Trump's trade war with China

[pknopp]

But the trade deficit exist due to individual shoppers.

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

You can want it all you want, but we are not going to do it. We blame our problems on everything except for where it belongs. Wall Street/bankers/markets/corporations.

We blame people who want to better themselves for coming here rather than those inviting them here. We blame other countries for our business moving there to take advantage of their low wages. We come up with all kinds of excuses to invade other countries when it's nothing more than a way to boost the markets.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

As has been pointed out, that solves nothing. It simply moves the problem.

 

[charwin95]

You are an anti American.


1. Are you speaking for the rest of poor Americans?

2. You have not solved the trade wars yet. We are already paying high prices.

3. Most or all businesses from different categories trashing inept Trump Trade wars. Are you telling me they are wrong?

4. There will be a loss of jobs and businesses.

5. Negotiations started last year and theres no end insight. No way for that moron to get out.

6. Tariffs are passed on to American consumers. American consumers loss.

7. Name me one business ( except steel industry) or any company that supports Trump foolish trade wars?

IDIOT



More Than 200 Shoe Companies Urge Trump To Cancel New China Tariffs

More Than 200 Shoe Companies Urge Trump To Cancel New China Tariffs

The trade war is resulting in "hidden taxes paid by American individuals and families," the footwear brands wrote.
By Lydia O'Connor
08/28/2019 07:00 PM E

1. No.

2. Totally worth it. If we get the jobs back and keep them forever.

3.Yes. THey have adjusted to the current model, and don't want disruption. THeir goal is short term profits, mine is long term rise in wages and standard of living.

4. Most likely. Until businesses adjust. Then it will improve. If we keep to it.

5. Agreed. Their is really nothing to negotiate. The Chinese have no incentive to give up hundreds of billions of dollars. We should just slap on strong tariffs and keep them there, forever.

6. I am willing to pay more, if it means more and better jobs for Americans. Everyone that voted for Trump, voted for that.

7. Fuck them all. They don't get what they want this time.

1. Your answer is No. So why are you promoting higher prices at the counter? Since when that is acceptable?

2. Jobs are not coming back. You can ask Donnie and Ivanka if they can make their products here in US. The best scenario is they go to other neighboring countries.
Moving business and operations back to US is big business mistakes because of high labor costs. That is not going to happen.

3 and 4. What do you mean short term? These companies are in business for decades making money. Donnie is disrupting all the progress and the economy.
So you are willing to sacrifice people lives and businesses? It will take several years or never to recover from bankruptcy.
It will be like you making money now. Then Donnie comes in and fuck you up. Just like what he did with the US farmers. A lot of those people will never recover.

5. So if Donnie cannot make a deal you will slap them with more tariffs? If that is so easy do you think Donnie could have come out swinging by now?
Americans are paying for the higher tariffs right now. It’s a price we don’t need.
Maybe you don’t even understand the ripple effect to ordinary American lives of this dumb trade wars.

6. You do NOT represent poor Americans. You do NOT represent businesses here in America for you to say that.
Of the 220 millions registered voters only 63+ millions voted for Trump. With all the hatred and disgusting tweets and lies. Do you honestly believe that the 63+ grew or decrease?
I can honestly tells you that lot of his supporters are sick of his ineptness.

7. Life doesn’t work that way. This also proved that Donnie has nothing to do with the current booming economy.
It’s just hard how you can say something like that to your own fellow Americans.
Yes you are anti Americans.

1. Since the jobs did not come back already, the way they were supposed to.

2. Manufacturing has already seen improvements. And I heard in the immediate aftermath of his election, that local manufactures were FLOODED with inquires from foreign businesses looking to move production here to avoid tariffs. It is not happen, because he was not as aggressive as they feared. But it could.


3. Your assumption of a worst case scenario, ie a rapid abrupt change with no transition period, is certainly possible, and even then would be worth the long term good.


5. Not sure of the political difficulties. Hell, I don't know if it is doable at all. But my point stands. Yes, I am in favor of tariffs.

6. Your numbers games are noted and dismissed. My point was that there is a large base of support for this policy in America,and if you want to play numbers games, consider how many Americans support American jobs, but dont' support Trump because of the leftard lies you mentioned.


7. Those of you on your side of this debate, have and still are basically said, "fuck them" to those who have lost out to this policy. CNM, has admitted that the reason he supports this policy is that he hates the Americans who are the ones that lost. He sides with China because he likes them better than white working class Americans.

Your rebuttal From 1 to 7. Are just an anti Americans anti business hurting Americans. Nothing more.

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

But the trade deficit exist due to individual shoppers.

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

We already have mutually beneficial trade with China

 

[charwin95]

You can't tie our wages to trade policy. China isn't telling our companies to pay little. That is an internal issue.

So, companies that lost all their market share because of our trade policy, are supposed to somehow be required to pay their workers more, instead of shutting down?


Your pretense that you can't see the connection between trade policy and wages is not credible.


Are you here for serious discussion, or just to be a troll boy like so many others?

Our companies are doing very well. You even said all the dollars are going to executives and investors. There is plenty of wealth in this country. I gave you many internal reasons why it is not going to workers. Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

The companies are doing well, because they have outsourced, or are importing from foreign manufacturers.


That does not help American workers, or families, or communities.


Thus, trade policy does end up being one of the causes of wage suppression.



YOur denial of this obvious fact, reveals a serious flaw in your whole position.

You seem to be the one in denial. We have tons of wealth and very low unemployment. The issue is clearly internal and I've given you many reason why our wages are lower than they should be. You seem to just want to deny the facts and blame China for no reason. AGAIN, we have lots of wealth and low unemployment. It isn't Chinas fault our companies aren't paying.

these are the same people that blame China for "stealing" our jobs when American companies freely choose to move their operations there.

I am trying VERY VERY hard to understand that myself.

About 85% of my consumables are made in China since the mid 90s.
Trump and Ivanka products are made in China.

Is it China’s fault that we went to China for better profits? I don’t think so.

But some reason people don’t understand that especially the Trump supporters.

 

[charwin95]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Why do I care where something is made? As a consumer I look for the best quality mixed with the best price, the country of origin is of very little concern to me.

America has a million open position more than people to fill them, what more do you want?

I want wages to rise with productivity, like they used to.


And of course you don't care. That is why we craft trade policy to create choices that encourage you to buy American.

I swear to god Correl. I don’t think you know what you are talking about.

 

[Correll]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

You can want it all you want, but we are not going to do it. We blame our problems on everything except for where it belongs. Wall Street/bankers/markets/corporations.

We blame people who want to better themselves for coming here rather than those inviting them here. We blame other countries for our business moving there to take advantage of their low wages. We come up with all kinds of excuses to invade other countries when it's nothing more than a way to boost the markets.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

As has been pointed out, that solves nothing. It simply moves the problem.

1. We might not do any of it. But my position stands, and I have defended it very well. I want Trade Policy that encourages US jobs and wages.


2. YOU made the claim that the reason we don't have mutually beneficial trade with China is because they are not wealthy enough to balance US. I'm willing to deal with that. Trade could continue but at a level where it could be balanced. Why is that not at least a partial solution?

 

[Correll]

1. No.

2. Totally worth it. If we get the jobs back and keep them forever.

3.Yes. THey have adjusted to the current model, and don't want disruption. THeir goal is short term profits, mine is long term rise in wages and standard of living.

4. Most likely. Until businesses adjust. Then it will improve. If we keep to it.

5. Agreed. Their is really nothing to negotiate. The Chinese have no incentive to give up hundreds of billions of dollars. We should just slap on strong tariffs and keep them there, forever.

6. I am willing to pay more, if it means more and better jobs for Americans. Everyone that voted for Trump, voted for that.

7. Fuck them all. They don't get what they want this time.

1. Your answer is No. So why are you promoting higher prices at the counter? Since when that is acceptable?

2. Jobs are not coming back. You can ask Donnie and Ivanka if they can make their products here in US. The best scenario is they go to other neighboring countries.
Moving business and operations back to US is big business mistakes because of high labor costs. That is not going to happen.

3 and 4. What do you mean short term? These companies are in business for decades making money. Donnie is disrupting all the progress and the economy.
So you are willing to sacrifice people lives and businesses? It will take several years or never to recover from bankruptcy.
It will be like you making money now. Then Donnie comes in and fuck you up. Just like what he did with the US farmers. A lot of those people will never recover.

5. So if Donnie cannot make a deal you will slap them with more tariffs? If that is so easy do you think Donnie could have come out swinging by now?
Americans are paying for the higher tariffs right now. It’s a price we don’t need.
Maybe you don’t even understand the ripple effect to ordinary American lives of this dumb trade wars.

6. You do NOT represent poor Americans. You do NOT represent businesses here in America for you to say that.
Of the 220 millions registered voters only 63+ millions voted for Trump. With all the hatred and disgusting tweets and lies. Do you honestly believe that the 63+ grew or decrease?
I can honestly tells you that lot of his supporters are sick of his ineptness.

7. Life doesn’t work that way. This also proved that Donnie has nothing to do with the current booming economy.
It’s just hard how you can say something like that to your own fellow Americans.
Yes you are anti Americans.

1. Since the jobs did not come back already, the way they were supposed to.

2. Manufacturing has already seen improvements. And I heard in the immediate aftermath of his election, that local manufactures were FLOODED with inquires from foreign businesses looking to move production here to avoid tariffs. It is not happen, because he was not as aggressive as they feared. But it could.


3. Your assumption of a worst case scenario, ie a rapid abrupt change with no transition period, is certainly possible, and even then would be worth the long term good.


5. Not sure of the political difficulties. Hell, I don't know if it is doable at all. But my point stands. Yes, I am in favor of tariffs.

6. Your numbers games are noted and dismissed. My point was that there is a large base of support for this policy in America,and if you want to play numbers games, consider how many Americans support American jobs, but dont' support Trump because of the leftard lies you mentioned.


7. Those of you on your side of this debate, have and still are basically said, "fuck them" to those who have lost out to this policy. CNM, has admitted that the reason he supports this policy is that he hates the Americans who are the ones that lost. He sides with China because he likes them better than white working class Americans.

Your rebuttal From 1 to 7. Are just an anti Americans anti business hurting Americans. Nothing more.

My pointing out that the policy of Free Trade, did not have the promised results, and should be changed,


is not anti-American.



You are a liar and an asshole.

I am being honest with the reality. You are coming up with just philosophical and unacceptable opinions.

The end results of your wish are the sufferings of poor Americans. Loosing jobs and businesses and paying higher prices. You are an anti American.

All of that just because how much you adore an inept POTUS.

Except we are already seeing improvements in the manufacturing employment, and I have personal knowledge of inquiries from foreign businesses who were preparing to move production to US manufacturing to avoid tariffs (after Trump was elected).



So, it is a realistic policy option.


The end result would be slightly higher prices for consumers and lower profit margins for the rich, more than balanced out by improved jobs, improved wages and thus healthier families and communities.

 

[Correll]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

We already have mutually beneficial trade with China

No one believes that. Everyone knows it is not true.

 

[Paulie]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Why do I care where something is made? As a consumer I look for the best quality mixed with the best price, the country of origin is of very little concern to me.

America has a million open position more than people to fill them, what more do you want?

Supply and demand should dictate that a glut in labor supply should lead to higher wages. But do you want to know why it probably won’t? Because idiots are going to accept less than they’re worth, like fucking ALWAYS, and then blame it on the employer.

 

[Correll]

So, companies that lost all their market share because of our trade policy, are supposed to somehow be required to pay their workers more, instead of shutting down?


Your pretense that you can't see the connection between trade policy and wages is not credible.


Are you here for serious discussion, or just to be a troll boy like so many others?

Our companies are doing very well. You even said all the dollars are going to executives and investors. There is plenty of wealth in this country. I gave you many internal reasons why it is not going to workers. Many of our companies have near monopolies, wage collusion, non competes, right to work laws, decline in unions... Internally everything has turned on workers. That's is not trades fault.

The companies are doing well, because they have outsourced, or are importing from foreign manufacturers.


That does not help American workers, or families, or communities.


Thus, trade policy does end up being one of the causes of wage suppression.



YOur denial of this obvious fact, reveals a serious flaw in your whole position.

You seem to be the one in denial. We have tons of wealth and very low unemployment. The issue is clearly internal and I've given you many reason why our wages are lower than they should be. You seem to just want to deny the facts and blame China for no reason. AGAIN, we have lots of wealth and low unemployment. It isn't Chinas fault our companies aren't paying.

these are the same people that blame China for "stealing" our jobs when American companies freely choose to move their operations there.

I am trying VERY VERY hard to understand that myself.

About 85% of my consumables are made in China since the mid 90s.
Trump and Ivanka products are made in China.

Is it China’s fault that we went to China for better profits? I don’t think so.

But some reason people don’t understand that especially the Trump supporters.

You are making up shit in your mind that has nothing to do with Trump supporters.

 

[pknopp]

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

You can want it all you want, but we are not going to do it. We blame our problems on everything except for where it belongs. Wall Street/bankers/markets/corporations.

We blame people who want to better themselves for coming here rather than those inviting them here. We blame other countries for our business moving there to take advantage of their low wages. We come up with all kinds of excuses to invade other countries when it's nothing more than a way to boost the markets.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

As has been pointed out, that solves nothing. It simply moves the problem.

1. We might not do any of it. But my position stands, and I have defended it very well. I want Trade Policy that encourages US jobs and wages.

That's fine but that is no longer who we are.

2. YOU made the claim that the reason we don't have mutually beneficial trade with China is because they are not wealthy enough to balance US. I'm willing to deal with that. Trade could continue but at a level where it could be balanced. Why is that not at least a partial solution?

That would require cutting the throats of U.S. manufacturers in China and we aren't going to do that.

 

[Correll]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Why do I care where something is made? As a consumer I look for the best quality mixed with the best price, the country of origin is of very little concern to me.

America has a million open position more than people to fill them, what more do you want?

I want wages to rise with productivity, like they used to.


And of course you don't care. That is why we craft trade policy to create choices that encourage you to buy American.

I swear to god Correl. I don’t think you know what you are talking about.

He asked what I wanted. I told him.


I want wages to rise with productivity, like they used to.


I know what that means. Do you? DO you care?

 

[pknopp]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Why do I care where something is made? As a consumer I look for the best quality mixed with the best price, the country of origin is of very little concern to me.

America has a million open position more than people to fill them, what more do you want?

Supply and demand should dictate that a glut in labor supply should lead to higher wages. But do you want to know why it probably won’t? Because idiots are going to accept less than they’re worth, like fucking ALWAYS, and then blame it on the employer.

Are you suggesting they go on strike?

 

[pknopp]

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

We already have mutually beneficial trade with China

No one believes that. Everyone knows it is not true.

Business believes we do. They aren't happy that their previous agreements are coming back to bite them now though.

 

[Correll]

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

You can want it all you want, but we are not going to do it. We blame our problems on everything except for where it belongs. Wall Street/bankers/markets/corporations.

We blame people who want to better themselves for coming here rather than those inviting them here. We blame other countries for our business moving there to take advantage of their low wages. We come up with all kinds of excuses to invade other countries when it's nothing more than a way to boost the markets.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

As has been pointed out, that solves nothing. It simply moves the problem.

1. We might not do any of it. But my position stands, and I have defended it very well. I want Trade Policy that encourages US jobs and wages.

That's fine but that is no longer who we are.

2. YOU made the claim that the reason we don't have mutually beneficial trade with China is because they are not wealthy enough to balance US. I'm willing to deal with that. Trade could continue but at a level where it could be balanced. Why is that not at least a partial solution?

That would require cutting the throats of U.S. manufacturers in China and we aren't going to do that.

1. Trump ran and won on that issue, so apparently quite a lot of Americans ARE still that. Giving up is always an option, but we can give up later, after we at least try. Why would you not support US? Don't you want to see higher wages for your fellow Americans?


2.YOu are looking for excuses to not support a policy that you know it good for America, because you don't like the President or the people supporting it. Does that about sum it up?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Americans are still going to buy the cheap stuff out of Thailand or wherever manufacturing goes to.

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

We already have mutually beneficial trade with China

No one believes that. Everyone knows it is not true.

Anyone that does not let their politics think for them, knows it is true.

The signs are unmistakable, I have given them to you a dozen times.

 

[Paulie]

With better trade policy, we can encourage American consumers to buy American, and nurture American employment and wages.

Why do I care where something is made? As a consumer I look for the best quality mixed with the best price, the country of origin is of very little concern to me.

America has a million open position more than people to fill them, what more do you want?

Supply and demand should dictate that a glut in labor supply should lead to higher wages. But do you want to know why it probably won’t? Because idiots are going to accept less than they’re worth, like fucking ALWAYS, and then blame it on the employer.

Are you suggesting they go on strike?

We’re talking about people who aren’t even hired yet. There’s a labor supply shortage in America and it’s the perfect time for workers to take a stand and demand what they’re worth before accepting a job... but they won’t. Because employers will try to offer less, like any market transaction where a buyer tries to negotiate a cheaper price, only for whatever reason workers will simply accept that offer and then bitch about the fact that employers didn’t offer more. You realize your labor is a service you’re selling to a buyer (an employer) the way any other service is, correct? If workers continue to just accept the lower offers from employers then what the fuck do you think is going to happen? Workers have the advantage right now and i guarantee you they won’t come out on top because they have no fucking idea how to negotiate. It’s always someone else’s fault.

 

[Correll]

Perhaps. But maybe those nations will realize, that they have to engage in more equitable and fair trade, or we will won't play with them either.

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

We already have mutually beneficial trade with China

No one believes that. Everyone knows it is not true.

Business believes we do. They aren't happy that their previous agreements are coming back to bite them now though.

I dont' think business believe that. I think that they know that they are looking out for themselves while fucking their fellow Americans, and they tell themselves that that is ok, for various bullshit reasons.

 

[Paulie]

There will be people who will try to get more, and then an employer will try to hire someone else who’s much dumber and will accept their lower wage and some dumbass will accept it and inevitably bitch about it down the road that they don’t make enough.

 

[pknopp]

As has been pointed out many times, it's not the countries, it's the American business that want to exploit their cheap labor.

Countries where the people get paid very little can't afford to buy our products.

1. It is both. I support policy to combat both.

You can want it all you want, but we are not going to do it. We blame our problems on everything except for where it belongs. Wall Street/bankers/markets/corporations.

We blame people who want to better themselves for coming here rather than those inviting them here. We blame other countries for our business moving there to take advantage of their low wages. We come up with all kinds of excuses to invade other countries when it's nothing more than a way to boost the markets.

2. If China is incapable of mutually beneficial trade, then let US stop trading with them, or at least dial it back to what they can match.

As has been pointed out, that solves nothing. It simply moves the problem.

1. We might not do any of it. But my position stands, and I have defended it very well. I want Trade Policy that encourages US jobs and wages.

That's fine but that is no longer who we are.

2. YOU made the claim that the reason we don't have mutually beneficial trade with China is because they are not wealthy enough to balance US. I'm willing to deal with that. Trade could continue but at a level where it could be balanced. Why is that not at least a partial solution?

That would require cutting the throats of U.S. manufacturers in China and we aren't going to do that.

1. Trump ran and won on that issue, so apparently quite a lot of Americans ARE still that. Giving up is always an option, but we can give up later, after we at least try. Why would you not support US? Don't you want to see higher wages for your fellow Americans?

As I've pointed out many times, Trump is not going after the problem. No I do not support what Trump is doing. I've pointed out why what he is doing solves nothing.

You argue he might but I'm not interested in Trump's "mights".

2.YOu are looking for excuses to not support a policy that you know it good for America, because you don't like the President or the people supporting it. Does that about sum it up?

I've stated my thoughts.......if Trump ever does that I will support it.