Trump's "final offer" for peace requires Ukraine to accept Russian occupation

[kyzr]

Trump has already tossed Ukraine under da bus, so his whining "Vladimer please stop" would be amusing if people weren't dying since he already gave "Vladimer" what he wanted - an unarmed ukraine.

Bullshit. Link please.

But Biden should have told these apparently deluded folks that they didn't win, they won't win, and make the damn deal because, unless the EU wants to kick in billions of weapons they don't have and cannot currently make, it's the only deal on the table.

Who are the "apparently deluded folks"? What "damn deal"?

 

[martybegan]

Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, before that it was Russian.
Putin wants to take all parts of Ukraine that speaks primarily Russian.

The issue is many areas in Ukraine also involved the whole "move the poles and the Russians and the Ukrainians and the Germans and the Cossacks around" shit that went on from the 30's into the 50's, and especially when all the borders got moved around in 1945.

Just using 1954 as a marker doesn't cover the whole situation in the area.

The Germans and Poles came to an understanding after German Reunifcation, the old Soviet states didn't get that chance.

 

[IM2]

Trump has already tossed Ukraine under da bus, so his whining "Vladimer please stop" would be amusing if people weren't dying since he already gave "Vladimer" what he wanted - an unarmed ukraine.

But Biden should have told these apparently deluded folks that they didn't win, they won't win, and make the damn deal because, unless the EU wants to kick in billions of weapons they don't have and cannot currently make, it's the only deal on the table.

But they were kicking Russis ass, and they shouldn't be forced to give up their country.

 

[martybegan]

But they were kicking Russis ass, and they shouldn't be forced to give up their country.

You aren't kicking someone's ass when they occupy large parts of your country.

 

[IM2]

When Iraq invaded Kuwait, we didn't break a deal to give them Kuwait. Th
this is a bs deal that Zelensky should decline.

It doesn't matter who was president when Russia invaded Crimea. they stayed in Crimea during Trumps first presidency also.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It was Ukrainian in 2014, and they sent troops in.

They may end up with it, but they didn't start with it.

It was Ukrainian until a vote was permitted.

 

[martybegan]

It was Ukrainian until a vote was permitted.

What vote?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

What vote?

This one

Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

Election officials say 95.5% of Crimean voters back joining Russia in a disputed referendum, with half the ballots counted.

www.bbc.com

 

[martybegan]

This one

Crimea referendum: Voters 'back Russia union'

Election officials say 95.5% of Crimean voters back joining Russia in a disputed referendum, with half the ballots counted.

www.bbc.com

95.5%

After Russian forces took over the area?

LOL

 

[EvilCat Breath]

95.5%

After Russian forces took over the area?

LOL

You must not know very much about that region. There is no other explanation.

 

[ThisIsMe]

‘The U.S. expects Ukraine's response Wednesday to a peace framework that includes U.S. recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and unofficial recognition of Russian control of nearly all areas occupied since the 2022 invasion, sources with direct knowledge of the proposal tell Axios.

What Russia gets under Trump's proposal

"De jure" U.S. recognition of Russian control in Crimea.

"De-facto recognition" of the Russia's occupation of nearly all of Luhansk oblast and the occupied portions of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

A promise that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The text notes that Ukraine could become part of the European Union.

The lifting of sanctions imposed since 2014.

Enhanced economic cooperation with the U.S., particularly in the energy and industrial’

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/22/trump-russia-ukraine-peace-plan-crimea-donbas

Trump wants to reward his friend and ally Putin for launching an illegal invasion killing thousands, including civilians; that Trump wants to appease a war criminal comes as no surprise, Trump’s a criminal himself – Trump, forever Putin’s useful idiot.

What are the odds that the demand could be a full retreat, by Russia, from all areas of Ukraine, and they would accept it? What leverage do we have that we could make them do that?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

‘The U.S. expects Ukraine's response Wednesday to a peace framework that includes U.S. recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and unofficial recognition of Russian control of nearly all areas occupied since the 2022 invasion, sources with direct knowledge of the proposal tell Axios.

What Russia gets under Trump's proposal

"De jure" U.S. recognition of Russian control in Crimea.

"De-facto recognition" of the Russia's occupation of nearly all of Luhansk oblast and the occupied portions of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

A promise that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The text notes that Ukraine could become part of the European Union.

The lifting of sanctions imposed since 2014.

Enhanced economic cooperation with the U.S., particularly in the energy and industrial’

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/22/trump-russia-ukraine-peace-plan-crimea-donbas

Trump wants to reward his friend and ally Putin for launching an illegal invasion killing thousands, including civilians; that Trump wants to appease a war criminal comes as no surprise, Trump’s a criminal himself – Trump, forever Putin’s useful idiot.

sad that you and reality are no longer speaking to each other

 

[sartre play]

Near as I can tell the only thing Ukraine gets from this deal is to lose.

AGREE. All they wanted was to be like America, Free to run their own country.
NOT ruled by a war mongering dictator.

 

[konradv]

You propose a dictatorship and tyranny? Force ethnic Russians back to Ukraine and they will be massacres in the streets. This, to you, is better than an election. What will happen is a new front opening in the Russian - Ukrainian war.

MAGA lies.

 

[bendog]

AGREE. All they wanted was to be like America, Free to run their own country.
NOT ruled by a war mongering dictator.

yeah, but Kyiv didn't poll all that well in the East. I just think they'll have an easier time fully transistioning to a market economy in the EU if they allow the folks who want the Russian economy to walk away.

Of course, Putin can do a deal, and just invade them again in Trump's final year.

 

[Rigby5]

Let us not forget who was POTUS when his good buddy Putin unilaterally occupied Crimea. In case you forgot, that was Obama. Try again.

The Crimea should not even ever have become part of the Ukraine, and that was a whim by Khruschev in 1953, because he secretly was a Ukrainian.

 

[Rigby5]

Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, before that it was Russian.
Putin wants to take all parts of Ukraine that speaks primarily Russian.

And more importantly, Putin can never allow Kyiv to put NATO nukes on Russia's border.

 

[Rigby5]

It was Ukrainian in 2014, and they sent troops in.

They may end up with it, but they didn't start with it.

Wrong.
The Crimea was historically always Russian.
The only time it wasn't was after the Mongol invasion around 1200 turned it into the Khanate for a couple hundred years.

 

[Rigby5]

AGREE. All they wanted was to be like America, Free to run their own country.
NOT ruled by a war mongering dictator.

There is no such thing as the Ukraine or a Ukrainian.
There is just Russia and Poland, and the Ukraine is the "contested land" between them, that originally was entirely part of Russia.

 

[TemplarKormac]

1000% tariffs on all Russian goods until they come to the table in earnest?

I've seen crazier shit happen.