Trump threatens to shut down farms.

[toomuchtime_]

My mistake, but the principle is the same. Chinese exports are less competitive as compared with exports from other countries or domestic products and the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars from the tariffs. Either way, it is a win for America; either the Treasury receives billions of dollars from the tariffs or China opens its markets to US companies and that will create even more economic growth and more jobs. As usual, good news for America is seen as bad news by the Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

Yes, the principle is the same, the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars in taxes from our own citizens, just the sort of thing a statist like you would think is a good thing.

Never took a course in economics? As the price of Chinese goods rises, consumers will prefer competitive products rather than pay the higher price. This will mean to keep its market share and jobs back in China, Chinese manufacturers will have to lower their prices to accommodate the tariffs. Americans will be well served both as consumers and taxpayers. Clearly, good news for America is seen as bad news by Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

 

[Siete]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Never took a course in economics? As the price of Chinese goods rises, consumers will prefer competitive products rather than pay the higher price. This will mean to keep its market share and jobs back in China, Chinese manufacturers will have to lower their prices to accommodate the tariffs. Americans will be well served both as consumers and taxpayers. Clearly, good news for America is seen as bad news by Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

I did take a course in economics, and like most things in college it was high on theory and devoid of reality.

I do not support tariffs nor subsidies, both are the government picking and choosing winners and losers. I do not want the government trying to force me to buy a particular product or company by making the other one more expensive. That is not the job of the government in my view.

 

[Siete]

My mistake, but the principle is the same. Chinese exports are less competitive as compared with exports from other countries or domestic products and the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars from the tariffs. Either way, it is a win for America; either the Treasury receives billions of dollars from the tariffs or China opens its markets to US companies and that will create even more economic growth and more jobs. As usual, good news for America is seen as bad news by the Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

Yes, the principle is the same, the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars in taxes from our own citizens, just the sort of thing a statist like you would think is a good thing.

Never took a course in economics? As the price of Chinese goods rises, consumers will prefer competitive products rather than pay the higher price. This will mean to keep its market share and jobs back in China, Chinese manufacturers will have to lower their prices to accommodate the tariffs. Americans will be well served both as consumers and taxpayers. Clearly, good news for America is seen as bad news by Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

Trump's Tariffs Will Hurt American Consumers, Workers And U.S. Banks

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Not to mention, we are not talking about short term here, we are 381 days into basically flat or negative markets. That is 381 days that people's 401ks have not had much growth, 381 days that will never be made up, they are just lost days and lost gains over a stupid ass trade war that has yielded nothing positive so far.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Never took a course in economics? As the price of Chinese goods rises, consumers will prefer competitive products rather than pay the higher price. This will mean to keep its market share and jobs back in China, Chinese manufacturers will have to lower their prices to accommodate the tariffs. Americans will be well served both as consumers and taxpayers. Clearly, good news for America is seen as bad news by Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

I did take a course in economics, and like most things in college it was high on theory and devoid of reality.

I do not support tariffs nor subsidies, both are the government picking and choosing winners and losers. I do not want the government trying to force me to buy a particular product or company by making the other one more expensive. That is not the job of the government in my view.

Your perspective appears to be ideological while mine is pragmatic. In general, I believe we get more economic growth if the government restricts itself, to the extent possible and consistent with its other obligations to only facilitating commerce and not trying to direct it, but when our economy is threatened by a foreign country practicing aggressive and unfair trade policies that threaten US jobs and US economic growth, I think we will get better results when negotiations have failed if the government intervenes, perhaps with tariffs, to protect US jobs and US economic growth, and that is exactly what President Trump is doing.

 

[DustyInfinity]

Curious, Gator, since you are in the Ag business, do you think crop insurance subsidies are directly comparable to the other business sectors? I know you are trying to prove a point that you think republicans are hippocrits. Crop insurance seems like a unique situation since you are relying on nature and chance for a crop. What would happen to crop production and prices without such insurance? Is it a fair comparison to retail or manufacturing? Does attacking farming really support republicans are hippocrits?

 

[progressive hunter]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm sorry that trump's economic policies are hurting farmers so much. They feed the nation and help feed the world. They shouldn't be the pawns in trump's irresponsible economic policies.

However, they voted for this. They're getting what they voted for.

Those of us who eat the food they grow didn't vote for it but we are also paying for it with much higher prices for goods and services.

It doesn't stop at farmers. It's a whole domino effect. Farmers can't buy equipment or goods because they don't have the money for it and the price of the product is too low to have profits. Thus those industries see lower revenues and a snowball effect leads to lost jobs and lay offs.

I find it very ironic that the same people who scream how evil socialism is are now very much dependent on socialism to get them through trump's very irresponsible trade and economic policies. They have their hands out for federal tax dollars which is socialism. That's on top of all the socialism they already get from the farm bill.

Welfare , of ANY form , is not socialism.

sorry but welfare in all forms is socialism

 

[Likkmee]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm sorry that trump's economic policies are hurting farmers so much. They feed the nation and help feed the world. They shouldn't be the pawns in trump's irresponsible economic policies.

However, they voted for this. They're getting what they voted for.

Those of us who eat the food they grow didn't vote for it but we are also paying for it with much higher prices for goods and services.

It doesn't stop at farmers. It's a whole domino effect. Farmers can't buy equipment or goods because they don't have the money for it and the price of the product is too low to have profits. Thus those industries see lower revenues and a snowball effect leads to lost jobs and lay offs.

I find it very ironic that the same people who scream how evil socialism is are now very much dependent on socialism to get them through trump's very irresponsible trade and economic policies. They have their hands out for federal tax dollars which is socialism. That's on top of all the socialism they already get from the farm bill.

Welfare , of ANY form , is not socialism.

sorry but welfare in all forms is socialism

I agree ! Shut down the VA !!! Let'em get Osama "care"

 

[progressive hunter]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm sorry that trump's economic policies are hurting farmers so much. They feed the nation and help feed the world. They shouldn't be the pawns in trump's irresponsible economic policies.

However, they voted for this. They're getting what they voted for.

Those of us who eat the food they grow didn't vote for it but we are also paying for it with much higher prices for goods and services.

It doesn't stop at farmers. It's a whole domino effect. Farmers can't buy equipment or goods because they don't have the money for it and the price of the product is too low to have profits. Thus those industries see lower revenues and a snowball effect leads to lost jobs and lay offs.

I find it very ironic that the same people who scream how evil socialism is are now very much dependent on socialism to get them through trump's very irresponsible trade and economic policies. They have their hands out for federal tax dollars which is socialism. That's on top of all the socialism they already get from the farm bill.

Welfare , of ANY form , is not socialism.

sorry but welfare in all forms is socialism

I agree ! Shut down the VA !!! Let'em get Osama "care"

thats not welfare

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Your perspective appears to be ideological while mine is pragmatic.

Yes, and my ideology is that the smaller the government and the less interference the better off we all are.

It is also pragmatic in that there is a direct negative correlation between government interference and personal liberties...the more of the former, the less of the latter.

In general, I believe we get more economic growth if the government restricts itself, to the extent possible and consistent with its other obligations to only facilitating commerce and not trying to direct it, but when our economy is threatened by a foreign country practicing aggressive and unfair trade policies that threaten US jobs and US economic growth, I think we will get better results when negotiations have failed if the government intervenes, perhaps with tariffs, to protect US jobs and US economic growth, and that is exactly what President Trump is doing.

On a pragmatic level, I think the whole "unfair" trade deals is nothing more than political talking points.

Look at where we are under these "unfair" deals...all of which are still in effect, Trump has not changed a one yet.

We are 117 months into the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country.
We are 100 months into the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.
We are basically at full employment.
We have more jobs than people to fill them.
Until the trade war started we had record setting markets.

How can we be getting screwed as much as we are told when all those things are happening?

 

[DandyDonovan]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm sorry that trump's economic policies are hurting farmers so much. They feed the nation and help feed the world. They shouldn't be the pawns in trump's irresponsible economic policies.

However, they voted for this. They're getting what they voted for.

Those of us who eat the food they grow didn't vote for it but we are also paying for it with much higher prices for goods and services.

It doesn't stop at farmers. It's a whole domino effect. Farmers can't buy equipment or goods because they don't have the money for it and the price of the product is too low to have profits. Thus those industries see lower revenues and a snowball effect leads to lost jobs and lay offs.

I find it very ironic that the same people who scream how evil socialism is are now very much dependent on socialism to get them through trump's very irresponsible trade and economic policies. They have their hands out for federal tax dollars which is socialism. That's on top of all the socialism they already get from the farm bill.

Welfare , of ANY form , is not socialism.

sorry but welfare in all forms is socialism

Take a fucking economics course, welfare has nothing to do with socialism.

 

[toomuchtime_]

My mistake, but the principle is the same. Chinese exports are less competitive as compared with exports from other countries or domestic products and the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars from the tariffs. Either way, it is a win for America; either the Treasury receives billions of dollars from the tariffs or China opens its markets to US companies and that will create even more economic growth and more jobs. As usual, good news for America is seen as bad news by the Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

Yes, the principle is the same, the Treasury is receiving billions of dollars in taxes from our own citizens, just the sort of thing a statist like you would think is a good thing.

Never took a course in economics? As the price of Chinese goods rises, consumers will prefer competitive products rather than pay the higher price. This will mean to keep its market share and jobs back in China, Chinese manufacturers will have to lower their prices to accommodate the tariffs. Americans will be well served both as consumers and taxpayers. Clearly, good news for America is seen as bad news by Democrats while Trump is in the WH.

Trump's Tariffs Will Hurt American Consumers, Workers And U.S. Banks

The article concedes that China's trade policies are aggressive and unfair and are costing the US jobs and economic growth, and it presumes the tariffs will have no effect on China's policies, but I believe that is naive. If China refuses to reform its policies President Trump will continue to raise the tariffs until they are costing China more than its unfair policies are earning it. The Chinese are quite rational and at some point they will make concessions on opening their markets to US exports and US companies. In the meantime media reports may make some people nervous, the US economy continues to grow at a robust rate and US job growth continues at rates far exceeding expectations.

 

[progressive hunter]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

I'm sorry that trump's economic policies are hurting farmers so much. They feed the nation and help feed the world. They shouldn't be the pawns in trump's irresponsible economic policies.

However, they voted for this. They're getting what they voted for.

Those of us who eat the food they grow didn't vote for it but we are also paying for it with much higher prices for goods and services.

It doesn't stop at farmers. It's a whole domino effect. Farmers can't buy equipment or goods because they don't have the money for it and the price of the product is too low to have profits. Thus those industries see lower revenues and a snowball effect leads to lost jobs and lay offs.

I find it very ironic that the same people who scream how evil socialism is are now very much dependent on socialism to get them through trump's very irresponsible trade and economic policies. They have their hands out for federal tax dollars which is socialism. That's on top of all the socialism they already get from the farm bill.

Welfare , of ANY form , is not socialism.

sorry but welfare in all forms is socialism

Take a fucking economics course, welfare has nothing to do with socialism.

I dont need to be told what to think from some socialist prof,,,

when you steal from one group and give to another is 1 aspect of socialism

 

[DandyDonovan]

Your perspective appears to be ideological while mine is pragmatic.

Yes, and my ideology is that the smaller the government and the less interference the better off we all are.

It is also pragmatic in that there is a direct negative correlation between government interference and personal liberties...the more of the former, the less of the latter.

In general, I believe we get more economic growth if the government restricts itself, to the extent possible and consistent with its other obligations to only facilitating commerce and not trying to direct it, but when our economy is threatened by a foreign country practicing aggressive and unfair trade policies that threaten US jobs and US economic growth, I think we will get better results when negotiations have failed if the government intervenes, perhaps with tariffs, to protect US jobs and US economic growth, and that is exactly what President Trump is doing.

On a pragmatic level, I think the whole "unfair" trade deals is nothing more than political talking points.

Look at where we are under these "unfair" deals...all of which are still in effect, Trump has not changed a one yet.

We are 117 months into the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country.
We are 100 months into the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.
We are basically at full employment.
We have more jobs than people to fill them.
Until the trade war started we had record setting markets.

How can we be getting screwed as much as we are told when all those things are happening?

Dude EVERY serious person agrees that other countries have been trading unfairly with us for decades. They don't dispute that point. The dispute has always solely been on how to react to that. Up until now the response has been to ignore it.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Curious, Gator, since you are in the Ag business, do you think crop insurance subsidies are directly comparable to the other business sectors? I know you are trying to prove a point that you think republicans are hippocrits. Crop insurance seems like a unique situation since you are relying on nature and chance for a crop. What would happen to crop production and prices without such insurance? Is it a fair comparison to retail or manufacturing? Does attacking farming really support republicans are hippocrits?

It is far more than crop insurance that farmers get.

The get conservation payments for not growing things on their land.
They got 12 billion dollars to offset the damage of the trade war.
Our dairy industry gets more than 75% of their revenue from government subsidies.

Here is a list of some of what they get.,,,Agricultural Subsidies

I am not attacking farmers, why do you keep telling the same lie?

I understand the philosophy behind why we do what we do, but think it is far too much. The main purpose of what we give to farmers is to keep food prices level, not to have massive jumps and drops based only on the weather.

But no matter how you look at it, it is still a redistribution of wealth, there is no other term for it.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Your perspective appears to be ideological while mine is pragmatic.

Yes, and my ideology is that the smaller the government and the less interference the better off we all are.

It is also pragmatic in that there is a direct negative correlation between government interference and personal liberties...the more of the former, the less of the latter.

In general, I believe we get more economic growth if the government restricts itself, to the extent possible and consistent with its other obligations to only facilitating commerce and not trying to direct it, but when our economy is threatened by a foreign country practicing aggressive and unfair trade policies that threaten US jobs and US economic growth, I think we will get better results when negotiations have failed if the government intervenes, perhaps with tariffs, to protect US jobs and US economic growth, and that is exactly what President Trump is doing.

On a pragmatic level, I think the whole "unfair" trade deals is nothing more than political talking points.

Look at where we are under these "unfair" deals...all of which are still in effect, Trump has not changed a one yet.

We are 117 months into the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country.
We are 100 months into the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.
We are basically at full employment.
We have more jobs than people to fill them.
Until the trade war started we had record setting markets.

How can we be getting screwed as much as we are told when all those things are happening?

Dude EVERY serious person agrees that other countries have been trading unfairly with us for decades. They don't dispute that point. The dispute has always solely been on how to react to that. Up until now the response has been to ignore it.

Yes, we have been told for a couple decades by the powers that be that we are getting screwed, it is a normal part of every political campaign.

How did all these things happen if we are getting fucked so badly? Can you answer that?

We are 117 months into the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in the history of our country.
We are 100 months into the longest period of positive job growth in the history of the country.
We are basically at full employment.
We have more jobs than people to fill them.
Until the trade war started we had record setting markets.

 

[FA_Q2]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

We have moved way past "short term" here...we are going on more than a year of market malaise...

Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the DJI is down 3.36%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the NADAQ is up 0.86%
Since the day that Trump issued his first tariffs in the trade war, 381 days ago, the S&Pis down 3.90%

Over the last few months just about every major swing in the market has been tied to the trade war, either good news brings it up or bad news brings it down.

Again, this is short term. I could care less what the stocks do in the interim while the trade deals are being worked out - even if that is a 2 year process. What matters is where we end up. Don't get me wrong, I am not stating that there are not issues with a trade war and that there are not costs - I just don't think that the stock price matters at all. The costs are in the damage done to businesses, jobs, product prices, product availability and so on. Stocks don't reflect the real impacts - they reflect what people THINK those impacts are going to be and that is an important distinction.

A better way to make my point, I think, may be to say that this thread should be pointing out real impacts rather than focusing on overall stock performance as that is trivial.

 

[Likkmee]

Curious, Gator, since you are in the Ag business, do you think crop insurance subsidies are directly comparable to the other business sectors? I know you are trying to prove a point that you think republicans are hippocrits. Crop insurance seems like a unique situation since you are relying on nature and chance for a crop. What would happen to crop production and prices without such insurance? Is it a fair comparison to retail or manufacturing? Does attacking farming really support republicans are hippocrits?

It is far more than crop insurance that farmers get.

The get conservation payments for not growing things on their land.
They got 12 billion dollars to offset the damage of the trade war.
Our dairy industry gets more than 75% of their revenue from government subsidies.

Here is a list of some of what they get.,,,Agricultural Subsidies

I am not attacking farmers, why do you keep telling the same lie?

I understand the philosophy behind why we do what we do, but think it is far too much. The main purpose of what we give to farmers is to keep food prices level, not to have massive jumps and drops based only on the weather.

But no matter how you look at it, it is still a redistribution of wealth, there is no other term for it.

OK OK. I have a plan. Pay them to plant yellow bamboo on the border ! You'll hear the chopping in NY !

 

[FA_Q2]

I made that OP with easy in mind. LOL

Actually, a more honest title might be pressure grows on Trump to wrap up the China trade dispute. And that may not be good news for getting China to stop stealing intellectual property

Farmers nearing crisis push back on Trump trade policies

and yet we have this...

Stocks slump after report says Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping are 'highly unlikely' to meet before a critical trade war deadline | Markets Insider

People pay WAY to much attention to short term stock prices - they are utterly meaningless.

I disagree - older people that suffer losses may not have ample time to make them up longterm.

Then tough for them. You are responsible for your investments - if you do not have the ability to wait long term then you should not be in investments that require long terms to ensure real gains.