Trump threatens to shut down farms.

[Andylusion]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm for the end of the trade war. It was a bad idea. Trade, is always good. Always. More trade, more capitalism, always a plus.

Trade wars, government intervention, taxes, always a negative.

And as far as 'intellectually property', I don't even believe in the concept. They are going to copy it, so let them. We just need to make the better product. Which is how free-market capitalism should work anyone. It should never be about who has some dumb government paper... it should always be about who makes the better product.

Forget china. Make the better product.

 

[deanrd]

add farmers to the list of voters who will shun Trump.

Add farmers to the list of Trump supporters that have been burned by Trump.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

We have moved way past "short term" here...we are going on more than a year of market malaise...

Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the DJI is down 3.36%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the NADAQ is up 0.86%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the S&Pis down 3.90%

Over the last few months just about every major swing in the market has been tied to the trade war, either good news brings it up or bad news brings it down.

The tariffs are designed to take a little from growth to push for more manufacturing jobs. We were sold a hill of beans decades ago abotu the service economy being the future and it is not. From what I read about ten million manufacturing jobs have been lost and mostly males worked them earning a bir more the the service jobs pay.

80% of the manufacturing jobs lost have been lost to automation or improvements in productivity.

Plus we have been adding manufacturing jobs at a steady pace for 8 years...

 

[WillPower]

3 guesses who picks oranges, cabbage, strawberries etc ?

Mostly machines these days....so why are we importing millions of stoop-labor beaners who can barely write their own name? oh yeah, so they'll vote for your Rat commissars who are laughing at you suckers who's jobs are being stolen.

 

[danielpalos]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

We have moved way past "short term" here...we are going on more than a year of market malaise...

Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the DJI is down 3.36%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the NADAQ is up 0.86%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the S&Pis down 3.90%

Over the last few months just about every major swing in the market has been tied to the trade war, either good news brings it up or bad news brings it down.

The tariffs are designed to take a little from growth to push for more manufacturing jobs. We were sold a hill of beans decades ago abotu the service economy being the future and it is not. From what I read about ten million manufacturing jobs have been lost and mostly males worked them earning a bir more the the service jobs pay.

simply raising the minimum wage would have solved the "service economy wage problem".

 

[toomuchtime_]

The answer to the first is the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty and both the Fed and the media have been flooding us with predictions of a dismal future, all of which have failed to materialize. First the Fed raises interest rates and raises fears of inflation, but has since revised this assessment, then the media flooded us with reports the tax reform would increase the deficit, but in fact, federal tax revenues have increased since the reform went into effect, and then the media treated us with predictions we were heading into another recession, but as the economic news continued to be very good, they stopped pushing that prediction and then they predicted that job creation would slow down in December and January, saying it wouldn't even reach the important 200,000 job level, but it exceeded 300,000 jobs both months and these included the highest number of manufacturing jobs since the boom years of the 1990's. How could the media reports have been so consistently wrong? In any case, the media gave the stock market many (false) reasons to worry about the economy, and the stability loving uncertainty hating stock market responded by ignoring the economic news and bracing for the impact of the false reports in the media.

The people that make the decisions that move the market do not have such a superficial view of things, they do not rely on the network news for their decision making.

A few things for you...

Between Jan and Nov (the time frame the tax cut was in place) tax revenue grew by a whopping 0.0015% compared to the year before. We will find out next week if December taxes will keep that small growth or not.

During the same time period in 2017 (Jan - Nov) tax revenue grew by 3.3% compared to the previous year. So, at best the tax cuts cost us 3.2985% growth in tax revenue.

So, while a huge April allowed the predictions of the tax cuts decreasing revenue not to be true, it was by the skin of their teeth. And keep in mind that April is the month all the people that owed taxes from the previous year pay their remaining tax obligation, so April was huge not because of the tax cut but because of 2017 taxes.

When the jobs report came out, the market went up a little bit, but not enough to over come the trade war.

You are right that the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty, but what is causing the vast majority of the uncertainty is the trade war, not fluff pieces in the MSM

Aside from a few months when China refused to buy US produce, the "trade war" has not caused any real harm to the US economy, so there is no rational reason for investors to pull back from the market other than the negative predictions in the media which have all been wrong.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The answer to the first is the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty and both the Fed and the media have been flooding us with predictions of a dismal future, all of which have failed to materialize. First the Fed raises interest rates and raises fears of inflation, but has since revised this assessment, then the media flooded us with reports the tax reform would increase the deficit, but in fact, federal tax revenues have increased since the reform went into effect, and then the media treated us with predictions we were heading into another recession, but as the economic news continued to be very good, they stopped pushing that prediction and then they predicted that job creation would slow down in December and January, saying it wouldn't even reach the important 200,000 job level, but it exceeded 300,000 jobs both months and these included the highest number of manufacturing jobs since the boom years of the 1990's. How could the media reports have been so consistently wrong? In any case, the media gave the stock market many (false) reasons to worry about the economy, and the stability loving uncertainty hating stock market responded by ignoring the economic news and bracing for the impact of the false reports in the media.

The people that make the decisions that move the market do not have such a superficial view of things, they do not rely on the network news for their decision making.

A few things for you...

Between Jan and Nov (the time frame the tax cut was in place) tax revenue grew by a whopping 0.0015% compared to the year before. We will find out next week if December taxes will keep that small growth or not.

During the same time period in 2017 (Jan - Nov) tax revenue grew by 3.3% compared to the previous year. So, at best the tax cuts cost us 3.2985% growth in tax revenue.

So, while a huge April allowed the predictions of the tax cuts decreasing revenue not to be true, it was by the skin of their teeth. And keep in mind that April is the month all the people that owed taxes from the previous year pay their remaining tax obligation, so April was huge not because of the tax cut but because of 2017 taxes.

When the jobs report came out, the market went up a little bit, but not enough to over come the trade war.

You are right that the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty, but what is causing the vast majority of the uncertainty is the trade war, not fluff pieces in the MSM

Aside from a few months when China refused to buy US produce, the "trade war" has not caused any real harm to the US economy, so there is no rational reason for investors to pull back from the market other than the negative predictions in the media which have all been wrong.

Once again, professional investors do not rely on the MSM for investing advice. That is what you do, you have a superficial knowledge of what is going on but never dig below the surface. You were told that the tax cuts increased revenue, but you never looked at the numbers to find out that increase was only 0.0015%, 1/2000th of what it increased the previous year.

Those who make investing decision for a living, or a hobby like me, do not rely on the MSM, we dig deep to find the "rest of the story".

The trade war hurts because it causes uncertainty, it raises the prices of things via tariffs. Remember, many companies do business all over the world, not just in the US.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The answer to the first is the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty and both the Fed and the media have been flooding us with predictions of a dismal future, all of which have failed to materialize. First the Fed raises interest rates and raises fears of inflation, but has since revised this assessment, then the media flooded us with reports the tax reform would increase the deficit, but in fact, federal tax revenues have increased since the reform went into effect, and then the media treated us with predictions we were heading into another recession, but as the economic news continued to be very good, they stopped pushing that prediction and then they predicted that job creation would slow down in December and January, saying it wouldn't even reach the important 200,000 job level, but it exceeded 300,000 jobs both months and these included the highest number of manufacturing jobs since the boom years of the 1990's. How could the media reports have been so consistently wrong? In any case, the media gave the stock market many (false) reasons to worry about the economy, and the stability loving uncertainty hating stock market responded by ignoring the economic news and bracing for the impact of the false reports in the media.

The people that make the decisions that move the market do not have such a superficial view of things, they do not rely on the network news for their decision making.

A few things for you...

Between Jan and Nov (the time frame the tax cut was in place) tax revenue grew by a whopping 0.0015% compared to the year before. We will find out next week if December taxes will keep that small growth or not.

During the same time period in 2017 (Jan - Nov) tax revenue grew by 3.3% compared to the previous year. So, at best the tax cuts cost us 3.2985% growth in tax revenue.

So, while a huge April allowed the predictions of the tax cuts decreasing revenue not to be true, it was by the skin of their teeth. And keep in mind that April is the month all the people that owed taxes from the previous year pay their remaining tax obligation, so April was huge not because of the tax cut but because of 2017 taxes.

When the jobs report came out, the market went up a little bit, but not enough to over come the trade war.

You are right that the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty, but what is causing the vast majority of the uncertainty is the trade war, not fluff pieces in the MSM

Aside from a few months when China refused to buy US produce, the "trade war" has not caused any real harm to the US economy, so there is no rational reason for investors to pull back from the market other than the negative predictions in the media which have all been wrong.

Once again, professional investors do not rely on the MSM for investing advice. That is what you do, you have a superficial knowledge of what is going on but never dig below the surface. You were told that the tax cuts increased revenue, but you never looked at the numbers to find out that increase was only 0.0015%, 1/2000th of what it increased the previous year.

Those who make investing decision for a living, or a hobby like me, do not rely on the MSM, we dig deep to find the "rest of the story".

The trade war hurts because it causes uncertainty, it raises the prices of things via tariffs. Remember, many companies do business all over the world, not just in the US.

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

 

[Dragonlady]

By ALL measures China is being hurt more than the US by this and what do you suggest that we return to the status quo where China was at war with us and we didn't even know it?

Who says that? Trump?

All of the issues Trump is now negotiating with China were already dealt with in the TPP, which Trump pulled out of, and then tried to get back into. The member nations told Trump to go fuck himself.

 

[DandyDonovan]

By ALL measures China is being hurt more than the US by this and what do you suggest that we return to the status quo where China was at war with us and we didn't even know it?

Who says that? Trump?

All of the issues Trump is now negotiating with China were already dealt with in the TPP, which Trump pulled out of, and then tried to get back into. The member nations told Trump to go fuck himself.

Link to back up your claims?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

They went up by 0.0015%, and that was only because of a record setting April...and April was record setting because people like me were paying off the remainder of our tax burden from 2017 that payroll deductions did not cover. The tax revenue growth between 2016 and 2017 was 2000 times larger than that for 2017 to 2018 and you are wanting a parade!

And the jury is still out because December's numbers have not been released yet due to the shutdown.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

The uncertainty is warranted, because it is real. There is no way to know what Trump is going to do next, or what the Chinese or the EU will do next...that is the uncertainty.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

They went up by 0.0015%, and that was only because of a record setting April...and April was record setting because people like me were paying off the remainder of our tax burden from 2017 that payroll deductions did not cover. The tax revenue growth between 2016 and 2017 was 2000 times larger than that for 2017 to 2018 and you are wanting a parade!

And the jury is still out because December's numbers have not been released yet due to the shutdown.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

The uncertainty is warranted, because it is real. There is no way to know what Trump is going to do next, or what the Chinese or the EU will do next...that is the uncertainty.

Of course, there is a way to know what is going to happen. Neither China nor the EU wants a trade war with the US, so negotiations will ensue and the President will get at least a part of what he wants. Everyone should know what Trump is going to do because he laid it all out in his campaign and he is doing exactly what he said he would do, but the pundits said, he'd never do that, and so now people are confused because the analysts and journalists they had trusted were wrong. Trump is not unpredictable is you pay attention to what he says he will do, but if you listened to the naysayers instead of the President, his actions may seem to come out of nowhere. What we are seeing is not a trade war but a tough negotiation.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

They went up by 0.0015%, and that was only because of a record setting April...and April was record setting because people like me were paying off the remainder of our tax burden from 2017 that payroll deductions did not cover. The tax revenue growth between 2016 and 2017 was 2000 times larger than that for 2017 to 2018 and you are wanting a parade!

And the jury is still out because December's numbers have not been released yet due to the shutdown.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

The uncertainty is warranted, because it is real. There is no way to know what Trump is going to do next, or what the Chinese or the EU will do next...that is the uncertainty.

Of course, there is a way to know what is going to happen. Neither China nor the EU wants a trade war with the US, so negotiations will ensue and the President will get at least a part of what he wants. Everyone should know what Trump is going to do because he laid it all out in his campaign and he is doing exactly what he said he would do, but the pundits said, he'd never do that, and so now people are confused because the analysts and journalists they had trusted were wrong. Trump is not unpredictable is you pay attention to what he says he will do, but if you listened to the naysayers instead of the President, his actions may seem to come out of nowhere. What we are seeing is not a trade war but a tough negotiation.

Yes, Trump is unpredictable, he always has been. Quit parroting the party talking points.

Things were looking up, there was talk of progress in the trade talks, November was an ok month for markets, not great but at least some growth.

Then on Dec the 4th, Trump tweets that he is the "tariff man" and the market drops more than 3% and we end up with the worst December since the great depression.

 

[toomuchtime_]

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

They went up by 0.0015%, and that was only because of a record setting April...and April was record setting because people like me were paying off the remainder of our tax burden from 2017 that payroll deductions did not cover. The tax revenue growth between 2016 and 2017 was 2000 times larger than that for 2017 to 2018 and you are wanting a parade!

And the jury is still out because December's numbers have not been released yet due to the shutdown.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

The uncertainty is warranted, because it is real. There is no way to know what Trump is going to do next, or what the Chinese or the EU will do next...that is the uncertainty.

Of course, there is a way to know what is going to happen. Neither China nor the EU wants a trade war with the US, so negotiations will ensue and the President will get at least a part of what he wants. Everyone should know what Trump is going to do because he laid it all out in his campaign and he is doing exactly what he said he would do, but the pundits said, he'd never do that, and so now people are confused because the analysts and journalists they had trusted were wrong. Trump is not unpredictable is you pay attention to what he says he will do, but if you listened to the naysayers instead of the President, his actions may seem to come out of nowhere. What we are seeing is not a trade war but a tough negotiation.

Yes, Trump is unpredictable, he always has been. Quit parroting the party talking points.

Things were looking up, there was talk of progress in the trade talks, November was an ok month for markets, not great but at least some growth.

Then on Dec the 4th, Trump tweets that he is the "tariff man" and the market drops more than 3% and we end up with the worst December since the great depression.

You're wrong. Trump is very predictable. He said he was going to do this when he was campaigning. If you didn't know he was going to take a very hard line in negotiations with China, then you just weren't paying attention during the campaign.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

As for the tax revenues, the predictions were that they would fall because of the tax cuts, so the fact that they did not fall was big news.

They went up by 0.0015%, and that was only because of a record setting April...and April was record setting because people like me were paying off the remainder of our tax burden from 2017 that payroll deductions did not cover. The tax revenue growth between 2016 and 2017 was 2000 times larger than that for 2017 to 2018 and you are wanting a parade!

And the jury is still out because December's numbers have not been released yet due to the shutdown.

I agree that it is uncertainty that is holding the market down, but so far, there are no signs that uncertainty is warranted. So the tariffs don't cause uncertainty, but negative predictions about what might happen because of them do, and yet none of these negative predictions have proven correct over the last year.

The uncertainty is warranted, because it is real. There is no way to know what Trump is going to do next, or what the Chinese or the EU will do next...that is the uncertainty.

Of course, there is a way to know what is going to happen. Neither China nor the EU wants a trade war with the US, so negotiations will ensue and the President will get at least a part of what he wants. Everyone should know what Trump is going to do because he laid it all out in his campaign and he is doing exactly what he said he would do, but the pundits said, he'd never do that, and so now people are confused because the analysts and journalists they had trusted were wrong. Trump is not unpredictable is you pay attention to what he says he will do, but if you listened to the naysayers instead of the President, his actions may seem to come out of nowhere. What we are seeing is not a trade war but a tough negotiation.

Yes, Trump is unpredictable, he always has been. Quit parroting the party talking points.

Things were looking up, there was talk of progress in the trade talks, November was an ok month for markets, not great but at least some growth.

Then on Dec the 4th, Trump tweets that he is the "tariff man" and the market drops more than 3% and we end up with the worst December since the great depression.

You're wrong. Trump is very predictable. He said he was going to do this when he was campaigning. If you didn't know he was going to take a very hard line in negotiations with China, then you just weren't paying attention during the campaign.

Yep, Trump does everything he says he is going to do..

He said within 100 days he would "I will direct the Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator."

Still waiting for that one...

 

[sparky]

so why are we importing millions of stoop-labor beaners who can barely write their own name? oh yeah, so they'll vote for your Rat commissars who are laughing at you suckers who's jobs are being stolen.

>>>>>

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump


H1-B holders in the United States can rest assured that changes are soon coming which will bring both simplicity and certainty to your stay, including a potential path to citizenship. We want to encourage talented and highly skilled people to pursue career options in the U.S.

4:40 AM - 11 Jan 2019

The trade war hurts because it causes uncertainty, it raises the prices of things via tariffs. Remember, many companies do business all over the world, not just in the US.

Then on Dec the 4th, Trump tweets that he is the "tariff man" and the market drops more than 3% and we end up with the worst December since the great depression.

tariffs are just another tax.....

He said within 100 days he would "I will direct the Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator."

Still waiting for that one...

I'm sure they'd love a petroyuan....

~S~