teacher does this:

"Quote: Originally Posted by AllieBaba
The conflict arises when retarded teachers insist on teaching evolution as a theory which explains the existence of life on earth, and when they treat some theories of descent as *fact*.

and teaches that evolution explains the existence of life on earth they should probably be fired - not because teaching evolution is wrong, but because evolution doesn't offer a theory as to the origins and existence of life on earth.