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At least for the time being, you might recall Biden's shameful actions in Afghanistan, where he ordered the complete pullout of military in the middle of the night, and did not so much as whisper this intention to our Nato allies!If Ukraine had jointed NATO, it might have weaken the alliance but one thing is for sure, Putin's invasion of the Ukraine has certainly strengthen it.
www.usmessageboard.com
It's a bit too lake to take NATO off the table. Putin wants all of Ukraine.Putin is not our primary foe. Russia is no longer a Communist country. Russia‘s GDP is about the same as Australia’s.
We should focus on our primary foe, the CCP.
We should seek a compromise regarding Ukraine. Both Russia and the US can accept a neutral and independent Ukraine. Let’s stop talking about NATO membership for Ukraine and end this disastrous war.
Can we stop pushing Russia into the arms of the CCP?
Biden and Zelensky don’t need help marching us into WW III.
I think the Russia invasion of Ukraine drove home the idea that NATO is the only thing that stands between Europeans and a Russian invasion and domination.At least for the time being, you might recall Biden's shameful actions in Afghanistan, where he ordered the complete pullout of military in the middle of the night, and did not so much as whisper this intention to our Nato allies!
I would agree with that, I would also caution folks to keep in mind who is acting as the president of the United States, that psychopath does not work for Nato anymore than its does the American people, that psychopath works for China, silicon valley, and most especially himself!I think the Russia invasion of Ukraine drove home the idea that NATO is the only thing that stands between Europeans and a Russian invasion and domination.
I see no parallel. Ukraine has no defense treaty with NATO or anyone else. An attack on Taiwan would involve the US directly per the terms of the Sino-American Mutual Defense Treat.And Xi is watching this as he has designs on Tiwan....Biden will probably give that up as well...Disgraceful....
Well, now you have gone and done it.I think the Russia invasion of Ukraine drove home the idea that NATO is the only thing that stands between Europeans and a Russian invasion and domination.
Nor is Turkey or Greece who have been members of NATO since 1952Ukraine is nowhere close to the North Atlantic.
Should Mexico join a military alliance with China?
You nip this crap of PUtting invading smaller countries in order to avoid WW3. Allowing him to attack smaller countries such as Hitler did, is how WW2 started.I guess people like you need to start WW III to prove your masculinity.
That poor little Ukraine has an army of 170,000 about 20,000 short of the Russian force but more that either Germany or Poland. While Russia will certain win the war if they persevere, they have made little progress in last 2 weeks, far less than expected. They already had Crimea and insurgents controlled Donetsk before the Russians entered.Well, now you have gone and done it.
You have posted the most preposterous thing I have read today.
I am not sure how you came up with that. Are you aware of the Russian GDP? Do you have any idea how weak they are? They seem to be having a hard time with little old weak Ukraine. Can you even imagine them taking on someone just a little stronger, like say Poland or Germany? Alone. . . much less the whole of NATO?
Russia doesn't have the ability to dominate a two bit second world economy, much less a first world economy like Germany or France.
I have no idea why you believe NATO is even needed.
I don't think Russia could even win a war against Finland on it's own anymore w/o the use of nukes. . and if it did unleash those? It would feel the wraith of every nation on Earth.
graphics.reuters.com
Who in the West wanted the Cold War back?Russia dismantled the soviet union, freed all the soviet satellite states and abolished the Warsaw Pact.
They extended an olive branch to the West and what they got in return?
How did the West reciprocate?
Vindictiveness, Cold War revanchism, Nato expansion (instead of dismantlement).
People should be careful what they wish for.
The West wanted the Cold War back so bad it finally got its wish.
Forget about Ukraine, Sweden and Finland joining Nato.
Those 3 nations already got the memo:
From now on, the price of joining hostile military alliances is dying like cattle under russian bombs.
I respect your opinion. you are certainly entitled to it. But, I do not share it. Nor do I believe, do most folks bleev such a foolish narrative. No way could Russia mobilize for such an offensive. Anymore than the US could get it's population mobilized to fight for/over Ukraine or Taiwan. It won't ever happen.That poor little Ukraine has an army of 170,000 about 20,000 short of the Russian force but more that either Germany or Poland. While Russia will certain win the war if they persevere, they have made little progress in last 2 weeks, far less than expected. They already had Crimea and insurgents controlled Donetsk before the Russians entered.
There is no way Poland or Germany could stand up against the full military might of Russia without NATO. The Ukraine invasion army was less than 20% of the active duty Russian army. The Russian army has 900,000 troops on active duty and 2 million reservists. The Russian Air Force is second only to the US. in strike power. And of course there is the nuclear forces with more nuclear weapons than any other country.
NATO could certainly stop an invasion of either Germany or Poland. With 65,000 US on duty in NATO 40,000 plus German and Polish forces and 3.5 million reservist and a stronger air response than Russia. Of course this is all hypothetically nonsense because such an attack would go nuclear very fast.
Russia invades Ukraine
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine began with attacks by land, sea and air
NATO will not attack Russia for same reason Russia will not attack NATO. . . and now you know why Russia is so upset and sees NATO as a threat. What is to say, some day, NATO doesn't just up and define Russia as a "threat," and start a "good offense," and a pre-emptive war? That is all I was posting to. . . You can spin those operations how ever you see fit, that is your right, and your prerogative, I do not deny you that, but those are the simple facts, NATO is NOT just a defensive entity, this is recorded history. SO? When folks whine about, "what does Russia have to be afraid of?"
Well? There you go, you said it yourself. If NATO one day up and defines Russia as a threat, what better staging area then. . . Ukraine? This is the thing that keeps, not only Putin awake at night, but all those in the Duma, that forced him and Lavrov to act. Most of the low IQ, low informed and highly propagandized readers in the west think it is this, "Hitleresque" Putin, that decided to act. .
When in fact, it was the Russian state Duma that kept getting requests for help from the Dombas regions, and passed that recognition back on February 15. I remember reading some article from Reuters that Putin and Lavrov put them off, in favor of more negotiations with the West, knowing what the implications of recognition and moving troops in would mean. In the end, they had stake holders to please as well. Just like our politicians do.
So? Just as the west claims "humanitarian reasons," so too, they claim the same. But in the end, we need to ask of all these oligarchs, cui bono?
Scholz in Moscow: Recognition of 'LPR/DPR' could be political catastrophe
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has said that Russia's recognition of "Donetsk People's Republic" and "Luhansk People's Republic" as independent entities could be a political catastrophe, according to an Ukrinform correspondent. — Ukrinform.www.ukrinform.net
Official recognition of 'L/DPR' to constitute additional territorial claims on Ukraine from Russia – Maasikas
If Russia officially recognizes the so-called "L/DPR, " the Russian side will have additional territorial claims on Ukraine, Head of the EU Delegation to Ukraine Matti Maasikas has said.en.interfax.com.ua
Ukrainian delegation initiates extraordinary consultations in TCG in connection with decision of Russia's Duma on so-called 'LPR/DPR'
The Ukrainian delegation in the Trilateral Contact Group (TCG) has appealed to the OSCE representative in the TCG with an initiative to urgently convene extraordinary consultations of the Group in connection with the decision of the Russian State Duma concerning the possible recognition of the...
Recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics by Russia
". . President Putin, alongside Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik, signs decrees recognizing the independence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics on 21 February 2022.
On 21 January 2022, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation announced on Pravda that its deputies would introduce a non-binding resolution in the State Duma to ask President Putin to officially recognize the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic.[286][287] The resolution was adopted by the State Duma on 15 February 2022 in a 351–16 vote, with one abstention; it was supported by United Russia, the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, A Just Russia - For Truth and the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, but was opposed by the New People party.[288][289]
On 21 February, the leaders of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics, respectively Denis Pushilin and Leonid Pasechnik, requested that President Putin officially recognize the republics' independence; both leaders also proposed signing a treaty on friendship and cooperation with Russia, including on military cooperation.[290] Concluding the extraordinary session of the Security Council of Russia held on that day, Putin said that the decision on recognition thereof would be taken that day.[291] The request was endorsed by the minister of defence Sergey Shoygu,[292] while the prime minister Mikhail Mishustin said the government had been laying the groundwork for such move for "many months already".[293] Later that day, Putin signed decrees on recognition of the republics; additionally, treaties "on friendship, co-operation and mutual assistance" between Russia and the republics were inked.[294]
Prior to the signing ceremony at the Grand Kremlin Palace, Putin's address to Russian citizens was made public, in which he stated, among other things, that "modern Ukraine was entirely created by Russia, more precisely, Bolshevik, communist Russia", and specifically blaming Vladimir Lenin for the separation,[295] adding that admission of Ukraine to NATO was "a foregone conclusion", that Moscow could not afford to ignore the threat of a nuclear-armed Ukraine, and he demanded that "those who seized and retain[ed] power in Kiev ... immediately cease hostilities", or face consequences.[296][297][298] With reference to the legally mandated decommunization in Ukraine that had begun in Ukraine in 2015, Putin said: "You want decommunisation? That suits us fine. But don't stop halfway. We're ready to show Ukraine what real decommunisation means for Ukraine."[298][299] The recognition decision was promptly condemned by the president of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen and the president of the European Council Charles Michel in identical statements on Twitter.[300][301]. . "
2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Of course Russia would not attack NATO any more attack the US. Neither Russia nor the US wants a nuclear exchange. In the cold war the vailed threat of nuclear war was used to achieve diplomatic goals. We are beginning to see that now, Putin putting his nuclear forces on alert, warning that the sanctions are tantamount to a declaration of war and multiple threats directed at NATO and the US not to interfere with his invasions. So far the West has been unwilling to play the game. These threats are in themselves dangerous, for example.I respect your opinion. you are certainly entitled to it. But, I do not share it. Nor do I believe, do most folks bleev such a foolish narrative. No way could Russia mobilize for such an offensive. Anymore than the US could get it's population mobilized to fight for/over Ukraine or Taiwan. It won't ever happen.
Like the U.S., Russia has many security responsibilities and prior engagements all over the world, and I just can't see them pulling out all of those forces to focus their full strength on a sustained push against such targets.
Besides, this isn't the nineteenth or twentieth centuries anymore. I see no signs of Russia having any designs or anything to gain from such an idiotic or suicidal move. There isn't the political or civilian will to mobilize for such an attempt on Europe. Anyone that believes such nonsense has been completely propagandized.
This is why we should not play cold war games, where one miscalculation can end it all.
+ NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
+ NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
+ Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
+ the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
+ the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)
Intermediate range missiles can range Moscow from the UK. Soviet missiles can hit any target in Europe from Russian territory. Putin isn’t afraid of NATO missiles, he’s afraid of having a prosperous democracy that used to be part of the USSR on his border that gives his population something to compare their standard of living to.Russia is paranoid about the Ukrainian government, which is very pro western, allowing the EU orNATO or the U.S. putting medium range missiles on Ukraine land.
That if Ukraine became a NATO member, they could and would put nuclear missiles basically on Russia's border.
Russia wouldn't stand for that and now you're talking WW3
NATO members, NOT NATO. There is a difference.That’s not actually true. Starting in the 90s with Bosnia, using some pretty thin pretext, NATO has gotten involved in a number of conflicts well outside NATO countries.
