To those saying flipping burgers or dunking fries deserves 15.00 per hour...

[JoeB131]

Yes I have, we have a number of fast food places/home improvement/retail stores that have these kiosks/self checkouts in them. Quite simple to use, one employee overseeing the checkouts verse 4 that would have been required to man the registers.

We had the self checkouts at Jewel-Osco here in Chicago... but they get rid of them and replaced them with "express lanes" with a real human and a limit of 15 items where no one seems to be able to count to 15.

 

[JoeB131]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

 

[Humorme]

I came onto this thread to discuss the indefensible attitude that some people have toward paying their employees a realistic wage. I dare not say fair wage, minimum wage, and am even cautious about saying livable wage.

This issue is not about right versus left; it is about right versus wrong. When we have poseurs wanting to get personal, but lacking the brains to have a civil discussion nor the balls to back up their bloviating bullshit, then the conversation must be considered over.

Oh, the discussion aint' over yet. A rational response to your "proposal" which you THINK should be an obvious solution to safety nets and welfare is that --- making folks COMFORTABLE in endangered menial jobs is actually immoral and has some very obvious NEGATIVE consequences to the long term welfare of the people involved in your altruistic spending of other people's money..

It's immoral, because you are simply promoting THE JOB and not THE PERSON. By making them comfortable in jobs subject to extinction thru technology, automation or transformation to the web. The focus should be on WHO is ELIGIBLE for inflated wage jobs at the very bottom of the work force. IMO -- only folks who are currently pursuing continuing or higher education should be eligible for min wage jobs. With some exceptions for seniors and the mentally challenged. THAT WAY -- they have a trajectory in the workforce pyramid. A GED would qualify. As would vocational training or comm. College.

Lots of unintended SEVERE negative consequences to promoting jobs to "living wage". Inner city drop-out rates are embarrassing and atrocious. Most of the kids want OUT of their crappy home life and to leave abusive situations. If you dangle $15/hr to flip burgers in front of them -- you're dooming MORE OF THEM to a life of disenfranchisement from market labor. Schools wouldn't be able to KEEP them inside their doors.

That's not progress on "ending slavery".. That's a boat ride directly into slavery. Although I dread using your slavery analogy at all.

. You seem to be of the impression that giving workers a cost of living wage somehow will destroy them, but is that a realistic way of looking at what would actually happen or is it just a form of protectionism or made up excuses in order to stop the bottom from having any increases at all, and especially while stuck in a job or circumstance in their life that doesn't allow them to leave that job. ?? Is this all due to the circumstances that might be beyond ones control in their special set of circumstances yet they are punished for their circumstances in life or exploited for them ?? At what point does their work ethic and etc. play a part ??

I told you WHY a living wage is NOT an efficient substitute for welfare and safety nets. I was ULTRA clear about those points. It's not in any way "an excuse". It's how things work.

I also told you the horrendous consequences of TRYING to stem the awful HS rates while dangling a $15/hr wage in front of them. There are MANY awful side efffects that haven't hit the common man discussions of this topic.

Break-dancing or gang-banging thru HS is not ME exploiting their bad decisions. I offered a new definition of Min Wage job that REQUIRES continuing education of some type. I also noted that the Public Schools have literally PURGED all the vocational, internship training as well as Arts and Music. This also has bearing on RETAINING students thru graduation. It's the bare minimum and going barer all the time. Making GETTING your GED a CONDITION of Min Wage employment does something about this..

Employers are free to require a high school diploma as a prerequisite to getting even a minimum wage job. Those employers should hire people with or without a high school diploma and be told, up front, that there is an expectation that the employee will be required to further their education as a condition of continued employment.

Again, the government could assist in giving incentives to employers who provide employment to those who are working to better themselves.

 

[Humorme]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

In that case, if a CEO can go to another country and make more money due to this cap on wages, how do we attract the best CEOs?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

 

[flacaltenn]

I came onto this thread to discuss the indefensible attitude that some people have toward paying their employees a realistic wage. I dare not say fair wage, minimum wage, and am even cautious about saying livable wage.

This issue is not about right versus left; it is about right versus wrong. When we have poseurs wanting to get personal, but lacking the brains to have a civil discussion nor the balls to back up their bloviating bullshit, then the conversation must be considered over.

Oh, the discussion aint' over yet. A rational response to your "proposal" which you THINK should be an obvious solution to safety nets and welfare is that --- making folks COMFORTABLE in endangered menial jobs is actually immoral and has some very obvious NEGATIVE consequences to the long term welfare of the people involved in your altruistic spending of other people's money..

It's immoral, because you are simply promoting THE JOB and not THE PERSON. By making them comfortable in jobs subject to extinction thru technology, automation or transformation to the web. The focus should be on WHO is ELIGIBLE for inflated wage jobs at the very bottom of the work force. IMO -- only folks who are currently pursuing continuing or higher education should be eligible for min wage jobs. With some exceptions for seniors and the mentally challenged. THAT WAY -- they have a trajectory in the workforce pyramid. A GED would qualify. As would vocational training or comm. College.

Lots of unintended SEVERE negative consequences to promoting jobs to "living wage". Inner city drop-out rates are embarrassing and atrocious. Most of the kids want OUT of their crappy home life and to leave abusive situations. If you dangle $15/hr to flip burgers in front of them -- you're dooming MORE OF THEM to a life of disenfranchisement from market labor. Schools wouldn't be able to KEEP them inside their doors.

That's not progress on "ending slavery".. That's a boat ride directly into slavery. Although I dread using your slavery analogy at all.

. You seem to be of the impression that giving workers a cost of living wage somehow will destroy them, but is that a realistic way of looking at what would actually happen or is it just a form of protectionism or made up excuses in order to stop the bottom from having any increases at all, and especially while stuck in a job or circumstance in their life that doesn't allow them to leave that job. ?? Is this all due to the circumstances that might be beyond ones control in their special set of circumstances yet they are punished for their circumstances in life or exploited for them ?? At what point does their work ethic and etc. play a part ??

I told you WHY a living wage is NOT an efficient substitute for welfare and safety nets. I was ULTRA clear about those points. It's not in any way "an excuse". It's how things work.

I also told you the horrendous consequences of TRYING to stem the awful HS rates while dangling a $15/hr wage in front of them. There are MANY awful side efffects that haven't hit the common man discussions of this topic.

Break-dancing or gang-banging thru HS is not ME exploiting their bad decisions. I offered a new definition of Min Wage job that REQUIRES continuing education of some type. I also noted that the Public Schools have literally PURGED all the vocational, internship training as well as Arts and Music. This also has bearing on RETAINING students thru graduation. It's the bare minimum and going barer all the time. Making GETTING your GED a CONDITION of Min Wage employment does something about this..

Employers are free to require a high school diploma as a prerequisite to getting even a minimum wage job. Those employers should hire people with or without a high school diploma and be told, up front, that there is an expectation that the employee will be required to further their education as a condition of continued employment.

Again, the government could assist in giving incentives to employers who provide employment to those who are working to better themselves.

To make that WORK and not be voluntary, there needs to be a prohibition on hiring most folks into a Min Wage that is NOT pursuing some form of continuing education. They would be required to continue that education as a condition of employment there for some period of time after their wage rises above the minimum..

 

[francoHFW]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

 

[JoeB131]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Never gonna happen, nor should it.

If you want a job where your pay is controlled by the government then get a government job.

Or maybe we can decide what every job is worth and tell everyone how much they can make. Let's see what you get for cutting and pasting resumes then.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

 

[francoHFW]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

So feel free to move to any or every other country and stop your fucking whining.

And quite frankly I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck what the GOP does so you can stop whining about them too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

I wonder what Joe would earn if we got to vote on what his skills are worth.

 

[francoHFW]

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

So feel free to move to any or every other country and stop your fucking whining.

And quite frankly I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck what the GOP does so you can stop whining about them too.

I'm not going anywhere a******... Only Republicans the silly Dupes believe that is some kind of argument brainwashed functional morons... You don't care about the GOP? You just repeat all of their talking points and stupid insults and vote for them no doubt what

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

Democracy is doing what the voters want, dingbat. And no we're not talking about texting people like you more just the richest. But nice Pavlov dog reaction, dupe.

 

[francoHFW]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

So feel free to move to any or every other country and stop your fucking whining.

And quite frankly I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck what the GOP does so you can stop whining about them too.

I'm not going anywhere a******... Only Republicans the silly Dupes believe that is some kind of argument brainwashed functional morons... You don't care about the GOP? You just repeat all of their talking points and stupid insults and vote for them no doubt what

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

Democracy is doing what the voters want, dingbat. And no we're not talking about texting people like you more just the richest. But nice Pavlov dog reaction, dupe.

Because we need investments in the middle class and the country...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You do know that the top 1% don't get their money from a paycheck don't you?

And I hate to tell you this but not all skills are equal. Putting burgers and fires into paper bags is not a skill that is worth 6 figures

No, it's not.

And running your corporation into the ground isn't a skill that's worth 8 figures, but we still do that.

So here's an idea. The CEO can only make a multiple of what his lowest paid employee makes.

So if the lowest paid person is only making minimum wage, the most you can pay the CEO is 50 times that.

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

Your comment shows you know nothing about wealthy people or the economy. What do you suppose the rich do when Uncle Sam comes to take their money away--open their wallets and bank accounts freely?

And why is it you socialists are so hung-up on CEO's? Let me ask: what do you think a star actresses hair stylist or make-up person makes compared to her? What do you suppose the guy selling popcorn at the stadium makes compared to the starting pitcher at a baseball game? What do you think a roady makes compared to the guitarist in a famous band? Bet you never boycotted or complained about any of those people.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

So feel free to move to any or every other country and stop your fucking whining.

And quite frankly I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck what the GOP does so you can stop whining about them too.

I'm not going anywhere a******... Only Republicans the silly Dupes believe that is some kind of argument brainwashed functional morons... You don't care about the GOP? You just repeat all of their talking points and stupid insults and vote for them no doubt what

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

Democracy is doing what the voters want, dingbat. And no we're not talking about texting people like you more just the richest. But nice Pavlov dog reaction, dupe.

You are so fucking miserable because you a fucking failure that you covet other people's money. You're so fucking pathetic that you constantly whine about how fucking good it is in all these other countries but you don't have the balls to move there and get what you perceive to be a better life than you have here.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Democracy is doing what the voters want, dingbat. And no we're not talking about texting people like you more just the richest. But nice Pavlov dog reaction, dupe.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yep, it's just Grand for the country that CEOs get paid two three four hundred times as much as average workers now when the number was 40 times when Reagan started. The only way to stop that is to have higher tax rates on the richest like before Reagan. Also it's the only way to have money to invest in tech training and cheaper education for the many jobs that go begging because America is getting dumber and dumber as the GOP makes it more and more difficult and expensive to get that training as well as money for infrastructure which is falling apart and hurting business.

So the fuck what?

It's none of your business what any business pays their employees.

Every other modern country in the world has a living wage free healthcare free daycare 1 month or more paid vacation, paid parental leave, the rich paying their fair share. The only thing the GOP has going for it is it's huge propaganda machine and ignorant brainwashed functional morons like you... It is amazing what a big lie can do. Thanks for ruining the middle class and our infrastructure the last 35 years, the stupidest Wars ever, Wrecking the Middle East, a corrupt World depression, and obstructing all the usual Solutions 4 8 years under Obama. Great job, brainwashed functional moron.

So feel free to move to any or every other country and stop your fucking whining.

And quite frankly I don't give a flying or any other kind of fuck what the GOP does so you can stop whining about them too.

I'm not going anywhere a******... Only Republicans the silly Dupes believe that is some kind of argument brainwashed functional morons... You don't care about the GOP? You just repeat all of their talking points and stupid insults and vote for them no doubt what

Not the way it works.

it's none of your business what a CEO gets paid unless you own the company.

Until we pass laws governing CEO compensation like most of the European countries have.

Oh, wait. How dare we exercise democracy.

Democracy is restricting income? That doesn't sound like democracy, that sounds like dictatorship.

Democracy is doing what the voters want, dingbat. And no we're not talking about texting people like you more just the richest. But nice Pavlov dog reaction, dupe.

Because we need investments in the middle class and the country...

and now you are talking to yourself.

You better go find one of those foreign countries you love so much that has the best socialized mental health care you can find