Trinity is foreign to Christ !

[Ancient lion]

Some christians quote
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
as a verse that refers to trinity, actually this was inserted later
The Trinity- Matthew 28:19

Others refer to
"For there are three that bear record [ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one]."
1 John 5:7
But, this is omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts.
http://www.gawaher.com/topic/740518-the-trinity/?p=1272961

 

[LittleNipper]

Some christians quote
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
as a verse that refers to trinity, actually this was inserted later
The Trinity- Matthew 28:19

Others refer to
"For there are three that bear record [ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one]."
1 John 5:7
But, this is omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts.
The Trinity - Refuting Christians - Islamic Forum

I firmly believe every time God appears in the Old Testament, it is Christ who is seen. Christ walked with Adam in the garden. Christ came to Abraham. Christ came to Moses. Christ came to the parents of Samson, etc. Christ is the visible portion of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit is the interactive force of the invisible God. He motivates. He is like the wind... God the Father is the director & initiator. All three are total GOD.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Is the Trinity 1 God or 3 Gods? Mhmmm

You and every Monkey is free to imagine whatever kind of God tickles your fancy.

If there IS a God, She doesn't seem to give a shit.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Trinity is one god, believe me.

Your god can be whatever you want him to be... Just like my god can be whatever I imagine her to be.

And (insert your preferred Deity here) bless the Constitution of the USA and the concept of specifically NOT codifying a religion in to Civil Law!

 

[BreezeWood]

Some christians quote
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
as a verse that refers to trinity, actually this was inserted later
The Trinity- Matthew 28:19

Others refer to
"For there are three that bear record [ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one]."
1 John 5:7
But, this is omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts.
The Trinity - Refuting Christians - Islamic Forum

I firmly believe every time God appears in the Old Testament, it is Christ who is seen. Christ walked with Adam in the garden. Christ came to Abraham. Christ came to Moses. Christ came to the parents of Samson, etc. Christ is the visible portion of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit is the interactive force of the invisible God. He motivates. He is like the wind... God the Father is the director & initiator. All three are total GOD.

Christ is the visible portion of the invisible God.

are you omitting Jesus was born, a baby and surfaced only in the latter part of "his" life ? why not miracles when he was younger or a progression of his teachings from his first days on earth ...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus is clear, he is NOT his father. When some tried to claim he was he rebuked them. The Holy spirit is a force that God uses it is not God. There is no trinity.It is a false teaching. Just as the claim we go to heaven when we die is a false teaching. When you die as per the bible you exist no more and will not exist until such time as the judgement day. God will call all from the grave at that time, 144000 will ascend to heaven and the rest that are found to be acceptable will live on a restored earth.

No man has ascended that did not descend first. meaning Only Jesus.

Sgt, no disrespect but Christ said He was, "I AM"
"I AM" was the same response Moses got when He ask God who He was.
God calls Jesus God.
It is 1 God, three different functions.
Look to yourself to understand that.
"YOU ARE":
Father and you function in a completely different capacity as a father than you do as a,
Husband whose duties you preform with emotions and actions that don't apply to your role as a,
Son whether as child or caretaker to your mom and dad.

You are what we call a Trinity. You are 1 person, 3 unique functions.

As per the Bible it doesn't teach what you think it says. I have to run but I'd love to come back and talk scripture with you later. But for now, I can offer this.

The Bible teaches that our spirit is eternal. Your clay goes in the grave, you go on.
Where the dead went before Christ is very well explained in the Word.

Read about the rich man begging Abraham to send Abraham's servant with a drop of water for his tongue, begging Abraham to send someone back to warn the rich man's brothers that the prophets were telling the truth. Read the scriptures that pertain to Abraham's bosom, and think about what it says for a minute.

Those are dead people talking to each other from 2 different locations. They had vocal chords, tongues, thirst, and were recognizable with or without their clay.

I have to go but I'll come back tonight to look at this according to the Word, and explain where the human soul goes after Christ broke the barrier of death. I promise you there is no interruption in your life, just transition, and not a whole lot of that.

There are two separate judgements to come. One for those that accepted the gift of salvation, and one for those that did not. If you belong to Christ I have some good news for you about the only judgement you will attend. It takes place during your coronation. It consists of weighing the good things you did for Christ's sake and how much treasure you get.
Because Christ exchanged places with you on the cross, you are the sinless one now. Nothing to judge you for in that area, Christ finished your sin. It is remembered no more.

The 144, 000 Messianic Jews never leave earth, but are sealed, as Cain was sealed, to preach Christ during the tribulation period without any harm coming to them.
We need to talk.......

 

[Dajjal]

are you omitting Jesus was born, a baby and surfaced only in the latter part of "his" life ? why not miracles when he was younger or a progression of his teachings from his first days on earth ...

There are writings called the infancy gospels of Jesus, but they are considered to be fiction written in about 150 AD. I have used the fact that one of these infancy stories appears in the quran to argue this proves the quran is all made up, and copied from earlier texts.

 

[LittleNipper]

Some christians quote
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)
as a verse that refers to trinity, actually this was inserted later
The Trinity- Matthew 28:19

Others refer to
"For there are three that bear record [ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one]."
1 John 5:7
But, this is omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts.
The Trinity - Refuting Christians - Islamic Forum

I firmly believe every time God appears in the Old Testament, it is Christ who is seen. Christ walked with Adam in the garden. Christ came to Abraham. Christ came to Moses. Christ came to the parents of Samson, etc. Christ is the visible portion of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit is the interactive force of the invisible God. He motivates. He is like the wind... God the Father is the director & initiator. All three are total GOD.

Christ is the visible portion of the invisible God.

are you omitting Jesus was born, a baby and surfaced only in the latter part of "his" life ? why not miracles when he was younger or a progression of his teachings from his first days on earth ...

Well, we do not know what Jesus taught in the temple at age 12 but remember he astonished the priests. God came to be the PERFECT sacrifice, but He also came into the world as a human. I believe God enjoyed growing up and being a child. He did create man. I actually believe that part of God's intent was to interact with man. Most people have fond memories of growing up. I cannot imagine God through Christ didn't enjoy being a little boy for a moment in time... His teaching mission starts at the wedding feast of a man to a woman.

 

[emilynghiem]

because man is body/mind/spirit
and man is made in the image of God
the idea of "three being one" represents the relationship between God and man.

individual vs. collective humanity joined by laws or by conscience

physical vs. spiritual level joined by psychological level of perception in the mind

this pattern is represented in all religions or systems of laws
that attempt to quantify laws of nature, society or govt
defining the "relationship" between the individual being and the greater whole

all laws attempt to define this

And Jesus representing God's divine justice made incarnated
or embodied in the human level means the spirit of truth
that fulfills all written laws with universal authority

So this is why Jesus represents the central authority joining man with God
no matter how laws are represented by different cultures, nations, tribes or authorities

Some christians think that Jesus or the bible told them to be trinitarians.

This is false.

Trinity was never teached by Christ.

The New Encyclopædia Britannica:
"Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."-(1976), Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

The Trinity Doctrine Examined

God can't be man nor a son of man (Logic=Islam)

man and man's laws represent the image of God reflected in our relations with each other

 

[The Irish Ram]

The Trinity is evident in the Bible here, and in many other passages:

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you......

You have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all in one sentence.

 

[emilynghiem]

Jesus is clear, he is NOT his father. When some tried to claim he was he rebuked them. The Holy spirit is a force that God uses it is not God. There is no trinity.It is a false teaching. Just as the claim we go to heaven when we die is a false teaching. When you die as per the bible you exist no more and will not exist until such time as the judgement day. God will call all from the grave at that time, 144000 will ascend to heaven and the rest that are found to be acceptable will live on a restored earth.

No man has ascended that did not descend first. meaning Only Jesus.

The three are distinct, and do not mean that
Jesus Christ the Son "is the same as" God the Father [see John 10:29 where the father is greater than the son, but in the same passage, the son and father are one; both are true]
Nor is the Holy Spirit a "separate" god either.

God the Heavenly Father is the role of Creator and Author of life.
Jesus the Son of God is the Word of God made incarnate as in the Laws of JUSTICE
where forgiveness/mercy brings SALVATION.
The Holy Spirit is this Divine Comfort by God's Grace and Mercy
which brings healing and peace to humanity.

All these are "one with God"
and are not separate "gods"
but each is distinct and not the same as the other.

does it help to explain the Government is ONE not three
separate govts, but the judicial legislative abd executive
have distinct authorites and are NOT the same as each other,
yet the three are one, inseparable. does this help?

[ps if you just dont see the three as being one, that's just the way you see it. i know a married couple, both christian believers, where the husband understands how the three are one, but the wife only knows god as unity and can't understand how jesus and holy spirit can be one with god, yet distinct, but NOT be three separate gods. we tried explaining several ways, but that's just not how she sees it. so some ppl do or dont see it this way.
like how some ppl's brains don't respond to math and just don't think in those terms.]

we also tried explaining it as water in three different states of matter

and also the same story but told in first person, second person, or third person

the explanation that I find universal is either
physical/concrete world vs. spiritual/abstract [and the level of mind conscience or perception joining these two to determine reality]
individual vs. collective level [and the relationship between these two]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[there4eyeM]

Strange for someone who supports Islam to bring up Jesus, who is the primary proof of error in the Koran and, thus, the fall of that faith that claims perfection.

 

[there4eyeM]

The son of man? Think about it. If (and I'm speaking here metaphorically) God sent Jesus because of what Man had become, would that not imply that Man had necessitated this action? One condition 'fathered' the follow up?
To understand what Jesus said, it is necessary to really open the mind. It is very similar to Zen.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Does it really make a difference how individuals and groups view their particular Deity?

As long as no one tries to foist their doctrine on their neighbors, what the hell?

 

[AVG-JOE]

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/266556-word.html

 

[BreezeWood]

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

- to properly read the above quote, as the Word was "in the Beginning" - it could only be God followed and was with the Word - and God became the Word.

In the beginning was the Word, and God was with the Word, and the God was (became) Word.


And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

- this means JC accomplished the Commandment of Remission while alive and what is necessary to reach the Everlasting as God has made clear


I and [my] Father are one.

an embellishment JC claims and truthful for his accomplishment but they are not one ... "'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me".


the Word is what has always been and always will be - the laws of the Universe - when made real as accomplished by God enables the Act of Creations and access to the Everlasting it represents.

God simply allows for others to accomplish the same, if they so chose and can manage the feat.

 

[CMike]

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness; ................


1 x 1 x 1 =1 Not 3.

The very next passage

27. And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

In 26 he was talking to the angels, and in 27 he clearly specifies that it's him and him alone that created man.

1+1+1=3

 

[CMike]

This is Rashi on the passage.

Let us make man: Even though they [the angels] did not assist Him in His creation, and there is an opportunity for the heretics to rebel (to misconstrue the plural as a basis for their heresies), Scripture did not hesitate to teach proper conduct and the trait of humility, that a great person should consult with and receive permission from a smaller one. Had it been written: “I shall make man,” we would not have learned that He was speaking with His tribunal, but to Himself. And the refutation to the heretics is written alongside it [i. e., in the following verse:]“And God created (וַיִּבְרָ&#1488 ,” and it does not say,“and they created וַיִּבְרְאוּ.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 8:9]

Let us make man: From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them.

And when He judges kings, He consults with His Heavenly household, for so we find regarding Ahab, that Micah said to him, (I Kings 22:19): “I saw the Lord seated on His throne, and all the host of heaven were standing by Him, on His right and on His left.” Now do “left” or “right” apply to Him ?!

But rather, [the passage means that] these [angels] were standing on the right to defend, and these [angels] were standing on the left to prosecute. Likewise, (Dan. 4:14): “By the decree of the destructive angels is the matter, and by the word of the holy ones is the edict.” Here too, He took counsel with His heavenly household. He said to them, “Among the heavenly beings, there are some in My likeness. If there are none in My likeness among the earthly beings, there will be envy among the creatures of the Creation. ” - [from Tanchuma, Shemoth 18; Gen. Rabbah 8:11, 14:13]

 

[Ancient lion]

On Jesus being "Lord"

We need not doubt that the Aramaic mari underlies the Greek kyrie (vocative)…Mar was used of the first century BC holy man Abba Hilkiah, presumably in recognition of the charismatic powers attributed to him. Moreover, ‘lord’ was largely synonymous with ‘teacher’ at the time of Jesus, and Jesus was certainly recognised to have the authority of a rabbi or teacher (Mark 9:5 etc). We can therefore say that the confession of Jesus as Lord was rooted within the ministry of Jesus to the extent that he was widely acknowledged to exercise the authority of a (charismatic) teacher and healer (cf. Mark 1:22,27).

J.F. Coakley says the following about the word Mar in the Eastern orthodox Syriac context:

“The title of a bishop or male saint”

(Coakley, J.F. Robinson’s paradigms and exercises in Syriac grammar. Fifth edition. 2002. Oxford University Press. p. 48)

?Jesus is Lord? | Exploring Life, The Universe and Everything