Trump threatens to shut down farms.

[Siete]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

so its ok for government policy to fuck older generations if it toes the mark with their agenda -

got it ...

 

[FA_Q2]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

so its ok for government policy to fuck older generations if it toes the mark with their agenda -

got it ...

Interesting how I never said any of that.

You do like your straw men, don't you.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

We have moved way past "short term" here...we are going on more than a year of market malaise...

Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the DJI is down 3.36%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the NADAQ is up 0.86%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the S&Pis down 3.90%

Over the last few months just about every major swing in the market has been tied to the trade war, either good news brings it up or bad news brings it down.

Again, this is short term. I could care less what the stocks do in the interim while the trade deals are being worked out - even if that is a 2 year process. What matters is where we end up. Don't get me wrong, I am not stating that there are not issues with a trade war and that there are not costs - I just don't think that the stock price matters at all. The costs are in the damage done to businesses, jobs, product prices, product availability and so on. Stocks don't reflect the real impacts - they reflect what people THINK those impacts are going to be and that is an important distinction.

A better way to make my point, I think, may be to say that this thread should be pointing out real impacts rather than focusing on overall stock performance as that is trivial.

More than a year of stagnation is not short term. That is more than a year that people's 401ks were not making them much, if any money.

Stock prices matter to me as I am just less than a decade from when I want to retire and going more than a year with none of my accounts making much money puts me behind schedule. This time where the market is stagnant cannot be made up, it does not matter what happens in the future, this time is lost.

And so far we have ZILCH to show for it.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

But it is the government that is fucking them up with an ill advised trade war that has shown no benefit yet.

It is not the government place to try and influence what I buy and do not buy. Taxes (and a tariff is nothing but a tax) should have the sole purpose of raising revenue , they should not be used for social engineering or to influence the populous to act a certain way.

Which of these current terrible things happening in the US do you hope this trade war ends...

117 months of economic expansion? Is that too long for you, you want it to end?
100 months of positive job growth? Is that too many jobs for you?
We are basically at full employment. Would you like the UE rate to go back up?
We have more jobs than people to fill them. Should we have more people than jobs?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Trump's trade war is all ego theater. The farmers voted for him, so their losses can simply be regarded as their admission price to the show. Frankly, they are getting what they asked for, and should quit their bitching.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Your perspective appears to be ideological while mine is pragmatic.

Yes, and my ideology is that the smaller the government and the less interference the better off we all are.

It is also pragmatic in that there is a direct negative correlation between government interference and personal liberties...the more of the former, the less of the latter.

In general, I believe we get more economic growth if the government restricts itself, to the extent possible and consistent with its other obligations to only facilitating commerce and not trying to direct it, but when our economy is threatened by a foreign country practicing aggressive and unfair trade policies that threaten US jobs and US economic growth, I think we will get better results when negotiations have failed if the government intervenes, perhaps with tariffs, to protect US jobs and US economic growth, and that is exactly what President Trump is doing.

On a pragmatic level, I think the whole "unfair" trade deals is nothing more than political talking points.

Look at where we are under these "unfair" deals...all of which are still in effect, Trump has not changed a one yet.

We are 117 months into the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country.
We are 100 months into the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.
We are basically at full employment.
We have more jobs than people to fill them.
Until the trade war started we had record setting markets.

How can we be getting screwed as much as we are told when all those things are happening?

There are two issues I can see in your post: why is the stock market going down when the economic news is so good; and since the economy is doing so well despite China's trade policies, why bother correcting them?
The answer to the first is the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty and both the Fed and the media have been flooding us with predictions of a dismal future, all of which have failed to materialize. First the Fed raises interest rates and raises fears of inflation, but has since revised this assessment, then the media flooded us with reports the tax reform would increase the deficit, but in fact, federal tax revenues have increased since the reform went into effect, and then the media treated us with predictions we were heading into another recession, but as the economic news continued to be very good, they stopped pushing that prediction and then they predicted that job creation would slow down in December and January, saying it wouldn't even reach the important 200,000 job level, but it exceeded 300,000 jobs both months and these included the highest number of manufacturing jobs since the boom years of the 1990's. How could the media reports have been so consistently wrong? In any case, the media gave the stock market many (false) reasons to worry about the economy, and the stability loving uncertainty hating stock market responded by ignoring the economic news and bracing for the impact of the false reports in the media.

The answer to the second issue, why be concerned with China's trade policies since we are already doing so well, is we can do better if China reforms its policies and so far at least, there seems to be no down side to pushing China to do so.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Trump's trade war is all ego theater. The farmers voted for him, so their losses can simply be regarded as their admission price to the show. Frankly, they are getting what they asked for, and should quit their bitching.

Trump is taking care of them. An extra 12 billion dollars on top of the 20 they get each year. He even called back FSA workers during the shutdown to make sure the farmers felt as little pain as possible

 

[FA_Q2]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

But it is the government that is fucking them up with an ill advised trade war that has shown no benefit yet.

It is not the government place to try and influence what I buy and do not buy. Taxes (and a tariff is nothing but a tax) should have the sole purpose of raising revenue , they should not be used for social engineering or to influence the populous to act a certain way.

Which of these current terrible things happening in the US do you hope this trade war ends...

117 months of economic expansion? Is that too long for you, you want it to end?
100 months of positive job growth? Is that too many jobs for you?
We are basically at full employment. Would you like the UE rate to go back up?
We have more jobs than people to fill them. Should we have more people than jobs?

Tariffs are more complex than a tax though. They are justified as a tool when dealing with bad actors as China is.

Is this specific instance a good thing? I am not confident it is but really only because I don't think Trump is likely to get any real concessions from China. I do think that we need to leverage the power of our markets though to ensure not just open competition but FAIR open competition. That is what tariffs are for.

 

[danielpalos]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

only right wingers, do that.

 

[bendog]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

But it is the government that is fucking them up with an ill advised trade war that has shown no benefit yet.

It is not the government place to try and influence what I buy and do not buy. Taxes (and a tariff is nothing but a tax) should have the sole purpose of raising revenue , they should not be used for social engineering or to influence the populous to act a certain way.

Which of these current terrible things happening in the US do you hope this trade war ends...

117 months of economic expansion? Is that too long for you, you want it to end?
100 months of positive job growth? Is that too many jobs for you?
We are basically at full employment. Would you like the UE rate to go back up?
We have more jobs than people to fill them. Should we have more people than jobs?

Ah well there you have it. For 40 years the gop agreed with you. The point of taxes was not to influence what you buy, to make it more expensive or to dictate where it was made.

If you still want to live that way, you can't be a republican anymore.

 

[sparky]

Trump's trade war is all ego theater. The farmers voted for him, so their losses can simply be regarded as their admission price to the show.

This farm boy didn't Van

and you know why?

becuse elites like Trump have thier din din served to them by farmers , yet would never so much as vacuum up the breadcrumbs of it all

~S~

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The answer to the first is the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty and both the Fed and the media have been flooding us with predictions of a dismal future, all of which have failed to materialize. First the Fed raises interest rates and raises fears of inflation, but has since revised this assessment, then the media flooded us with reports the tax reform would increase the deficit, but in fact, federal tax revenues have increased since the reform went into effect, and then the media treated us with predictions we were heading into another recession, but as the economic news continued to be very good, they stopped pushing that prediction and then they predicted that job creation would slow down in December and January, saying it wouldn't even reach the important 200,000 job level, but it exceeded 300,000 jobs both months and these included the highest number of manufacturing jobs since the boom years of the 1990's. How could the media reports have been so consistently wrong? In any case, the media gave the stock market many (false) reasons to worry about the economy, and the stability loving uncertainty hating stock market responded by ignoring the economic news and bracing for the impact of the false reports in the media.

The people that make the decisions that move the market do not have such a superficial view of things, they do not rely on the network news for their decision making.

A few things for you...

Between Jan and Nov (the time frame the tax cut was in place) tax revenue grew by a whopping 0.0015% compared to the year before. We will find out next week if December taxes will keep that small growth or not.

During the same time period in 2017 (Jan - Nov) tax revenue grew by 3.3% compared to the previous year. So, at best the tax cuts cost us 3.2985% growth in tax revenue.

So, while a huge April allowed the predictions of the tax cuts decreasing revenue not to be true, it was by the skin of their teeth. And keep in mind that April is the month all the people that owed taxes from the previous year pay their remaining tax obligation, so April was huge not because of the tax cut but because of 2017 taxes.

When the jobs report came out, the market went up a little bit, but not enough to over come the trade war.

You are right that the stock market loves stability and hates uncertainty, but what is causing the vast majority of the uncertainty is the trade war, not fluff pieces in the MSM

 

[Harpy Eagle]

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.

But it is the government that is fucking them up with an ill advised trade war that has shown no benefit yet.

It is not the government place to try and influence what I buy and do not buy. Taxes (and a tariff is nothing but a tax) should have the sole purpose of raising revenue , they should not be used for social engineering or to influence the populous to act a certain way.

Which of these current terrible things happening in the US do you hope this trade war ends...

117 months of economic expansion? Is that too long for you, you want it to end?
100 months of positive job growth? Is that too many jobs for you?
We are basically at full employment. Would you like the UE rate to go back up?
We have more jobs than people to fill them. Should we have more people than jobs?

Ah well there you have it. For 40 years the gop agreed with you. The point of taxes was not to influence what you buy, to make it more expensive or to dictate where it was made.

If you still want to live that way, you can't be a republican anymore.

I have not been a Republican since 1992, ever since one of them told me to read his lips and then lied through those lips

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Tariffs are more complex than a tax though. They are justified as a tool when dealing with bad actors as China is.

Is this specific instance a good thing? I am not confident it is but really only because I don't think Trump is likely to get any real concessions from China. I do think that we need to leverage the power of our markets though to ensure not just open competition but FAIR open competition. That is what tariffs are for.

Tariffs are the government picking and choosing winners and losers. Tariff this, do not tariff that...

Do not take this the wrong way as it is not directed at you personally, but "fair", is a myth, fair does not exist except in fairy tales (forgive the pun). Fair is always in the eye of the beholder, thus it never really exist.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial to all parties involved...not "fair".

So, the question one has to ask is has the US benefited from our current trade deals?

Then one would need to look at the state of the country and the economy and answer that question.

 

[22lcidw]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

We have moved way past "short term" here...we are going on more than a year of market malaise...

Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the DJI is down 3.36%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the NADAQ is up 0.86%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the S&Pis down 3.90%

Over the last few months just about every major swing in the market has been tied to the trade war, either good news brings it up or bad news brings it down.

The tariffs are designed to take a little from growth to push for more manufacturing jobs. We were sold a hill of beans decades ago abotu the service economy being the future and it is not. From what I read about ten million manufacturing jobs have been lost and mostly males worked them earning a bir more the the service jobs pay.

 

[sparky]

So, the question one has to ask is has the US benefited from our current trade deals?

Then one would need to look at the state of the country and the economy and answer that question.

I would opine the effects of one are not immediately releveant to the other GG

~S~

 

[tyroneweaver]

add farmers to the list of voters who will shun Trump.

after getting rid of the death tax????
I dont' think so.

 

[FA_Q2]

Tariffs are more complex than a tax though. They are justified as a tool when dealing with bad actors as China is.

Is this specific instance a good thing? I am not confident it is but really only because I don't think Trump is likely to get any real concessions from China. I do think that we need to leverage the power of our markets though to ensure not just open competition but FAIR open competition. That is what tariffs are for.

Tariffs are the government picking and choosing winners and losers. Tariff this, do not tariff that...

Do not take this the wrong way as it is not directed at you personally, but "fair", is a myth, fair does not exist except in fairy tales (forgive the pun). Fair is always in the eye of the beholder, thus it never really exist.

Trade deals should be mutually beneficial to all parties involved...not "fair".

So, the question one has to ask is has the US benefited from our current trade deals?

Then one would need to look at the state of the country and the economy and answer that question.

I will not take it the wrong way - I actually agree that fair is nothing more than a fairy tail. Perhaps that is a bad way of sating it but that does not really change my point. China is a bad actor and there is much for us to be gained by leveraging our markets. IP is one area already pointed out in this thread. And yes, there is an argument to be made that it is beneficial to encourage growth and investment within the country rather than crating a market that encourages outsourcing manufacturing.

 

[g5000]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

The farmers who were hurt by our tariffs were targeted by China in a vain attempt to pressure him into ending his demands for China to end the theft of US intellectual property and its restrictive laws preventing US companies from operating freely in Chinese markets, but China has apparently abandoned that tactic.

CHINA is back buying more US soybeans just days after the last round of purchases by the world's top importer.

State-run buyer Cofco Corp bought almost 1 million tonnes of the oilseed, while Sinograin purchased more than a million tonnes, the two companies said in separate statements on Tuesday. That follows an announcement on Saturday that they had purchased 2 million tonnes from America after officials from the two countries met in Washington for trade negotiations.

On Monday, the Chinese state-run companies were seeking soybean for shipment from both ports in the US Gulf and the Pacific Northwest, according to people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified because the information is private. The cargoes sought were for shipment around the summer months, the people said.

American exporters sold 2.603 million tonnes of soybeans to China for delivery by Aug 31, the US Department of Agriculture said on Tuesday. That's the third-largest daily transaction in the agency's records. On Monday, the USDA reported sales of 612,000 tonnes for the same period.

China buying more US soy just days after last spree

China is not buying as much soybean as they have before the trade war.

And Trump told a massive whopper of a lie when he said they were buying five million tons A DAY.

But what's another lie by Trump among friends on top of the many thousands he tells the credulous rubes?

 

[22lcidw]

Trump's trade war is all ego theater. The farmers voted for him, so their losses can simply be regarded as their admission price to the show.

This farm boy didn't Van

and you know why?

becuse elites like Trump have thier din din served to them by farmers , yet would never so much as vacuum up the breadcrumbs of it all

~S~

Government money art! I am waiting ne with Nancy getting chitt on and having drug needles perforate her skin.