Toddler finds mother shot dead in Umm al-Fahm

[Coyote]

One very important point; When I had mentioned the family in a prior post there wasn't one Pro Palestinian with ANY degree of sorrow or empathy!!!!

What family? Do you mean the Fogels? Has it occurred to you that that is old news, much discussed and with much empathy already given and your attempt to continue bringing it up in other threads is little more self-serving thread derailment?

However what was even more disgusting was that Pro Palestinian bitch Sheri saying she asked for it because she was on " occupied land " . However what is really disgusting is that she claimed Ms Fogel DESERVED IT because she taught " terrorism " to the young Israeli girls. Of course when asked to produce the link there was nobody home. Didn't see you condemn that!!!! You can take your racist Double Standard and shove it up your ass

We'll overlook your own racist double standard for now. How about discussing the OP rather than dragging other murders into this thread? Try it. It ain't rocket science.

I never said she deserved it

You said you "don't give a shit".

unlike Sheri who stated that Ms. Fogel did. Wouldn't expect you to understand that though. So exactly what makes me " racist?" Because I refuse to get upset about what Arab Men do to Arab Women ?

When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?

Maybe you would be better off using your hostility towards those " Christians" who do not condemn the Muslim enslaving and killing of Christians. Naaaaa.... That would be asking to much.

Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?

Besides, I can't ask you to think beyond the thread.

Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims

The above is only a small portion of the article. This is what you should get upset about instead of taking out your Hostility on me.

Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.

Maybe you should get in touch with them and ask if it's in the Quran. ( What a stupid comment)

Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

 

[ForeverYoung436]

What family? Do you mean the Fogels? Has it occurred to you that that is old news, much discussed and with much empathy already given and your attempt to continue bringing it up in other threads is little more self-serving thread derailment?



We'll overlook your own racist double standard for now. How about discussing the OP rather than dragging other murders into this thread? Try it. It ain't rocket science.

I never said she deserved it

You said you "don't give a shit".



When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?



Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?



Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims

The above is only a small portion of the article. This is what you should get upset about instead of taking out your Hostility on me.

Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.

Maybe you should get in touch with them and ask if it's in the Quran. ( What a stupid comment)

Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject. You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

 

[Coyote]

I never said she deserved it

You said you "don't give a shit".



When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?



Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?



Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims



Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.

Maybe you should get in touch with them and ask if it's in the Quran. ( What a stupid comment)

Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject.

A simple search on honor killings (Wikipedia for example) will show it does not occur in just Muslim societies or in all Muslim socieities (for example it's relatively rare in muslim-dominant Indonesia). As a matter of fact - it was still legal to kill a woman over "honor" (it wasn't considered murder) in Brazil until the 1990's I believe.

News reports are seldom interested in accuracy.

You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

I'm not sure what you are asking me to expound on. Honor killings occur in India - in fact, it's fairly common there particularly in relation to inter-caste marriages or inconvenient brides. When I mentioned rape - I was referring to the horrific incident recently where 3 men in a bus brutally raped a young woman, who subsequently died and set afire great public anger and outcry for change. Rape is endemic among women in certain areas of India and seldom sucessfully prosecuted. I brought it up in relation to the larger problem of violence against women in these cultures.

 

[irosie91]

for the record-----the " LEGAL" killing in brazil was not any woman in
the family guilty of a sexual indiscretion------it was A WIFE
CAUGHT IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO ---even in civilized lands---
that is not "murder" it is manslaughter

honor killing -----like female circumcision does remain a
MUSLIM thing----citing exceptions does not change that fact.
I am left handed----which does not change the fact that most
normal people are right handed (obama is left handed too)

In order to function politely in mid eastern and indian society----
I must avoid handling food with my left hand -----not easy for me--
but I manage every time I visit calcutta or kolkota or
mumbai or bombay or mecca

 

[proudveteran06]

You said you "don't give a shit".



When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?



Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?



Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims



Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.



Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject.

A simple search on honor killings (Wikipedia for example) will show it does not occur in just Muslim societies or in all Muslim socieities (for example it's relatively rare in muslim-dominant Indonesia). As a matter of fact - it was still legal to kill a woman over "honor" (it wasn't considered murder) in Brazil until the 1990's I believe.

News reports are seldom interested in accuracy.

You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

I'm not sure what you are asking me to expound on. Honor killings occur in India - in fact, it's fairly common there particularly in relation to inter-caste marriages or inconvenient brides. When I mentioned rape - I was referring to the horrific incident recently where 3 men in a bus brutally raped a young woman, who subsequently died and set afire great public anger and outcry for change. Rape is endemic among women in certain areas of India and seldom sucessfully prosecuted. I brought it up in relation to the larger problem of violence against women in these cultures.

I don't give a SHIT. That is not the same as saying she DESERVED IT. The fact that you don't know the difference is not my problem.

Can't understand why I don't have empathy towards Muslims who are being attacked by their own people? lol

When Muslims begin to care and have empathy towards Christians who are being enslaved and killed or when the Pro Palestinian ( Christian ) Posters do then you can ask me to " care".

What I did say about the Rape in India was that is was NOT done in the name of " religion". Is that difficult for you to understand?

Like it or not, it basically occurs in the Muslim World. In the US there have been " Honor Killings" ; Guess what religion? Hint.... Not the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Chinese, Japenese, etc. etc.


http://http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/04/world/asia/afghanistan-honor-killing-survivor


Exclusive: How my brother tried to kill me in 'honor attack' - CNN.com








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Exclusive: How my brother tried to kill me in 'honor attack'


By Anna Coren, CNN

updated 1:41 PM EDT, Thu April 4, 2013




Watch this video


'My brother tried to kill me'



STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Gul Meena, 17, left her abusive husband in Pakistan for another man
She knew she was committing the ultimate crime according to Islamic customs
Meena's brother hacked her friend to death with an ax, before turning on her
Gul Meena is one of thousands of women living in shelters across Afghanistan

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- It's cold and raining in Kabul and the pothole-filled dirt roads have turned into a sea of mud. We drive up to the gateway of a high-walled compound. A soldier brandishing an AK-47 stands guard outside the building. We've come to a women's shelter to meet Gul Meena -- a 17-year-old girl from Pakistan who shouldn't be alive.

My crew and I are ushered into a room and sitting on a wooden chair slouched over is small, fragile Gul Meena. Her sullen eyes turn from the raindrops streaming down the window outside and towards us as we enter the room.

Gul's bright coloured headscarf is embroidered with blue, red and green flowers and covers most of her face. She nervously plays with it and gives us a glimpse of a frightened smile from underneath the fabric. Her guardian Anisa, from the shelter run by Women for Afghan Women, touches her head and gently moves the headscarf back. That's when we see the scars etched deeply into her face.

This Pakistani girl's life of misery and suffering began at the tender age of 12, when instead of going to school she was married to a man old enough to be her grandfather. She says: "My family married me off when I was 12 years old. My husband was 60. Every day he would beat me. I would cry and beg him stop. But he just kept on beating me."






Watch this video

Educating girls in Afghanistan





Watch this video

Inside a firefight with the Taliban





Watch this video

Packing up, shippping out of Afghanistan
When Gul told her family what was happening, they responded in a way that shocked her. "My family would hit me when I complained. They told me you belong in your husband's house -- that is your life."

After five years of abuse, Gul Meena met a young Afghan man and finally gathered the courage to leave her husband in Pakistan. In November 2012 she packed up some belongings and they made their way across the border into Afghanistan to the city of Jalalabad.

READ MORE: Afghanistan's future: 5 burning questions

Gul knew she was committing the ultimate crime according to strict Islamic customs -- running away from her husband with another man -- but she also knew she didn't want to continue living the life she had since her marriage.

"I'd tried to kill myself with poison several times but it didn't work. I hated my life and I had to escape. When I ran away I knew it would be dangerous. I knew my husband and family would be looking for me but I never thought this would happen. I thought my future would be bright," she says.

Days later her older brother tracked them down. Armed with an ax, he hacked to death Gul Meena's friend, and then struck his own sister 15 times -- cutting open her face, head and parts of her body.

Gul Meena shows me these scars -- taking off her headscarf, her finger gently running up and down the raised, freshly healed skin. She touches her head where the blade hit her and then shows me the deep cuts that were made to the back of her neck and her arms. It's clear to me she desperately tried to fight off her brother before she passed out.

Assuming she was dead, her brother escaped back to Pakistan. Authorities are yet to catch him, but his family denies that he tried to kill Gul.






Watch this video

Dangerous challenge for Afghan police





Watch this video

A woman like Malala





Watch this video

Afghanistan's war history
Hearing the commotion, a passer-by discovered Gul Meena lying in a pool of blood in her bed, and rushed her to the Emergency Department of Nangarhar Regional Medical Centre.

With part of her brain hanging out of her skull, neurosurgeon Zamiruddin Khalid held out little hope that the girl on his operating table would survive.

READ MORE: Why U.S. can't deliver women's rights to Afghanistan

"We took her to the operating theatre and she'd already lost a lot of blood. Her injuries were horrific and her brain had been affected -- we didn't think she would survive", says Khalid as he shows us photos of Gul's injuries before he sewed up the wounds. In one photo her face looks like a piece of meat that has been hacked apart.

Khalid said: "We are very thankful to almighty God that Gul Meena is alive -- it really is a miracle."

But Gul's troubles were far from over. While she'd received life-saving treatment from the doctors and staff at the hospital, she had no one to care for her on the outside. Gul had been disowned by her family and despite the government and authorities knowing that she was alive and receiving care at the hospital, they wanted nothing to do with her due to the stigma and circumstances surrounding her attack.

For two months Gul stayed in the hospital thanks to the generosity of doctors who donated the money to pay for her medicine. Finally the American-Afghan organization Women for Afghan Women was informed of Gul's situation and took her in, transporting her back to a shelter in Kabul to give her the love and care she so desperately needed.

"When she first came to us she couldn't talk or walk she was barely conscious -- she couldn't eat by herself. She had to wear a diaper. If we hadn't got her when we did, she wouldn't have survived," says Manizha Naderi, the executive director of Women For Afghan Women.

Gul Meena is one of thousands of women living in shelters across Afghanistan -- many of them victims of attempted honor killings. Tragically this practice still exists in a number of cultures, including certain tribes in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon recently expressed concern over the 20% increase in civilian casualties among women and girls in Afghanistan in 2012. Moon said: "I'm deeply disturbed that despite some improvements in prosecuting cases of violence, there is still a pervasive climate of impunity in Afghanistan for abuses of women and girls."


Just part of the article. You can deny this all you want . Doesn't change the facts.

 

[sealadaigh]

I never said she deserved it

You said you "don't give a shit".



When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?



Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?



Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims



Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.

Maybe you should get in touch with them and ask if it's in the Quran. ( What a stupid comment)

Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject. You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

get real. men beat up and kill women all the time around the world and in america...and occasionally women beat up or kill men as well. none of it is excusable and just because you can wrap one culture up and put a neat little bow on the package and name it doesn't make it more wrong.

you've never heard of honor killings? how often do you hear of a man killing his wife or girlfriend because they are engaged in an affair. guess what? that is an honour killing.

where the hell do you live anyway. i would be more concerned about these types of abuses that occur in my own society. it is like the catholic church abuse scandal. that was bad, sure, but some jews were so interested in tearing down the catholic church that their own little childers were being abused by trusted caregivers and they were excusing it.

 

[proudveteran06]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PALESTINIANS ARE LAW ABIDING PEOPLE AFTER ALL !



Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing'


Published Monday 24/12/2012 (updated) 29/01/2013 16:02






Police arrest a man accused of killing his niece, Aya Baradiya, in Hebron,
May 12, 2011. (MaanImages/Mohammad Owawy)

By Soraya Al-Ghussein and Hannah Patchett

RAMALLAH (Ma'an) -- President Mahmoud Abbas has no plans to amend laws that reduce sentences for suspects who claim an "honor" defense for murdering women, his legal adviser says.

"Why change it? This would cause serious problems," Hassan al-Ouri told Ma'an, adding that such a reform would "not benefit women."

In May 2011, the president pledged to amend the law to guarantee maximum penalties for "honor killing" in response to protests over the killing of university student Aya Baradiya in Hebron.

The decision was announced in a phone call to a primetime show on state TV, drawing tears among crowds of mourners shown in a live link-up from the Ramallah studio to Baradiya’s hometown.

Abbas suspended Article 340, which offers a pardon for murder if the perpetrator committed the crime on finding his wife in bed with another man.

The reform was cosmetic: Article 340 had never been used in Palestinian courts since it was legislated in 1960.

"So why did we change the law? To garner public opinion," al-Ouri said in an interview in the presidential compound in Ramallah.

"I, personally, was against the amendment because the crimes that happen in the street have no relevance to Article 340," the legal adviser added.

Al-Ouri says the president will not change the go-to clauses for lawyers seeking leniency for clients who claim they committed murder to defend family "honor."

Articles 97 to 100 of the Jordanian Penal Code, in force in the West Bank, still offer reduced sentences for any act of battery or murder committed in a "state of rage."

"The (law) only addresses 1 percent of the problem. What we need is a new culture," al-Ouri said.

Other officials insist the penal code is the problem.

The law "privileges the killer," Interior Ministry official Haitham Arrar told Ma'an.

"It encourages some people to commit crimes against women, which will go (as far as) killing them," said Arrar, who heads the ministry's democracy and human rights unit.

Abbas fears 'conservative forces'

The Palestinian Legislative Council has not met since 2007, when Hamas and Fatah split, but women's rights expert Soraida Hussein dismisses arguments that reforms must wait until parliament reconvenes.

"For us, for women, all this is irrelevant," said Hussein, general director of the Women's Technical Affairs Committee, an umbrella group of women’s organizations. "Until now, our lives -- in law and in practice -- are seen as less than men's."

The president should issue a decree that "anybody killing anyone else will be sentenced to the highest sentence possible, whether it is a woman or a boy," says Hussein.

"The minute the law is changed and applied, the minute people will think twice," she says. "It's simple and it's not done."

Hussein suggests Abbas is hesitant to pass legal reforms because "he is not ready yet to confront conservative forces."

In 2009, Abbas ratified the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, but al-Ouri, the legal adviser, says it will only be implemented "so long as it doesn’t contravene Islamic code."

"Look, we are for total equality but if there is a basic tenet of Islamic code that we would be forced to change under CEDAW, then people would revolt and brand us as non-believers," al-Ouri said.

'Dressing up honor'

Lax laws encourage murder suspects to claim "honor" in their defense, officials and women’s rights activists say.

"Because the penalty is one or two months, they consider killing her and dress it up as honor," Minister of Women's Affairs Rahiba Diab told Ma'an.

Khawla al-Azraq, who runs a women’s counseling center in Bethlehem, notes that femicide is a global issue but "now in Palestine, they call this honor killing."

"Sometimes these girls are abused by someone in the family and they need to cover this (up) and they kill her; sometimes because they need her money," she says. "These are the real reasons for killing."

"In Palestine, this is the gap, that until now we don’t have our own legislation that really can protect women."

The Independent Commission of Human Rights says 13 women have been killed this year, but the real figure is likely to be higher.

"There has been historically a problem of documentation," says Hussein, the women's rights expert. The cause of suspicious deaths of women was often recorded as "fate," which could refer to forced "suicides" or being pushed from a building, she explained.

Despite repeated requests since September, the Ministry of Interior did not provide Ma'an with the official number of women whose deaths were recorded as "fate" in 2012.

Abbas aide: No plans to outlaw 'honor killing' | Maan News Agency

http://http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=550792

 

[sealadaigh]

for the record---the rights of the PATERFAMILIAS in roman
law to execute anyone in his family or his slaves ----was ALSO
an aspect of the religion of the romans

Virginity---and the seclusion even of married women
was also an ABSOLUTE must in ancient greece.

yes ---sherri-----like thousands of years ago---lots
of people did it. I was referring to the islamic
cultures that are still extant----like the one in the country
in which my hubby was born and the one that the
Iranians REVIVED in the late 1970s and the one that
the arab SPRING is in the act of reviving --
-OSAMA's islam
(for the sunnis)
and UM-two boys bostoni

(there is a new custom for lag b'omer----the eating of picnic
roasted potatoes-----jews did not invent potatoes or the eating
thereof-----and bar kochba never saw a potato----but now
it is a JEWISH CUSTOM to eat picnic roasted potatoes on
lag'b'omer) Muslims did not invent circumcision----but TODAY
' the overwhelming majority of those who practice doing so
are muslims doing it as a religious rite. Dead girl for
sexual indiscretion---or refusal to marry family chosen
man---etc etc ---is way out of proportion to population---
muslim girl. In fact also true in the USA

On the other hand----the only death of husband by
cleaning a gun by wife-----that I heard about---three
of them-----were by texans ---the event taking place
in texas and----at least one of the gun cleaners
was a baptist-----I do not know the religions of the
other two,, I believe that killing ones
husband does precede the existence of
baptists in texas. I do not have enough data
( as I do regarding the issue of islamic female
cicumcision) to describe gun cleaning killing
of husbands as a "texas baptist" thing

all this familial killing...sort began when cain slew abel, didn't it?

 

[Coyote]

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject.

A simple search on honor killings (Wikipedia for example) will show it does not occur in just Muslim societies or in all Muslim socieities (for example it's relatively rare in muslim-dominant Indonesia). As a matter of fact - it was still legal to kill a woman over "honor" (it wasn't considered murder) in Brazil until the 1990's I believe.

News reports are seldom interested in accuracy.

You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

I'm not sure what you are asking me to expound on. Honor killings occur in India - in fact, it's fairly common there particularly in relation to inter-caste marriages or inconvenient brides. When I mentioned rape - I was referring to the horrific incident recently where 3 men in a bus brutally raped a young woman, who subsequently died and set afire great public anger and outcry for change. Rape is endemic among women in certain areas of India and seldom sucessfully prosecuted. I brought it up in relation to the larger problem of violence against women in these cultures.

I don't give a SHIT. That is not the same as saying she DESERVED IT. The fact that you don't know the difference is not my problem.

I never said it was the same.

I merely pointed out that you "give a shit" when it comes to the Fogel family and you "don't give a shit" when it comes to an Arab family.

Can't understand why I don't have empathy towards Muslims who are being attacked by their own people? lol

Funny that.

I don't care who attacks who. I still give a shit. It's human lives ya know...not just some human lives.

When Muslims begin to care and have empathy towards Christians who are being enslaved and killed or when the Pro Palestinian ( Christian ) Posters do then you can ask me to " care".

Well...you see, I don't qualify my empathy to just some groups of people and make it conditional upon arbritrary criteria that disregards their actions as individuals. The funny thing is, you sound kind of like Sherri there. Imagine that

What I did say about the Rape in India was that is was NOT done in the name of " religion". Is that difficult for you to understand?

Neither is honor killing - what's so hard to understand about that?

Like it or not, it basically occurs in the Muslim World. In the US there have been " Honor Killings" ; Guess what religion? Hint.... Not the Jews, Christians, Hindus, Chinese, Japenese, etc. etc.

In the US, "honor killing" is rare as to be a statistical anomoly that barely rates a mention (school shootings are far more common). Around the world however - guess what religions commit honor killings?

I'll make it easy for you: c) All of the above.

How many of them do it in the "name of religion"? d) none of the above

It's done for a variety of reasons including:
a) girl is viewed as promiscuous
b) girl got raped (must have been her fault after all)
c) girl married or got involved with someone of the wrong class
d) girl got married or involved in someone of the wrong religion

Just part of the article. You can deny this all you want . Doesn't change the facts.

I'm not the one denying facts.

 

[irosie91]

for the record---the rights of the PATERFAMILIAS in roman
law to execute anyone in his family or his slaves ----was ALSO
an aspect of the religion of the romans

Virginity---and the seclusion even of married women
was also an ABSOLUTE must in ancient greece.

yes ---sherri-----like thousands of years ago---lots
of people did it. I was referring to the islamic
cultures that are still extant----like the one in the country
in which my hubby was born and the one that the
Iranians REVIVED in the late 1970s and the one that
the arab SPRING is in the act of reviving --
-OSAMA's islam
(for the sunnis)

and UM-two boys bostoni

(there is a new custom for lag b'omer----the eating of picnic
roasted potatoes-----jews did not invent potatoes or the eating
thereof-----and bar kochba never saw a potato----but now
it is a JEWISH CUSTOM to eat picnic roasted potatoes on
lag'b'omer) Muslims did not invent circumcision----but TODAY
' the overwhelming majority of those who practice doing so
are muslims doing it as a religious rite. Dead girl for
sexual indiscretion---or refusal to marry family chosen
man---etc etc ---is way out of proportion to population---
muslim girl. In fact also true in the USA

On the other hand----the only death of husband by
cleaning a gun by wife-----that I heard about---three
of them-----were by texans ---the event taking place
in texas and----at least one of the gun cleaners
was a baptist-----I do not know the religions of the
other two,, I believe that killing ones
husband does precede the existence of
baptists in texas. I do not have enough data
( as I do regarding the issue of islamic female
cicumcision) to describe gun cleaning killing
of husbands as a "texas baptist" thing

all this familial killing...sort began when cain slew abel, didn't it?

It was a precedent------did you actually read the bible or just the
classic comic version of the story. (borrowed from sherri)

I find the story very interesting for the repeated use of a
particular word----the word is----I believe the theme of the
entire story -------want to know the word? too bad!!!
I am going to tell you anyway the word is "TO CHOOSE"

the theme of the story has more to do with the concept of
FREE CHOICE ----than sibling rivalry---cain CHOSE to kill--
and then saw his own life as worthless too.

the last words of one of the parts is "CHOOSE (imperative)
LIFE"

 

[Coyote]

for the record-----the " LEGAL" killing in brazil was not any woman in
the family guilty of a sexual indiscretion------it was A WIFE
CAUGHT IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO ---even in civilized lands---
that is not "murder" it is manslaughter

honor killing -----like female circumcision does remain a
MUSLIM thing----citing exceptions does not change that fact.
I am left handed----which does not change the fact that most
normal people are right handed (obama is left handed too)

In order to function politely in mid eastern and indian society----
I must avoid handling food with my left hand -----not easy for me--
but I manage every time I visit calcutta or kolkota or
mumbai or bombay or mecca

Honor killing is common amongst Hindu India.

That hardly makes it a "muslim" thing.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

You said you "don't give a shit".



When you are outraged when the Fogel's were murdered but "don't give a shit" when an Arab is murdered...that seems kind of "racist".

Now, my turn: what exactly makes me "racist"?



Oh, I dunno....I'm still wasting time trying to find anywhere where you've exhibited a shred of empathy towards Muslims being killed and "enslaved" (to use your terms) in Sri Lanka and Burma. Naaaa....would never happen would it?



Translation: I really really really want to derail this thread onto other topics so I can keep bashing ebil muslims



Sweetheart, when you start accusing others of stances, thoughts, or opinions they may not have - do not be surprised to see it flung back at you or be asked to prove it. That's not hostility.

I do not "support" honor killings but unlike you - I do not pretend it's part of Islam or limited only to Muslims and I condemn it wherever it occurs. It's an archaic remnant of a once powerful patriarchal mentality that regarded women as men's property and it's still unfortunately very strong in many parts of the world.



Nice dodge but it won't work. Since it's such a "stupid" comment, it should be easy for you to whip out the Quran (you know so much about Islam after all) and show me where it says honor killing is okee dokee.

YOU made the claim that it's part of the religion. So support it or admit maybe you might be wrong

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject. You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

get real. men beat up and kill women all the time around the world and in america...and occasionally women beat up or kill men as well. none of it is excusable and just because you can wrap one culture up and put a neat little bow on the package and name it doesn't make it more wrong.

you've never heard of honor killings? how often do you hear of a man killing his wife or girlfriend because they are engaged in an affair. guess what? that is an honour killing.

where the hell do you live anyway. i would be more concerned about these types of abuses that occur in my own society. it is like the catholic church abuse scandal. that was bad, sure, but some jews were so interested in tearing down the catholic church that their own little childers were being abused by trusted caregivers and they were excusing it.

Would you try to control yourself a little? I was talking of the specific cases in Muslim societies of a girl getting raped, and then the girl's own brother killing her or throwing acid on her because she had somehow brought "disgrace" on her family by getting herself raped. This is exclusive to Muslim societies, from reports that I have seen on the news. In the Hebrew Bible, an honor killing would be killing the rapist. When Dinah was raped, her brothers killed the rapist and his father, Absalom killed his sister's rapist (a half-brother), and a gang-rape sparked a civil war in the Book of Judges. When a Pakistani couple threw acid on their own daughter for just looking at a man and killed her, technically that wasn't an honor killing--it's only when a girl's own family kills her for being raped. In the cases that you cited of a husband killing an unfaithful wife, it's not the wife's own blood relatives doing the killing. THAT is called an "honor killing" in Muslim countries--the family wiping away the shame that their daughter or sister brought upon them. That's also different from child molestation, and I like to deal with issues individually.
From the way you act, it's no wonder people think you're an alcoholic.

 

[sealadaigh]

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject. You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

get real. men beat up and kill women all the time around the world and in america...and occasionally women beat up or kill men as well. none of it is excusable and just because you can wrap one culture up and put a neat little bow on the package and name it doesn't make it more wrong.

you've never heard of honor killings? how often do you hear of a man killing his wife or girlfriend because they are engaged in an affair. guess what? that is an honour killing.

where the hell do you live anyway. i would be more concerned about these types of abuses that occur in my own society. it is like the catholic church abuse scandal. that was bad, sure, but some jews were so interested in tearing down the catholic church that their own little childers were being abused by trusted caregivers and they were excusing it.

Would you try to control yourself a little? I was talking of the specific cases in Muslim societies of a girl getting raped, and then the girl's own brother killing her or throwing acid on her because she had somehow brought "disgrace" on her family by getting herself raped. This is exclusive to Muslim societies, from reports that I have seen on the news. In the Hebrew Bible, an honor killing would be killing the rapist. When Dinah was raped, her brothers killed the rapist and his father, Absalom killed his sister's rapist (a half-brother), and a gang-rape sparked a civil war in the Book of Judges. When a Pakistani couple threw acid on their own daughter for just looking at a man and killed her, technically that wasn't an honor killing--it's only when a girl's own family kills her for being raped. In the cases that you cited of a husband killing an unfaithful wife, it's not the wife's own blood relatives doing the killing. THAT is called an "honor killing" in Muslim countries--the family wiping away the shame that their daughter or sister brought upon them. That's also different from child molestation, and I like to deal with issues individually.
From the way you act, it's no wonder people think you're an alcoholic.

fook off, buddy. people accuse me of being an alcoholic for one reason and one reason only. the only answer they have to my arguments are racial stereotypes.

women are ill treated in all third world countries because third world countries are poverty stricken and maybe instead of first world countries bleeding the less fortunate and forgiving them their debt, that would have a chance to progress and adopt standards more like those of your usurious money lender ilk...if you get my friggin' drift.

stereotypes are a two way street, you pompous, arrogant ass.

yeah, let's blame it all on the muslims...and god forbid any woman on the back of the haredic bus opens her yap or she'll be gettin' a good punch in the gob so she knows her place.

you do not care one single little damn about muslim women. all you give a flying frog about is demonising muslim society so you have someone to lord it over and make your mown indiscretions less offensive.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

get real. men beat up and kill women all the time around the world and in america...and occasionally women beat up or kill men as well. none of it is excusable and just because you can wrap one culture up and put a neat little bow on the package and name it doesn't make it more wrong.

you've never heard of honor killings? how often do you hear of a man killing his wife or girlfriend because they are engaged in an affair. guess what? that is an honour killing.

where the hell do you live anyway. i would be more concerned about these types of abuses that occur in my own society. it is like the catholic church abuse scandal. that was bad, sure, but some jews were so interested in tearing down the catholic church that their own little childers were being abused by trusted caregivers and they were excusing it.

Would you try to control yourself a little? I was talking of the specific cases in Muslim societies of a girl getting raped, and then the girl's own brother killing her or throwing acid on her because she had somehow brought "disgrace" on her family by getting herself raped. This is exclusive to Muslim societies, from reports that I have seen on the news. In the Hebrew Bible, an honor killing would be killing the rapist. When Dinah was raped, her brothers killed the rapist and his father, Absalom killed his sister's rapist (a half-brother), and a gang-rape sparked a civil war in the Book of Judges. When a Pakistani couple threw acid on their own daughter for just looking at a man and killed her, technically that wasn't an honor killing--it's only when a girl's own family kills her for being raped. In the cases that you cited of a husband killing an unfaithful wife, it's not the wife's own blood relatives doing the killing. THAT is called an "honor killing" in Muslim countries--the family wiping away the shame that their daughter or sister brought upon them. That's also different from child molestation, and I like to deal with issues individually.
From the way you act, it's no wonder people think you're an alcoholic.

fook off, buddy. people accuse me of being an alcoholic for one reason and one reason only. the only answer they have to my arguments are racial stereotypes.

women are ill treated in all third world countries because third world countries are poverty stricken and maybe instead of first world countries bleeding the less fortunate and forgiving them their debt, that would have a chance to progress and adopt standards more like those of your usurious money lender ilk...if you get my friggin' drift.

stereotypes are a two way street, you pompous, arrogant ass.

yeah, let's blame it all on the muslims...and god forbid any woman on the back of the haredic bus opens her yap or she'll be gettin' a good punch in the gob so she knows her place.

you do not care one single little damn about muslim women. all you give a flying frog about is demonising muslim society so you have someone to lord it over and make your mown indiscretions less offensive.

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

 

[Hossfly]

Would you try to control yourself a little? I was talking of the specific cases in Muslim societies of a girl getting raped, and then the girl's own brother killing her or throwing acid on her because she had somehow brought "disgrace" on her family by getting herself raped. This is exclusive to Muslim societies, from reports that I have seen on the news. In the Hebrew Bible, an honor killing would be killing the rapist. When Dinah was raped, her brothers killed the rapist and his father, Absalom killed his sister's rapist (a half-brother), and a gang-rape sparked a civil war in the Book of Judges. When a Pakistani couple threw acid on their own daughter for just looking at a man and killed her, technically that wasn't an honor killing--it's only when a girl's own family kills her for being raped. In the cases that you cited of a husband killing an unfaithful wife, it's not the wife's own blood relatives doing the killing. THAT is called an "honor killing" in Muslim countries--the family wiping away the shame that their daughter or sister brought upon them. That's also different from child molestation, and I like to deal with issues individually.
From the way you act, it's no wonder people think you're an alcoholic.

fook off, buddy. people accuse me of being an alcoholic for one reason and one reason only. the only answer they have to my arguments are racial stereotypes.

women are ill treated in all third world countries because third world countries are poverty stricken and maybe instead of first world countries bleeding the less fortunate and forgiving them their debt, that would have a chance to progress and adopt standards more like those of your usurious money lender ilk...if you get my friggin' drift.

stereotypes are a two way street, you pompous, arrogant ass.

yeah, let's blame it all on the muslims...and god forbid any woman on the back of the haredic bus opens her yap or she'll be gettin' a good punch in the gob so she knows her place.

you do not care one single little damn about muslim women. all you give a flying frog about is demonising muslim society so you have someone to lord it over and make your mown indiscretions less offensive.

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

Of course there is a difference, but Seal wouldn't admit to that. I wouldn't consider America a third-world country, but honor killings (as well as female circumcisions) are even done here. For example: Texas 'honor killing' suspect Yaser Said could be hiding in plain sight as NYC cabbie, private investigator says | Fox News

Meanwhile, while Seal had the chance to discuss the terrible behavior toward women in the Middle East (and elsewhere) on a different forum, he never ever brought it up. However, if a Jew or someone who is pro Israel brings it up, he is right there on step. Naturally, the news about his friends Kidnapping and forcing Christian girls to convert doesn't seem to bother him at all.
BosNewsLife ? Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Christian Family Hiding Amid Death Threats

 

[Coyote]

I've never heard of honor killings outside of Muslim societies, from all the news reports I've ever watched on that subject. You mentioned a rape in India, which is not the same as an honor killing. Honor killings are done because of rape--to the victim instead of the attacker. Can you please expound on this case in India?

get real. men beat up and kill women all the time around the world and in america...and occasionally women beat up or kill men as well. none of it is excusable and just because you can wrap one culture up and put a neat little bow on the package and name it doesn't make it more wrong.

you've never heard of honor killings? how often do you hear of a man killing his wife or girlfriend because they are engaged in an affair. guess what? that is an honour killing.

where the hell do you live anyway. i would be more concerned about these types of abuses that occur in my own society. it is like the catholic church abuse scandal. that was bad, sure, but some jews were so interested in tearing down the catholic church that their own little childers were being abused by trusted caregivers and they were excusing it.

Would you try to control yourself a little? I was talking of the specific cases in Muslim societies of a girl getting raped, and then the girl's own brother killing her or throwing acid on her because she had somehow brought "disgrace" on her family by getting herself raped. This is exclusive to Muslim societies, from reports that I have seen on the news.

Well....no.

Disfigured victim's plea to die exposes India's acid violence | Reuters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Acid_Survivors_Charity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Acid_Survivors_Charity
etc. etc.

In the Hebrew Bible, an honor killing would be killing the rapist. When Dinah was raped, her brothers killed the rapist and his father, Absalom killed his sister's rapist (a half-brother), and a gang-rape sparked a civil war in the Book of Judges.

Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Sounds like honor killing to me.

By the way - where in the Quran is there any sanctioning of honor killing?

When a Pakistani couple threw acid on their own daughter for just looking at a man and killed her, technically that wasn't an honor killing--it's only when a girl's own family kills her for being raped.

Where did you get that definition?

Honor Killing

An honor killing, or honour killing[1] is the homicide of a member of a family or social group by other members, due to the belief of the perpetrators that the victim has brought dishonor upon the family or community.

The perceived dishonor is normally the result of one of the following behaviors, or the suspicion of such behaviors: dressing in a manner unacceptable to the family or community, wanting to terminate or prevent an arranged marriage or desiring to marry by own choice, especially if to a member of a social group deemed inappropriate, engaging in heterosexual acts outside marriage and engaging in homosexual acts. Honor killings have been labeled as a form of gender apartheid.[2]​

In the cases that you cited of a husband killing an unfaithful wife, it's not the wife's own blood relatives doing the killing. THAT is called an "honor killing" in Muslim countries--the family wiping away the shame that their daughter or sister brought upon them. That's also different from child molestation, and I like to deal with issues individually.
From the way you act, it's no wonder people think you're an alcoholic.

Honor killings do not have to be perpetrated by blood relatives as per the definition.

 

[Coyote]

fook off, buddy. people accuse me of being an alcoholic for one reason and one reason only. the only answer they have to my arguments are racial stereotypes.

women are ill treated in all third world countries because third world countries are poverty stricken and maybe instead of first world countries bleeding the less fortunate and forgiving them their debt, that would have a chance to progress and adopt standards more like those of your usurious money lender ilk...if you get my friggin' drift.

stereotypes are a two way street, you pompous, arrogant ass.

yeah, let's blame it all on the muslims...and god forbid any woman on the back of the haredic bus opens her yap or she'll be gettin' a good punch in the gob so she knows her place.

you do not care one single little damn about muslim women. all you give a flying frog about is demonising muslim society so you have someone to lord it over and make your mown indiscretions less offensive.

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

Of course there is a difference, but Seal wouldn't admit to that. I wouldn't consider America a third-world country, but honor killings (as well as female circumcisions) are even done here. For example: Texas 'honor killing' suspect Yaser Said could be hiding in plain sight as NYC cabbie, private investigator says | Fox News

Meanwhile, while Seal had the chance to discuss the terrible behavior toward women in the Middle East (and elsewhere) on a different forum, he never ever brought it up. However, if a Jew or someone who is pro Israel brings it up, he is right there on step. Naturally, the news about his friends Kidnapping and forcing Christian girls to convert doesn't seem to bother him at all.
BosNewsLife ? Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Christian Family Hiding Amid Death Threats

Funny thing is, Hoss...you've had a chance to discuss terrible behavior toward women amongst non-Muslims and you seem to reflexively derail the conversation onto...surprise - Muslims as if only Muslims can be culpable of these horrible things.

I guess it doesn't matter much if it's not a Muslim.

 

[sealadaigh]

fook off, buddy. people accuse me of being an alcoholic for one reason and one reason only. the only answer they have to my arguments are racial stereotypes.

women are ill treated in all third world countries because third world countries are poverty stricken and maybe instead of first world countries bleeding the less fortunate and forgiving them their debt, that would have a chance to progress and adopt standards more like those of your usurious money lender ilk...if you get my friggin' drift.

stereotypes are a two way street, you pompous, arrogant ass.

yeah, let's blame it all on the muslims...and god forbid any woman on the back of the haredic bus opens her yap or she'll be gettin' a good punch in the gob so she knows her place.

you do not care one single little damn about muslim women. all you give a flying frog about is demonising muslim society so you have someone to lord it over and make your mown indiscretions less offensive.

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

Of course there is a difference, but Seal wouldn't admit to that. I wouldn't consider America a third-world country, but honor killings (as well as female circumcisions) are even done here. For example: Texas 'honor killing' suspect Yaser Said could be hiding in plain sight as NYC cabbie, private investigator says | Fox News

Meanwhile, while Seal had the chance to discuss the terrible behavior toward women in the Middle East (and elsewhere) on a different forum, he never ever brought it up. However, if a Jew or someone who is pro Israel brings it up, he is right there on step. Naturally, the news about his friends Kidnapping and forcing Christian girls to convert doesn't seem to bother him at all.
BosNewsLife ? Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Christian Family Hiding Amid Death Threats

if you want to turn this into a religious thing, here is your judeo-christian ethic at work...

Domestic Violence: Fast Facts on Domestic Violence

and don't you friggin dare try to tell what what i do or do not care about. you are a flamin', outrageous, bloody, bible thumping bigot whose sole function has come to be defending israeli society by any means necessary and your choice of mweapons is demonising muslims.

i tell you what. if i were a young muslim growing up in this land of the free and am exposed to all this prejudicial hatred directed at me night and day, i'd be damned tempted to strap on a suicide belt myself.

pretty soon, more roosters are going to come home to roost, and you're the one spreading out the feed for them.

you want me to scour the presses for nasty ass jews, i can do that, buddy.

get this, chump. poor people beat their wives and do more blue collar crime than rich people. ya ever think you will make the connection with economics and not religion.

 

[toastman]

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

Of course there is a difference, but Seal wouldn't admit to that. I wouldn't consider America a third-world country, but honor killings (as well as female circumcisions) are even done here. For example: Texas 'honor killing' suspect Yaser Said could be hiding in plain sight as NYC cabbie, private investigator says | Fox News

Meanwhile, while Seal had the chance to discuss the terrible behavior toward women in the Middle East (and elsewhere) on a different forum, he never ever brought it up. However, if a Jew or someone who is pro Israel brings it up, he is right there on step. Naturally, the news about his friends Kidnapping and forcing Christian girls to convert doesn't seem to bother him at all.
BosNewsLife ? Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Christian Family Hiding Amid Death Threats

if you want to turn this into a religious thing, here is your judeo-christian ethic at work...

Domestic Violence: Fast Facts on Domestic Violence

and don't you friggin dare try to tell what what i do or do not care about. you are a flamin', outrageous, bloody, bible thumping bigot whose sole function has come to be defending israeli society by any means necessary and your choice of mweapons is demonising muslims.

i tell you what. if i were a young muslim growing up in this land of the free and am exposed to all this prejudicial hatred directed at me night and day, i'd be damned tempted to strap on a suicide belt myself.

pretty soon, more roosters are going to come home to roost, and you're the one spreading out the feed for them.

you want me to scour the presses for nasty ass jews, i can do that, buddy.

You're talking as if you don't already do that

 

[Hossfly]

I think there's a difference between separate seating or getting acid thrown on you or killed.

Of course there is a difference, but Seal wouldn't admit to that. I wouldn't consider America a third-world country, but honor killings (as well as female circumcisions) are even done here. For example: Texas 'honor killing' suspect Yaser Said could be hiding in plain sight as NYC cabbie, private investigator says | Fox News

Meanwhile, while Seal had the chance to discuss the terrible behavior toward women in the Middle East (and elsewhere) on a different forum, he never ever brought it up. However, if a Jew or someone who is pro Israel brings it up, he is right there on step. Naturally, the news about his friends Kidnapping and forcing Christian girls to convert doesn't seem to bother him at all.
BosNewsLife ? Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Christian Family Hiding Amid Death Threats

Funny thing is, Hoss...you've had a chance to discuss terrible behavior toward women amongst non-Muslims and you seem to reflexively derail the conversation onto...surprise - Muslims as if only Muslims can be culpable of these horrible things.

I guess it doesn't matter much if it's not a Muslim.

Why, Coyote, we all know that there is violence against women in all societies regardless of race, religion, or ethnicity. However, it appears that the subject of honor killings mainly by Muslims seem to upset many people, such as yourself. Just whom do you think are mainly committing these honor killings these days? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this thread started to report on a killing of an Arab woman and not a discussion of violence against women? I could have brought up that not only are honor killings committed against Muslim women in the Middle East and the rest of the Muslim world, but I could also have brought up honor killings by Muslims that are happening in Europe too. Now if you feel that there is another group which commits a huge amount of honor killings in this world, could you please inform us?

BBC - Ethics - Honour crimes