U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems

[Missourian]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If they go to a voucher system, everyone can afford it. Demand will create good schools.

Louisiana like most states have some very good private schools and some piss poor ones. Not surprising the best schools usually have the highest tuition. They pick the best students who can afford their tuition and hire the best teachers. They avoid the problem students, those that have learning disabilities, severe emotional problems and delinquents leaving these students to the public schools whose budget is being cut to provide vouchers. These vouchers do not provide sufficient funds to go to the good schools. The end result is a two tier educational system, good schools for the wealthy and upper middle kids and crappy schools for the rest of the kids.

Louisiana is different from most states because it has always had a large number of private schools, mostly parochial. Thus there has been strong opposition to public schools and pressure to route money from public schools to private. Also Louisiana teacher unions are one of the weakest in the country. The results have been low budget and one of the worst public school systems in the nation. The voucher system only guarantees worst education in public schools.

Public schools also have a two tiered system...the schools where students get a quality education, and the ones where they don't.

 

[Missourian]

It's an experiment that liberals must stop...because it may work.

They'll use any excuse.

 

[Vox]

If a public school system does not accept all students, then what happens to those that are rejected?

you misunderstood( or, maybe I wasn't clear -my bad) - they can be accepted, they should not be forced to be mixed with the others. Remember there was a grading system for the students based on their ability to perform?

You bring up two issues.
Separating students into different classes based on their ability or achievement.
We've tried to do this for years and failed because the cost is huge. Imagine the cost of setting up classes for students with behavior problems, learning disabilities, and high achievers. There are not enough teachers or classrooms. There is no doubt, we would do a better job of educating our kids, but no one wants to pay for it.

I don't have to imagine - that is how it is done in other countries.

If the student does not perform on a certain level and can not achieve certain behavioral standards - they are not allowed to attend the same class ( very often even the same school) as the ones who pass the standards.

Grades:
Most all schools have grading systems. They just don't fail students, at least not as much as they use to, because the consequences outweigh the benefits. Students that are held back tend to dislike school, get into trouble and have a low self esteem. They never catch up and about half of them drop out of school.

I am sorry but this is total bullshit.

All those countries we are always comparing to that have much better scores and kids performing better - have the very strict grading system and nobody cares if the ones underperforming don't like the school, because the goal is to level UP the underperforming not to level DOWN the achievers in order to make the losers "feel good".

this libtard touchy-feely BS ruined public school system in the US.

Life is tough. If you are not fit for school - too bad. Don't take everyone else with you.

But that is the libtard agenda ( hidden) - dumb down EVERYBODY - uneducated masses are much more easy to maintain

 

[Baron]

Self reliance is a problem for the Democratic Party.

Dems hate people who provide for themselves, they need slaves of big govn't who asked for everything.

 

[Flopper]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

IT also means, reduced teachers union power.....that's the real reason the Left is so anti-voucher. At the end of the day, teacher union power ranks higher than quality of education.

It's not going to reduce the power of teacher unions in Louisiana since they are among the weakest in country.

 

[Flopper]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If the private system works, and the government subsidizes tuition for those who need it, where is the harm...

We want an education system that works...that's the goal.

Is the means really that important?

There is no harm in having private schools. Only when government takes money from public schools to support private schools is there a problem which is exactly what vouchers and other methods of funneling money to private schools do.

 

[Vox]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If the private system works, and the government subsidizes tuition for those who need it, where is the harm...

We want an education system that works...that's the goal.

Is the means really that important?

There is no harm in having private schools. Only when government takes money from public schools to support private schools is there a problem which is exactly what vouchers and other methods of funneling money to private schools do.

and if public school is not performing well - it should be extinct and the money given to the parents so they can use it as they feel like it.

 

[jgarden]

Translation: Eric Holder wants poor black kids to stay in shitty schools so they grow up to be poor black adults who keep voting Democrat.

U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems | NOLA.com

Like doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants or any other group of trained professional, there are only a limited number of trained teachers in Louisiana and America - no matter how you "rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic."

Where's the documented proof that handing out vouchers will actually improve the level of education?

 

[Trajan]

Translation: Eric Holder wants poor black kids to stay in shitty schools so they grow up to be poor black adults who keep voting Democrat.

U.S. government sues to block vouchers in some Louisiana school systems | NOLA.com

obama didn't give a shit when they submarined the DC school voucher system either, one or both of his kids goes to a school a few of those MINORITY kids went to as well, tough luck for those kids- let them eat the 59% grad. rate ( worst in the country for 2011 btw)....

 

[Trajan]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If the private system works, and the government subsidizes tuition for those who need it, where is the harm...

We want an education system that works...that's the goal.

Is the means really that important?

There is no harm in having private schools. Only when government takes money from public schools to support private schools is there a problem which is exactly what vouchers and other methods of funneling money to private schools do.

huh? if the kids doesn't go to the school why should they get the money for the head count....?


ahh but they do, never underestimate the power of the NEA and assorted crooks, the student is limited in what the district will allow to be taken, the benchmark I believe is 65%, so in affect the school gets 35% of the money for a student they don't have......

 

[Unkotare]

The end result is a two tier educational system, good schools for the wealthy and upper middle kids and crappy schools for the rest of the kids.

.

You mean exactly the way it is now with public schools?

 

[Missourian]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If the private system works, and the government subsidizes tuition for those who need it, where is the harm...

We want an education system that works...that's the goal.

Is the means really that important?

There is no harm in having private schools. Only when government takes money from public schools to support private schools is there a problem which is exactly what vouchers and other methods of funneling money to private schools do.

The government pays private institutions to do government work all the time.

 

[Trajan]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

the public school system in this country IS the roadblock for the better education of the kids.

It seems there is no other way to break down the shitty system except totally destroying it and starting all over.

Without teachers unions.

The problem is the voucher system only destroys the system but does not rebuild it.

right ok then so tell us who spends the most and what the results are comparatively?

 

[jgarden]

Company allegedly misled government about security clearance checks
June 27, 2013

Federal investigators have told lawmakers they have evidence that USIS, the contractor that screened Edward Snowden for his top-secret clearance, repeatedly misled the government about the thoroughness of its background checks, according to people familiar with the matter.

The alleged transgressions are so serious that a federal watchdog indicated he plans to recommend that the Office of Personnel Management, which oversees most background checks, end ties with USIS unless it can show it is performing responsibly, the people said .....

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-27/business/40234452_1_usis-inspector-general-background

- the contractor that screened Edward Snowden for his top-secret clearance

- repeatedly misled the government about the thoroughness of its background checks

- a federal watchdog indicated he plans to recommend ... end ties with USIS

Just another example of how the private sector can be entrusted to do things better!

 

[Flopper]

All those countries we are always comparing to that have much better scores and kids performing better - have the very strict grading system and nobody cares if the ones underperforming don't like the school, because the goal is to level UP the underperforming not to level DOWN the achievers in order to make the losers "feel good".

I suggest you take a look at South Korea which consistently out scores the US and is currently ranked number 1. They do not fail students but use grades to determine the need for additional remedial work and they certainly care about under-performing students, I would say much more so than we do.

I can only speak to schools that I have knowledge of, not all schools. The schools my grandkids attend and the two schools I have taught in definitely do not level Down as you say. If anything, the under performers are neglected. Teachers generally encourage parents to work with their kids but seldom are there any remedial classes available.

As I have said, there are tremendous differences in public schools in the US because of the degree local control and funding. In most countries, particular the ones that are very successful, there is strong central control such as in South Korea, Japan, and Finland.

Also the countries that consistently out perform the US have strong public school systems and only a small minority attend private schools.

 

[Vox]

All those countries we are always comparing to that have much better scores and kids performing better - have the very strict grading system and nobody cares if the ones underperforming don't like the school, because the goal is to level UP the underperforming not to level DOWN the achievers in order to make the losers "feel good".

I suggest you take a look at South Korea which consistently out scores the US and is currently ranked number 1. They do not fail students but use grades to determine the need for additional remedial work and they certainly care about under-performing students, I would say much more so than we do.

I can only speak to schools that I have knowledge of, not all schools. The schools my grandkids attend and the two schools I have taught in definitely do not level Down as you say. If anything, the under performers are neglected. Teachers generally encourage parents to work with their kids but seldom are there any remedial classes available.

As I have said, there are tremendous differences in public schools in the US because of the degree local control and funding. In most countries, particular the ones that are very successful, there is strong central control such as in South Korea, Japan, and Finland.

Also the countries that consistently out perform the US have strong public school systems and only a small minority attend private schools.

I don't have to look at South Korea or Japan, which both have such a different mindset that it is not applicable to the US.
I am myself from the country which outscores the US on almost everything and so do other European countries - and those can be applicable since the mentality is much more similar, than far Eastern.
And they do fail schoolchildren and they do shame them and yes - that how it works.

The central control and a uniformed curriculum has an impact - I agree with that. However, you can not compare small countries like Finland and South Korea to a behemot like us. Even japan, which is not a small country, can not be compared as well. Not only because of the size, but because of the uniformity of the population - all three are basically like one affluent suburbia in upstate NY

But we spend much more than all those countries you've named combined - we basically flush the money down the drain since our system is unaccountable ( exactly because the teachers unions).
and we are engaged in too much of the PC shit - but that is because of our litigious society, which is not even close in any of the countries you've mentioned or I know.

Parental responsibility and student responsibility for the work done is nevertheless the base of any success. And if nobody is failed - there is no responsibility whatsoever.
There is also no competitiveness in our system - nobody knows what grades the others have - and that is not good as well.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Japan and south Korea have populations that have a strong moral wanting to advance.

The black community is the opposite. That has to be installed into them.

 

[Vox]

Japan and south Korea have populations that have a strong moral wanting to advance.

The black community is the opposite. That has to be installed into them.

there is a lot more sub-communities in this country which do not have the goal to progress, because they don't have to on one hand or because they do not know what that will bring for them, on the other.

It is too different of a country to be compared to any small backyard all one ethnic group countries like Japan or South Korea.
Even Finland with several ethnicity is basically uniform, since all of the ethnic groups have been living there forever.

 

[Flopper]

All those countries we are always comparing to that have much better scores and kids performing better - have the very strict grading system and nobody cares if the ones underperforming don't like the school, because the goal is to level UP the underperforming not to level DOWN the achievers in order to make the losers "feel good".

I suggest you take a look at South Korea which consistently out scores the US and is currently ranked number 1. They do not fail students but use grades to determine the need for additional remedial work and they certainly care about under-performing students, I would say much more so than we do.

I can only speak to schools that I have knowledge of, not all schools. The schools my grandkids attend and the two schools I have taught in definitely do not level Down as you say. If anything, the under performers are neglected. Teachers generally encourage parents to work with their kids but seldom are there any remedial classes available.


As I have said, there are tremendous differences in public schools in the US because of the degree local control and funding. In most countries, particular the ones that are very successful, there is strong central control such as in South Korea, Japan, and Finland.

Also the countries that consistently out perform the US have strong public school systems and only a small minority attend private schools.

I don't have to look at South Korea or Japan, which both have such a different mindset that it is not applicable to the US.
I am myself from the country which outscores the US on almost everything and so do other European countries - and those can be applicable since the mentality is much more similar, than far Eastern.
And they do fail schoolchildren and they do shame them and yes - that how it works.

The central control and a uniformed curriculum has an impact - I agree with that. However, you can not compare small countries like Finland and South Korea to a behemot like us. Even japan, which is not a small country, can not be compared as well. Not only because of the size, but because of the uniformity of the population - all three are basically like one affluent suburbia in upstate NY

But we spend much more than all those countries you've named combined - we basically flush the money down the drain since our system is unaccountable ( exactly because the teachers unions).
and we are engaged in too much of the PC shit - but that is because of our litigious society, which is not even close in any of the countries you've mentioned or I know.

Parental responsibility and student responsibility for the work done is nevertheless the base of any success. And if nobody is failed - there is no responsibility whatsoever.
There is also no competitiveness in our system - nobody knows what grades the others have - and that is not good as well.

There is a huge amount of competitiveness in our system. It's called peer pressure which to kids can be a lot more important than the grades themselves.

In my grand kids elementary school they are graded and if they don't keep there grades up they will be dropped from the advanced program. In middle school, my granddaughter is graded on every subject. My grandson in the 10 grade is graded and they do retain students that fail. If he fails any subject or his grades for any semester fall below average, he loses his athletic eligibility. If he doesn't score high enough on his SAT, he won't get the college of his choice. I totally disagree with your idea that kids are not under pressure to succeed in school.

BTW Kids do know quite well who makes the good grades who doesn't.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

The purpose of the Louisiana voucher system is to destroy what remains of the the public school system and move the remainder of the students into private schools. This is a process that began in the 1960's when white parents moved their students into private schools to escape integration. Louisiana has consistently ranked 49th to 50th in their quality of public educations. I suspect that Louisiana will be the first state to abandon public education in favor of private schools and will probably provide some of the best education in the country, for those that can afford it.

If they go to a voucher system, everyone can afford it. Demand will create good schools.

Louisiana like most states have some very good private schools and some piss poor ones. Not surprising the best schools usually have the highest tuition. They pick the best students who can afford their tuition and hire the best teachers. They avoid the problem students, those that have learning disabilities, severe emotional problems and delinquents leaving these students to the public schools whose budget is being cut to provide vouchers. These vouchers do not provide sufficient funds to go to the good schools. The end result is a two tier educational system, good schools for the wealthy and upper middle kids and crappy schools for the rest of the kids.

Louisiana is different from most states because it has always had a large number of private schools, mostly parochial. Thus there has been strong opposition to public schools and pressure to route money from public schools to private. Also Louisiana teacher unions are one of the weakest in the country. The results have been low budget and one of the worst public school systems in the nation. The voucher system only guarantees worst education in public schools.

Nonsense. When there is a demand, it will be filled. The public schools act to inhibit education. Vouchers should end the failed experiment.

The reason the Louisiana public schools are the dregs is because they have no genuine standards.