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Yah, waterboarding is torture. Anyone who says it isn't is torturing the English language and general logic. General Petraeus says that torture isn't the way to go. Let's see here: go with the General and logical or with the political trolls?
1. Petraeus has to avoid controversy especially since he has political ambitions.
2. Ask Cheney, Condi, Tenet, Hadley, Haden, John Yoo, etc. the guys in the waterboarding loop, they all supported getting KSM downloaded ASAP.
3. If waterboarding is "torture" it didn't disfigure KSM much, he still looks like a turd.
I still say that Obama and Holder can be prosecuted by the next admin for blabbing CIA secret interrogation techniques. Paybacks are a bitch.
Yah, waterboarding is torture. Anyone who says it isn't is torturing the English language and general logic. General Petraeus says that torture isn't the way to go. Let's see here: go with the General and logical or with the political trolls?
1. Petraeus has to avoid controversy especially since he has political ambitions.
2. Ask Cheney, Condi, Tenet, Hadley, Haden, John Yoo, etc. the guys in the waterboarding loop, they all supported getting KSM downloaded ASAP.
3. If waterboarding is "torture" it didn't disfigure KSM much, he still looks like a turd.
I still say that Obama and Holder can be prosecuted by the next admin for blabbing CIA secret interrogation techniques. Paybacks are a bitch.
Like...what "secret" interrogation techniques that weren't already known by the public?
*snortTAPPED Archive | The American Prospect
UNDERNEWS: A SHORT HISTORY OF CIA LIES TO CONGRESS
CIA lies to Congress: widening reaction, leaks hint terrorism collection
The Washington Monthly
Screw the last decade , these pond scum have lied to us from day one, I think you may have what most would consider a pattern here, except braindead mike, go figure
I am sorry, maybe you didn't understand the question. I thought it was pretty clear.
Please provide all the verified lies that the CIA made over the past decade?
For those of us who grew up in the fifties and sixties, WWII and the holocaust were formative examples of the potential behavior of humans. How could the Germans, a people so advanced in intelligence, knowledge become vicious, sadistic murderers. Move forward to 2001 and you learn too quickly. Fear, insecurity, the unknown, death and carnage remove the thin surface of reason making all people potentially evil.
Becoming evil: how ordinary people ... - Google Books
"We first kill people with our minds, before we kill them with weapons. Whatever the conflict, the enemy is always the destroyer. We're on God's side; they're barbaric. We're good, they're evil. War gives us a feeling of moral clarity that we lack at other times." Sam Keen
You are an idiot.
Thank you for your attention on this matter.
he's a homer for the reactionaries.
*snortTAPPED Archive | The American Prospect
UNDERNEWS: A SHORT HISTORY OF CIA LIES TO CONGRESS
CIA lies to Congress: widening reaction, leaks hint terrorism collection
The Washington Monthly
Screw the last decade , these pond scum have lied to us from day one, I think you may have what most would consider a pattern here, except braindead mike, go figure
I am sorry, maybe you didn't understand the question. I thought it was pretty clear.
Please provide all the verified lies that the CIA made over the past decade?
Like we thought you'd acknowledge any evidence provided.
The evidence of CIA misbehavior is beyond any further requirement for posting to cmike's benefit.
He doesn't believe it, he can't believe it, he won't believe it, because he can adjust his view to accomodate the objective facts and balanced interpretations. Let's move on.
The evidence of CIA misbehavior is beyond any further requirement for posting to cmike's benefit.
He doesn't believe it, he can't believe it, he won't believe it, because he can't adjust his view to accomodate the objective facts and balanced interpretations. Let's move on.
Bascially I go by the facts not by the left wing bullshit that has no substance other than in the demented minds of liberals.
Can't the two of you agree on a 3rd party, arbitrary set of rules for what is believable and what is not believeable?
Or are you content with the continual namecalling and drivel spewing on each other? That you continually run like hamster on a wheel in this circle makes you seem pretty idiotic.
Can't the two of you agree on a 3rd party, arbitrary set of rules for what is believable and what is not believeable?
Or are you content with the continual namecalling and drivel spewing on each other? That you continually run like hamster on a wheel in this circle makes you seem pretty idiotic.
The phanatics on far left and far right refuse to abide by objective rules of discussion and evidence. Some of the wierdest conspiracies are aired here, including warmism, birtherism, trutherism, all Republicans-are-corporatists, and so forth so on.
So kicking a cmike in the face is fair game because he simply will not consider any evidence that conflicts with his already held beliefs.
Also I did a search on Malcom Nance.
He is a politician. Figures. He works for the Obama administration.
SWJ Blog
Malcolm Nance Bio said:Malcolm W. Nance is a counter-terrorism and terrorism intelligence consultant for the U.S. governments Special Operations, Homeland Security and Intelligence agencies. A 20-year veteran of the US intelligence community's Combating Terrorism program and a six year veteran of the Global War on Terrorism he has extensive field and combat experience as an field intelligence collections operator, an Arabic speaking interrogator and a master Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) instructor. From Beirut in 1983 he has deployed on numerous anti-terrorism and counter-terrorism intelligence operations in Balkans, Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa and other small wars in direct support to the principle agencies of the Special Operations and Intelligence Community. In 1997 at the US Navy SERE Schools Advanced Terrorism, Abduction and Hostage Survival program (ATAHS) in Coronado, California, he created and led the terrorism training team tasked to simulate the Al Qaeda organization and its tactics, techniques and procedures. In January 2001, he formed Special Readiness Services International to support the SOF in analysis of Al Qaeda and global Jihadi strategy and tactics. On the morning of 9/11 he eye witnessed the attack on the Pentagon and performed rescue/recovery at the crash site. For more than six years he has conducted operations in support of international, federal and state homeland security agencies as well as in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
He is a renown international educator and lecturer on terrorism strategy and tactics, techniques and procedures and frequent guest analyst on Fox news. Nance is author of The Terrorists of Iraq Inside the Strategy and Tactics of the Iraq Insurgency, the new edition of The Terrorist Recognition Handbook A Practitioners Manual for Predicting and Identifying Terrorist Activity (2nd Edition), and the forthcoming books The New Field of Jihad- An analysis of Insurgent Combat Tactics 2003-2007 (fall 2007), Al Qaeda 3.0 The Generational Development of the Bin Laden Jihad 1988-2008 (Spring 2008).
He is presently working on his doctorate while simultaneously attending Insurgency Universitys School of Advanced IED and Suicide Bomber studies at Martyr Zarqawi Hall, Iraq Campus.
Quentin what is funny is how you pick and chose what you like for the memo. You cherry pick.
If you don't believe the CIA memo regarding that a major terrorist attack was thwarted, then you can't legitimately use the same memo as evidence of how many times it was used on each person.
Make up your mind either the CIA has no clue and made everything up or it's a legitimate source. You can't credibly have both.
I never stated how many times each one was waterboarded, other than one was waterboarded twice.
This is false. From your first post in the thread:
When I called you on it, you continued to claim that there was no proof they'd been waterboarded more than three times and I didn't have proof they were waterboarded 83 and 183 times and that my source didn't say anything about it when it so clearly did.
Please now, don't backpedal. Admit that you've been caught in a lie or an honest mistake, and admit the error. You said it was three times, you were wrong. No biggie, but don't go spouting it anymore now that it's been proven for a fact not to be true.
It wasn't used three times, it was used at least 266 times. Now you know.
You are using the CIA memo to supposedly prove your case.
However, the same CIA memo says explicitly that because of the waterboarding the 3 arch terrorists, who were previously uncooperative, gave information that led to:
1) The thwarting of a plane into a LA building
and
2) The stopping of a plot to build and donate a "dirty bomb" in Washington, D.C.
How do you reconcile that?
The memo is a CYA document designed for CYA purposes. Beyond that, the person who wrote it very likely had no idea the Library Tower bombing KSM talked about was already something the CIA knew about and had already captured the ringleader and thwarted the plot. The CIA, like any government bureaucracy, is not monolithic but contains many moving parts and often the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
That's funny
Yeah...how would the CIA, the organization responsible for interrogating the terrorists and stopping terrorist attacks, know anything about what actually happened?
Left wing blogs are a much source to get your information from, than the organization that is actually responsible for what happened, and has accountability.
You guys truely are funny
No wonder the left is so confused.
you can have all the admiration for them in the world, I could give a shit less, but unless you can produce an outside verifiable credible source your opinions are just that, opinions!
No they are not.
My opinions are backs up by the facts from Obama declassified Inspector General CIA memos to the DOJ.
The CIA is the agency responsible for actually doing the interrogations and have accountability.
Your opinions are simply uninformed opinions, because they are backed up by no credible and knowledgeable source.
I spent twenty years in intelligence and four years in the SERE program waterboarding people before I ever opened my mouth on the subject. Marc Thiessen is a fool of the highest magnitude if he thinks he knows anything about waterboarding. His claims are based not on first-hand experience but on a classified briefing from people with an agenda of justifying what was done. That makes Thiessen into a court stenographer for war criminals rather than a person with any real claim of expertise. As for his claim about the relationship between Pol Potera waterboarding and what we have done derived from the SERE program, hes wrong. Before I arrived at SERE, I went to S21 prison in Cambodia. Right next to the Wall of Skulls sits the exact waterboard platform that the SERE program copied for our own use in the training program. Remember, our goal was to prepare pilots for the techniques they might face if they fell into the hands of our enemies. I was waterboarded on arrival at SERE, and then as a senior staffer, I performed the technique or supervised it through hundreds of evolutions.
Thiessens central purpose is apparently to glorify the most extreme practices used by the CIA in the Bush era and to argue that each of these practices, including waterboarding, is vitally necessary to our national securityeven though no president used them before, and it seems that President Bush himself halted many of these practices over Cheneys objection. We have prosecuted and convicted men for using these techniques in the past, and we were right to do so.
This suggests to me that, while he may cite Thomas Aquinas, Thiessen has no sense of honor and no moral compass. I give him credit for his loyalty to the Cheneys, but hes blind to their errors in judgment. The use of waterboarding and other torture techniques was a powerful recruitment tool for Al Qaeda; it spawned thousands of would-be suicide bombers. Thiessen claims that we gained intelligence by using these torture techniques. But this shows that he knows nothing about the intelligence process or how our enemy grows and sustains itself.
Thousands of American POWs died and suffered resisting torture practices that we have always called the tools of the enemy. The SERE program was designed to help them grapple with this inhumanity and retain their dignity in the face of it. Now Thiessen and his boss want us to embrace the tactics we used in that programtaken from the Russians, the Communist Chinese, the North Koreans, the North Vietnamese, the Khmer Rougeas our own. He claims that these techniques are unpleasant but have no long-term physical or mental impact. Really? I challenge him to put up or shut up. I offer to put him through just one hour of the CIA enhanced interrogation techniques that were authorized in the Bush Administrations OLC memosincluding the CIA-approved variant of waterboarding. If at the end he still believes this is not torture, Ill respect his viewpoint. But not until then. By the way, I can assure you that, within that hour, Ill secure Thiessens written admission that waterboarding is torture and that his book is a pack of falsehoods. Hell give me any statement I want in order to end the torture.
and it is this type of thinking that will continue to keep the GOP in the political wilderness. Why? The great majority of the American people hate the neo-con wing of the GOP, and often judge all GOP as if they are neo-cons; and cmike and his cronies are not mainstream America but just a very small, very minor group of loud mouth whackos.
To this day I still can't raise a single give a fuck over those shitheads being abused.
They should have cut their nuts off and sowed them in their mouths while they bleed to death.
On PPV.
