Trump's "final offer" for peace requires Ukraine to accept Russian occupation

[kyzr]

But that was established before Putin even became president.

Ukraine's Long Path toward NATO - American Diplomacy​

Aug 1, 2024 — In January 1994, Ukraine became one of the first former Soviet and former Warsaw Pact states to join NATO's Partnership for Peace.

What was established before Putin?
Ukraine was never formally admitted into NATO.
There was the Budapest Memorandum, whereby Ukraine gave up its nukes for security guarantees from NATO countries, but that didn't stop Putin from invading.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Hollie]

‘The U.S. expects Ukraine's response Wednesday to a peace framework that includes U.S. recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and unofficial recognition of Russian control of nearly all areas occupied since the 2022 invasion, sources with direct knowledge of the proposal tell Axios.

What Russia gets under Trump's proposal

"De jure" U.S. recognition of Russian control in Crimea.

"De-facto recognition" of the Russia's occupation of nearly all of Luhansk oblast and the occupied portions of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

A promise that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The text notes that Ukraine could become part of the European Union.

The lifting of sanctions imposed since 2014.

Enhanced economic cooperation with the U.S., particularly in the energy and industrial’

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/22/trump-russia-ukraine-peace-plan-crimea-donbas

Trump wants to reward his friend and ally Putin for launching an illegal invasion killing thousands, including civilians; that Trump wants to appease a war criminal comes as no surprise, Trump’s a criminal himself – Trump, forever Putin’s useful idiot.

Such melodrams, Ms. jones. I guess you don’t want to acknowledge that your war criminal hero, Putin, was given an invitation by the Biden corpse for a minor incursion without repercussion.

Democrats are forever Putin’ useful idiots.

 

[Correll]

‘The U.S. expects Ukraine's response Wednesday to a peace framework that includes U.S. recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and unofficial recognition of Russian control of nearly all areas occupied since the 2022 invasion, sources with direct knowledge of the proposal tell Axios.

What Russia gets under Trump's proposal

"De jure" U.S. recognition of Russian control in Crimea.

"De-facto recognition" of the Russia's occupation of nearly all of Luhansk oblast and the occupied portions of Donetsk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

A promise that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. The text notes that Ukraine could become part of the European Union.

The lifting of sanctions imposed since 2014.

Enhanced economic cooperation with the U.S., particularly in the energy and industrial’

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/22/trump-russia-ukraine-peace-plan-crimea-donbas

Trump wants to reward his friend and ally Putin for launching an illegal invasion killing thousands, including civilians; that Trump wants to appease a war criminal comes as no surprise, Trump’s a criminal himself – Trump, forever Putin’s useful idiot.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[Zavulon]

So, basically spreading Putin's message of "split NATO, make the US hate its allies so Russia can dominate"....

You're as obvious as a very obvious thing.

One don't need to make some stupid propaganda when America's and Europe's goals are quite opposite.
It is a fact, and all sober analysts understand it. Possible European domination in NATO, when the Europeans decide who is fighting against Russia and who is not, is much more dangerous for the american citizens' wealth and safety than the system of equal safety and equal rigts, hypothetical Russian domination in eastern Europe or even end of NATO. Thats the point.

 

[frigidweirdo]

One don't need to make some stupid propaganda when America's and Europe's goals are quite opposite.
It is a fact, and all sober analysts understand it. Possible European domination in NATO, when the Europeans decide who is fighting against Russia and who is not, is much more dangerous for the american citizens' wealth and safety than the system of equal safety and equal rigts, hypothetical Russian domination in eastern Europe or even end of NATO. Thats the point.

Don't need to, but it certainly helps when manipulating the US so that its goals are a little more different.

Not opposite, just different.

Cheap warfare.... and you're a soldier in that, a PAID soldier.

 

[Zavulon]

Don't need to, but it certainly helps when manipulating the US so that its goals are a little more different.

Manipulating the US? Really? Me? Even if (very big IF) there are American high-ranked decision-makers here, on USMB, they don't make their decisions based on the silly words of a random Russian guy. They have intelligence services, they have experts, they have think-tanks, they have multibillon sponsors and whatever else. I can't change their mind. And even if I could - everyone else could it do either. And Europe has much more English-speakers than Russia

Not opposite, just different.

When the questions are "Who is the leader of NATO? Who should decide what to do? Who gives the orders? Who follows orders? What should we do with those who disobey orders?" the words "different" and "opposite" seems pretty equal to me. What is much more important - those words seems pretty equal to American and European decision-makers.

Cheap warfare.... and you're a soldier in that, a PAID soldier.

Quite opposite. While we are talking, we are not shooting (at least not launching ICBMs). And no, they don't pay me for talking with you. It's all my pleasure to have so nice conversations and all. English language is such a useful thing in the modern world (and it will be even more useful in the case of war) and I just want to improve it a little. Thank you for your cooperation and providing emotional rewards for my studying process.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Manipulating the US? Really? Me? Even if (very big IF) there are American high-ranked decision-makers here, on USMB, they don't make their decisions based on the silly words of a random Russian guy. They have intelligence services, they have experts, they have think-tanks, they have multibillon sponsors and whatever else. I can't change their mind. And even if I could - everyone else could it do either. And Europe has much more English-speakers than Russia

When the questions are "Who is the leader of NATO? Who should decide what to do? Who gives the orders? Who follows orders? What should we do with those who disobey orders?" the words "different" and "opposite" seems pretty equal to me. What is much more important - those words seems pretty equal to American and European decision-makers.


Quite opposite. While we are talking, we are not shooting (at least not launching ICBMs). And no, they don't pay me for talking with you. It's all my pleasure to have so nice conversations and all. English language is such a useful thing in the modern world (and it will be even more useful in the case of war) and I just want to improve it a little. Thank you for your cooperation and providing emotional rewards for my studying process.

Oh yes, let's pretend you're truly ignorant of Putin's tactics... yeah.

 

[Zavulon]

Oh yes, let's pretend you're truly ignorant of Putin's tactics... yeah.

Enlight me. Tell me, that American citizens and decision-makers are gullible simpletons. Hey, if you don't believe me, why much more informed and motivated (who took their positions for being determined and sober-thinking) guys should? Do you actually believe that they are even more gullible than you?

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

What was established before Putin?

Ukraine independence.

Ukraine was never formally admitted into NATO.
There was the Budapest Memorandum, whereby Ukraine gave up its nukes for security guarantees from NATO countries, but that didn't stop Putin from invading.

I know.

Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[frigidweirdo]

Enlight me. Tell me, that American citizens and decision-makers are gullible simpletons. Hey, if you don't believe me, why much more informed and motivated (who took their positions for being determined and sober-thinking) guys should? Do you actually believe that they are even more gullible than you?

Hey. Here's another post so you can earn.... wait, how much do you earn per reply from Putin?

 

[Zavulon]

Hey. Here's another post so you can earn.... wait, how much do you earn per reply from Putin?

And why do you ask? Do you want this job? Jokes aside even USAID was quite ineffective organisation and pure leak of money. Putin has his "special representatives", like, say, Steven Seagal, and he pays them a lot, but those are guys who really raised in target cultures and have a great social network. And even they are ineffective, too.
I'm far below Putin's (or government's) radar, and it's good because I'm not his greatest fan. And I have no illusions about my capability to change things.